China Corona Virus Outbreak

[bloowolf]

old tech is proven safe coz it's the way vaccines have been made for more than 100 yrs

kaya mas effective mga spike-oriented vaccines coz concentrated lang sa spike ang antibodies gagawin ng katawan

ang inactivated whole virus vaccines iba't ibang antibodies ang gagawin and depending on how much vaccine you got

remember it's inactivated virus -- those will not multiply

so kung ano dami ng virus sa injection, that's all your immune system will see

ang mRNA vaccine it sends instructions into you cells to manufacture spike

as long as the mRNA doesn't degrade yet, it will keep working, your cells will keep making spikes

kaya very effective -- madami eh



yes if you're not exposed to a lot of virus, the protection should be better

If I may Uls, traditional or conventional vaccines are either inactivated or killed and attenuated or weakened live virus. Yung Sinovac contains inactivated fragments of the virus since no one wants to risk using an attenuated virus to develop a Covid vaccine obviously. The immune response doesn’t depend on the amount of virus in the vaccine alone. Conventional vaccines also contain, aside from the killed viral particles, something they call an adjuvant. This is a substance that will enhance the immune response. As I know of, the type of adjuvant used by the manufacturers are usually trade secrets since the success of the vaccine (ergo the manufacturer) will depend on how effective the vaccine is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[shadow]

Wala yan. They changed guidelines like it's nothing.

Kaya wala na kwenta yun last year dahil lahat iniba na nila instead na mag stick sila kung ano na yun last year binabago nila. Kasing gulo ng utak nila yun ginagawa nila.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shadow]

If I may Uls, traditional or conventional vaccines are either inactivated or killed and attenuated or weakened live virus. Yung Sinovac contains inactivated fragments of the virus since no one wants to risk using an attenuated virus to develop a Covid vaccine obviously. The immune response doesn’t depend on the amount of virus in the vaccine alone. Conventional vaccines also contain, aside from the killed viral particles, something they call an adjuvant. This is a substance that will enhance the immune response. As I know of, the type of adjuvant used by the manufacturers are usually trade secrets since the success of the vaccine (ergo the manufacturer) will depend on how effective the vaccine is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So dapat mas mataas efficacy ng mga traditional vaccine dahil mismong virus ang ginamit or part ng virus


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ray_noel]

inactivated virus eh

the virus contained in the vaccine can no longer enter cells and make copies

old tech is proven safe coz it's the way vaccines have been made for more than 100 yrs

kaya mas effective mga spike-oriented vaccines coz concentrated lang sa spike ang antibodies gagawin ng katawan

ang inactivated whole virus vaccines iba't ibang antibodies ang gagawin and depending on how much vaccine you got

remember it's inactivated virus -- those will not multiply

so kung ano dami ng virus sa injection, that's all your immune system will see

ang mRNA vaccine it sends instructions into you cells to manufacture spike

as long as the mRNA doesn't degrade yet, it will keep working, your cells will keep making spikes

kaya very effective -- madami eh

In terms of antibodies produced:
Spike antibodies(astra)
Spike oriented vaccine = quality + quantity (depends on the dosage)
50%-76% effectivity

Whole virus antibodies (pfizer/moderna)
mRNA = quality + quantity (as long as mRNA is present)+can enter cells level
96% effectivity

Whole virus antibodies (sinovac)
Inactivated whole virus = quality + quantity (depends on the dosage)+can not enter cells level
80%-90% TBC effectivity rate

Is that partially correct bruh? We know hindi tayo mga expert pero just wanted to know kung ano yung percentage effectivity when translate to laymans term... for me... hehehe...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[uls]

If I may Uls, traditional or conventional vaccines are either inactivated or killed and attenuated or weakened live virus. Yung Sinovac contains inactivated fragments of the virus since no one wants to risk using an attenuated virus to develop a Covid vaccine obviously. The immune response doesn’t depend on the amount of virus in the vaccine alone. Conventional vaccines also contain, aside from the killed viral particles, something they call an adjuvant. This is a substance that will enhance the immune response. As I know of, the type of adjuvant used by the manufacturers are usually trade secrets since the success of the vaccine (ergo the manufacturer) will depend on how effective the vaccine is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sinovac's vaccine is inactivated whole virus, not viral fragments

How the Sinovac Covid-19 Vaccine Works - The New York Times

To create CoronaVac, the Sinovac researchers started by obtaining samples of the coronavirus from patients in China, Britain, Italy, Spain and Switzerland. One sample from China eventually served as the basis for the vaccine.

The researchers grew large stocks of the coronavirus in monkey kidney cells. Then they doused the viruses with a chemical called beta-propiolactone. The compound disabled the coronaviruses by bonding to their genes. The inactivated coronaviruses could no longer replicate. But their proteins, including spike, remained intact.

adjuvant

The researchers then drew off the inactivated viruses and mixed them with a tiny amount of an aluminum-based compound called an adjuvant. Adjuvants stimulate the immune system to boost its response to a vaccine.

old fashioned

Inactivated viruses have been used for over a century. Jonas Salk used them to create his polio vaccine in the 1950s, and they’re the bases for vaccines against other diseases including rabies and hepatitis A.

[shadow]

Sinovac's vaccines is inactivated whole virus, not viral fragments

How the Sinovac Covid-19 Vaccine Works - The New York Times



adjuvant



old fashioned

Eh di dapat mas mataas efficacy dahil yun actual.na kalaban ang pina meet sa immune system


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[uls]

In terms of antibodies produced:
Spike antibodies(astra)
Spike oriented vaccine = quality + quantity (depends on the dosage)
50%-76% effectivity

Whole virus antibodies (pfizer/moderna)
mRNA = quality + quantity (as long as mRNA is present)+can enter cells level
96% effectivity

Whole virus antibodies (sinovac)
Inactivated whole virus = quality + quantity (depends on the dosage)+can not enter cells level
80%-90% TBC effectivity rate

Is that partially correct bruh? We know hindi tayo mga expert pero just wanted to know kung ano yung percentage effectivity when translate to laymans term... for me... hehehe...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sir paano naging whole virus antibodies ang pfizer/moderna

spike lang yun

[shadow]

So basically walang changes sa MECQ st least accepting doon sa lumabas na guidelines sa viber group.

50% capacity lang mga allowed na industries, stay home pa rin then meron mga public transport. Curfew depende sa LGU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bloowolf]

So dapat mas mataas efficacy ng mga traditional vaccine dahil mismong virus ang ginamit or part ng virus


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes & no, haha. Yung traditional dependent sa immune reponse nung tao, like an allergic reaction. Allergies are a response to a foreign invader (antigen). It simply means your body is sensitized to a certain antigen or allergen sa allergic reaction. Sa traditional vaccine, your body is sensitized to the virus (antigen). So, efficacy will also depend on how robust your immune system is. Yung mRNA doesn’t contain any viral particles. Para syang genetically modified kasi the mRNA are injected to teach the body to produce antibodies against the spike protein & like what uls said, the length of protection also varies. But since vaccines for covid are new, si batman lang nakaka alam kung gaano katagal mag last ang protection.
This is the gist of what I can recall.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[uls]

Eh di dapat mas mataas efficacy dahil yun actual.na kalaban ang pina meet sa immune system


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

iba't ibang antibodies ang naproduce many of them not very useful

parang sa convalescent plasma

konte ang antibodies sa convalescent plasma ang meron talaga neutralzing ability

in theory ang advantage nito pag nahawaan ka ng new variant, kahit hindi makilala ng spike antibodies ang spike ng bagong variant, maari may ibang antibodies na mag attach sa ibang parts ng virus na hindi nagbago

[shadow]

iba't ibang antibodies ang naproduce many of them not very useful

parang sa convalescent plasma

konte ang antibodies sa convalescent plasma ang meron talaga neutralzing ability

in theory ang advantage nito pag nahawaan ka ng new variant, kahit hindi makilala ng spike antibodies ang spike ng bagong variant, maari may ibang antibodies na mag attach sa ibang parts ng virus na hindi nagbago

Pero lahat ng nabakunahan mag produce ng antibodies? Baka kasi wala eh sayang lang.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ray_noel]

Sir paano naging whole virus antibodies ang pfizer/moderna

spike lang yun

What i mean for whole virus antibodies is hindi siya specific for spikes only like astra?

Once mRNA develop antibodies it’s for the whole virus (spike+envelope+RNA)....

Or mali lang pagka intindi ko when these vaccines develop antibodies...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bloowolf]

Pero lahat ng nabakunahan mag produce ng antibodies? Baka kasi wala eh sayang lang.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Again, sa pagkaka alam ko, hindi 100% kasi depende rin dun sa tao. Kung immune compromised sya, halimbawa cancer patient na naka chemo, mahina immune system nya at questionable pa response nya sa vaccine.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[uls]

since your immune system is exposed to a whole virus, it sees more than the spike so you not only develop antibodies to the spike, baka may antibodies ka din to the nucleocapsid or some other part

that's something spike-oriented vaccines won't give you

thing is the most useful antibodies are the spike antibodies

spike oriented vaccines will give you lots of that

kaya mas effective

[bloowolf]

What i mean for whole virus antibodies is hindi siya specific for spikes only like astra?

Once mRNA develop antibodies it’s for the whole virus (spike+envelope+RNA)....

Or mali lang pagka intindi ko when these vaccines develop antibodies...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yung nabasa ko about Sputnik (Gamaleya), ang target nila yung spike protein, not the whole virus.
Actually, mukhang maganda (on paper) yung Sputnik. At ang Russia magaling gumawa ng bakuna.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[uls]

What i mean for whole virus antibodies is hindi siya specific for spikes only like astra?

Once mRNA develop antibodies it’s for the whole virus (spike+envelope+RNA)....

Or mali lang pagka intindi ko when these vaccines develop antibodies...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pfizer and moderna's vaccines contain instructions to make the SPIKE ONLY

so antibodies produced are spike only antibodies

got it?

[uls]

and it's not the mRNA that makes antibodies

the mRNA tell your cells to make the spike

the spike is then released from the cells and the immune system sees it and makes antibodies

[uls]

sputnik, j&j, astra all the same adenoviral vector

AZN uses chimpanzee adenovirus

J&J uses adenovirus #26

Sputnik uses 2 adenoviruses

all of them carry genetic instructions to make SARSCOV2 spike

the adenovirus is only delivery vehicle

[dr. d]

from what i understand,
the advantage of these nucleic acid-based vaccines,
is the relative ease of manufacturing large amounts of vaccine in a shorter period of time, compared to the traditional vaccine-making methods employing larger virus structures.

while the specific molecular mechanisms of how the vaccine works is known,
the predicted intensity, effectiveness, and universality of their action,
remains to be seen.

[bloowolf]

Actually, you guys know more about these vaccines than most doctors I know. Mga doktor na kilala ko, pag tinatanong namin, they just give a short explanation or say “basta importante mabakunahan” [emoji6]
But, I think these things will matter most when we have the luxury to choose (&pay for it) in the future.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk