Are we more corrupt than other nationalities?

[cardo]

hi kokonat... I dont mean to put you in a spotlight or anything ...

We are no more inclined to be corrupt than any other person in this planet. Corruption, or doing bad things in general, is rampant and widespread in the Philippines only because the society tolerates it.

so in the philippines, corruption is a way of life? like culture?

is it already part of our culture?

Put a Filipino in a country that has no tolerance for bad behaviour and what does he do? Most likely he'll be a model of good behaviour, following rules like most everyone in that country.

so there is the discipline part of dealing with corruption...??? some have the discipline not to do it or turn it off ...

its hard isnt it... is it discipline or culture? give me your inputs and opinion guys...

(I am having the same discussion with a friend about filipinos and their unique ugali but on a different topic )

[KoKoNAT]

hi kokonat... I dont mean to put you in a spotlight or anything ...

so in the philippines, corruption is a way of life? like culture?

is it already part of our culture?

so there is the discipline part of dealing with corruption...??? some have the discipline not to do it or turn it off ...

its hard isnt it... is it discipline or culture? give me your inputs and opinion guys...

(I am having the same discussion with a friend about filipinos and their unique ugali but on a different topic )

Is ok but just to clear things up, the post I made was in response to the original thread starter. I haven't read your response until after I posted mine which was to dispel the fact a person can be judged corrupt simply because of his race.

Your question: 'Is it discipline or culture?' now denotes on what is the cause of a person being corrupt.

Is it discipline?

Implies that the cause is the person himself. That due to his lack of discipline that he became corrupt. You can also say that the person feels he has no accountability on his actions and/or has little or no regard for any law or moral code in the society he lives in. Sounds familiar?

Is it culture?

Implies that the cause is the environment where the person lives in. It's a case of 'I'm-doing-it-because-everyone-else-is-doing-it.' An example would be a person doing an illegal counterflow because every other car was doing it.

So what is it?

In my opinion, it is the person, and only him, that is to blame. Because blaming culture is a coward's way of justifying any wrongdoing by blaming anyone and everthing else except himself. Because ultimately when you get down to the very core, you can always do the right thing even in a lawless environment. A corrupt person just chooses not to.

[5Speed]

Is ok but just to clear things up, the post I made was in response to the original thread starter. I haven't read your response until after I posted mine which was to dispel the fact a person can be judged corrupt simply because of his race.

Your question: 'Is it discipline or culture?' now denotes on what is the cause of a person being corrupt.

Is it discipline?

Implies that the cause is the person himself. That due to his lack of discipline that he became corrupt. You can also say that the person feels he has no accountability on his actions and/or has little or no regard for any law or moral code in the society he lives in. Sounds familiar?

Is it culture?

Implies that the cause is the environment where the person lives in. It's a case of 'I'm-doing-it-because-everyone-else-is-doing-it.' An example would be a person doing an illegal counterflow because every other car was doing it.

So what is it?

In my opinion, it is the person, and only him, that is to blame. Because blaming culture is a coward's way of justifying any wrongdoing by blaming anyone and everthing else except himself. Because ultimately when you get down to the very core, you can always do the right thing even in a lawless environment. A corrupt person just chooses not to.

this is a nice answer.....especially the last paragraph

[cardo]

Corruption... Is it culture or discipline?

[imprezawrxsti]

Corruption... Is it culture or discipline?

Sa opinyon ko lang, ang disiplina ang magbibigay ng magandang kahulugan at kabuuan sa isang kultura. Napaka importante ito lalong lalo na sa mga susunod na henerasyon na syang makakapagtuwid ng kasalukuyang kabuktutan at kamalian ng isang kultura.

[badkuk]

pakiramdam ko it's a foul mix of poverty and moral degradation.

[uls]

Excerpt from the screenplay of the movie Syriana:

Corruption charges. Corruption? Corruption ain't nothing more than government intrusion into market efficiencies in the form of regulation. That's Milton Friedman. He got a goddam Nobel prize. We have laws against it precisely so we can get away with it. Corruption is our protection. Corruption is what keeps us safe and warm. Corruption is why you and I are here in the white-hot center of things instead of fighting each other for scraps of meat out there in the streets. Corruption... is how we win.

Dalton to Bennett

[oldblue]

Excerpt from the screenplay of the movie Syriana:

Corruption charges. Corruption? Corruption ain't nothing more than government intrusion into market efficiencies in the form of regulation. That's Milton Friedman. He got a goddam Nobel prize. We have laws against it precisely so we can get away with it. Corruption is our protection. Corruption is what keeps us safe and warm. Corruption is why you and I are here in the white-hot center of things instead of fighting each other for scraps of meat out there in the streets. Corruption... is how we win.

Dalton to Bennett

nice quote. when I was younger, I was an idealist just like any teenage student. by the book, by the rules, by the norms. now, after experiencing fighting/dealing with a former boss, a former company, former business associates, bureaucracy and competitors. I'm beginning to agree with this quote hehehe

idealists/moralists/extremists -> they're just invented by individuals who are too lazy to socialize and to realize that each person has some unique characteristic. when people compromise for a goal, that is comparable to corruption bec. you are corrupting another person to change his views or his ideals.

to me, that's how our world works. there's no escaping it. being idealistic is just a stage in life. if you remain idealistic until you're over 40, then all you have is discontent. whether we like it or not, to achieve something in this world, you need to deal with people.

[redorange]

nice quote. when I was younger, I was an idealist just like any teenage student. by the book, by the rules, by the norms. now, after experiencing fighting/dealing with a former boss, a former company, former business associates, bureaucracy and competitors. I'm beginning to agree with this quote hehehe

idealists/moralists/extremists -> they're just invented by individuals who are too lazy to socialize and to realize that each person has some unique characteristic. when people compromise for a goal, that is comparable to corruption bec. you are corrupting another person to change his views or his ideals.

to me, that's how our world works. there's no escaping it. being idealistic is just a stage in life. if you remain idealistic until you're over 40, then all you have is discontent. whether we like it or not, to achieve something in this world, you need to deal with people.

So you're saying if you can't beat them join them ?

[uls]

Behind every great wealth there is a crime.

[nicolodeon]

'Been to a lot of places due to my work. All I can say is that if I based it on my experiences and in the papers/documents/publications I read, the only place in the world where man had set foot on that has practically zero corruption is at the heart of Antartica - because no one lives there; not unless you count the moon.

If if any of you are up to some "light reading" on corruption reaseach, go here or here.

[van_wilder]

are we corrupt because we are poor? or are we poor because we are corrupt?


hehehehe...


its like asking "do models drink evian because they are models? or are they models because they drink evian?"

[bender]

are we corrupt because we are poor? or are we poor because we are corrupt?

Our country's history can answer that question. Our country's economy was in better shape than Japan after World War II, South Korea after the Korean War, Vietnam after the Vietnam War. Did Japan and Korea remain poor? Vietnam is still poor but i don't think that they will remain that way for long.
Does corruption exist in those countries? Of course it does. However, the key point here is in the quote i got from the article which states that "A society where most people are doing something useful has a good chance of being rich; a society full of corruption will be poor."
Why? Because if the most members of a society are doing something useful, eventually the majority will benefit and progress rather than stagnation will result. If most members of a society practice corruption, they will only seek to protect their own interests over that of others, thereby encouraging self serving behavior that limits the opportunites for growth and improvement to a selected few.

[nicolodeon]

Vietnam is still poor but i don't think that they will remain that way for long.

Yes, there are facts to support this. I've been to Vietnam several times. Based on what I saw and the studies and financial analysis that I've read, Vietnam would most probably surpass the Philippines in ten years time - maybe even less.

[bender]

The article does not bring up the question of race as a country like ours is made up of different races. The study does not distinguish between the different races that make up that country's diplomat core. However, the study is reflective of the values and norms of that country's society.

[OTO]

The thing with blaming the individual would be to assume that the individual has true individuality. Pinoys are generally known not to cause conflict and those who do are often ostrasized for not going with the "group think".

Do you smoke? How did you get started? Did you know smoking is bad at the start? So why did you start in the first place? More often than not people start a bad habit through friends who introduce the activity to them.

If Pinoys all of a sudden scuttled the concept of "pakikisama" and "utang ng loob" I'd be really impressed and yet a lot of traditional Pinoy will crucify those who dont go along with whatever scheme they want.

Ultimate question everyone should ask is the type of corruption we have include a govt that is responsive to the people's needs? In the US I am sure there is corruption there but civil servants do not allow it interfere with the govt's function to serve the citizens properly. In our case corruption hampers us from getting what we want.

[OTO]

Which brings us to something ironic.

Student leader/activist goes to the streets to protest this and that. Decades later they're in their lofty positions and they are being targeted by the student leader/activists.

And the cycle goes on and on and on.