I don't think electric cars will ever replace internal combustion engines

**yebo** · September 22nd, 2017 05:20 PM

yung submarine oo pwede. pero naman, good for 2-3 days lang and only at speeds a fraction of what it can do when running on diesels. saka ano ang cargo ng diesel-electric submarine? 40-50 guys and maybe 18-24 torpedoes. sabi nga ng mga ss guys na nakasama ko (they work mostly as electronic tech on the rig) natutulog sila sa ibabaw ng torpedo kasi wala silang quarters. sabit lang ng hammock o latag ng mattress. nuclear subs pa yun e di lalo na pag diesel-electric sub mas tipid sa weight.

**MR_BIG18** · September 22nd, 2017 11:20 PM

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**niky** · September 25th, 2017 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by yebo

pero renewables are carbon neutral. it does not add more carbon to the atmosphere as what the plants it came from absorbed from the air.

ships? yeah no way. mas malaki/mabigat pa battery kesa sa cargo.

planes? again, the weight of batteries and motors. also those turbines are very reliable. have not heard of any turbine engines on planes giving up in mid flight for the longest time. and you want to replace them with electric? how many kw is one 777 engine? na google ko na, 110,000 hp. HOW BIG AND HOW HEAVY DO YOU THINK A 110,000 HP ELECTRIC MOTOR IS? naaaaaah, it won't fly. baka ni hindi gumalaw yan ng walang humihila hahaha!

Hehe.

I've seen some demo flights of electric planes.

A passenger carrying electric is possible... but size, range and speed will be much lower than we're used to... and the battery packs will be horrendously heavy barring some major breakthrough in battery tech.

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EVs are a possibility, but I think we will need a paradigm shift to occur for the EV ecosystem to work. We're just too spoiled by what we get with gasoline that it raises the bar too high for the current EV state of the art. Not that EVs cannot perform as well as gas cars. It's just that they cost a hell of a lot more for the same "performance".

And no, don't cite Tesla. When you're talking luxury sports cars, a lot of what's in the price is not down to the actual cost of the vehicle. Bring it down to the mass market level, and an EV is still around twice the price of a comparable "family" car (Nissan Leaf).

**Vodka** · September 25th, 2017 04:56 PM

yep airbus' e-fan is already flying and they're already building the e-fan X which has like 10x the power. but of course battery tech has to improve in order to get to A380 capacities

but as i said short-haul is already on the horizon. imagine not having to do the usual servicing that you have to do so often on conventional aircraft engines

as for electric car costs, they just keep going down. the physics certainly allows them to get cheap so there's no "brick wall" here. it's just a matter of developing the tech and leveraging economies of scale. in fact the car i'll pick up tomorrow would probably be my last combustion engine car

**ice15** · September 25th, 2017 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by uls

the generators that power the electric motors that make the ships go run on carbon fuel

Yes, but electric generation + electric motor combination is more efficient and its a start.

Engineers on these types of engines are well paid in the market.

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**ice15** · September 25th, 2017 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by uls

let me rephrase this:

ocean freight -- those ships that carry container vans from port to port, you gonna put Li-ion batteries and electric motors on them?

The Prius like vessels I mentioned are Pure Car Carriers. Owned by a Japanese company presently trading in Europe. Since they don't have regenerative braking, they use solar panels.

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**ice15** · September 25th, 2017 08:49 PM

Back to pure electric cars (like Tesla and Leaf)

Palagi nilang nababanggit yung distance na kaya nung car.

Gaano kaya tatagal yung battery nya in traffic with A/C, radio, navigation and gadgets charging...

I've been doing some research on electric A/C for VW Beetle, and ang lakas nya sa battery...

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**Vodka** · September 25th, 2017 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by ice15

Back to pure electric cars (like Tesla and Leaf)

Palagi nilang nababanggit yung distance na kaya nung car.

Gaano kaya tatagal yung battery nya in traffic with A/C, radio, navigation and gadgets charging...

I've been doing some research on electric A/C for VW Beetle, and ang lakas nya sa battery...

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well car a/c needs to be more powerful than a small room a/c. like i have in front of me a 0.75 hp a/c. a subcompact would probably be 3hp or about 2.2kw

so suppose at 50% duty cycle a 1.1 kilowatt-hour battery pack will run the a/c for 1 hour. but how big is a 1.1kwh battery pack?

well are you familiar w/ those small 18650 lithium-ion cells? like for vapes? the higher capacity ones have about 12wh per cell. so 1100/12 = 92 cells. that's smaller than a loaf of bread

**yebo** · September 25th, 2017 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Vodka

well car a/c needs to be more powerful than a small room a/c. like i have in front of me a 0.75 hp a/c. a subcompact would probably be 3hp or about 2.2kw

so suppose at 50% duty cycle a 1.1 kilowatt-hour battery pack will run the a/c for 1 hour. but how big is a 1.1kwh battery pack?

well are you familiar w/ those small 18650 lithium-ion cells? like for vapes? the higher capacity ones have about 12wh per cell. so 1100/12 = 92 cells. that's smaller than a loaf of bread

those 18650 batteries don't last long. maybe 300 discharge cycles, even less. even those "1000 cycles" batteries don't last as promised. and at the end of their lives they have something like 30-40% performance as when new. what will be the acceptable performance degradation for a ship? an aircraft? that is one big expense replacing batteries. and one helluva land fill.

**Vodka** · September 25th, 2017 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by yebo

those 18650 batteries don't last long. maybe 300 discharge cycles, even less. even those "1000 cycles" batteries don't last as promised. and at the end of their lives they have something like 30-40% performance as when new. what will be the acceptable performance degradation for a ship? an aircraft? that is one big expense replacing batteries. and one helluva land fill.

you need to get up to date w/ battery tech. look up "NCA" chemistry li-ion. tesla uses commodity panasonic "NCA" 18650 cells ;) 8-year warranty. projected life, over 10yrs. after which they could be used as stationary storage.

i have no doubt they'd last that long coz i have here some 2009 production panasonic NCA cells that were 2900mah new. now after nearly 10yrs a few of them are still exceeding 2900mah

you just have to limit the exposure of the cells to BOTH temperature and voltage extremes. that means not sitting for a long time near 4.20v and 2.5v (full and empty, respectively) at elevated temperatures. if you do this you could cycle thousands of times and tesla drivers are already doing that now