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August 4th, 2008 09:35 PM #11
I think UP should remain true to its commitment of admitting the best and the brightest Pinoys, rich or poor....
....of course the state should provide more support to the poor.....The rich can afford Ateneo and La Salle--among the best schools in the country....(with UST of course!)
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August 4th, 2008 09:36 PM #12
I agree that the State University should strictly adhere to its academic standards, irregardless of the social standing/status of its students. The challenge of bringing up the standard of education should be passed on to the public high schools to be able to cope up with the ever-changing landscape of education, for us to be globally competitive....
6505:Bath:
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August 5th, 2008 07:29 AM #14So now it's the university's fault for poor people being stupid?
I'd blame it more on the lower-level public school system. It's their responsibility to churn out students smart enough to pass the entrance exams.
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August 5th, 2008 08:05 AM #15TE=Dr.Kamiya;1111490]So now it's the university's fault for poor people being stupid? .
[SIZE="3"]Guys, please avoid generalization.[/SIZE]
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Not all poor people are stupid. In the same manner, not all rich people are bright/intelligent.
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August 5th, 2008 08:45 AM #16
The news article is very poorly written and can become confusing, this goes the same for the title of this thread... hence, the reader sometimes jumps to a wrong conclusion based on the limited facts presented.
Basically, what ADB is saying is that poor students are less competitive than their rich counterparts... in effect less of them are able to gain entrance to state universities and colleges. But they blame it on the fiscal position of the SUCs - WTF?
From what I've seen, it is the students themselves (regardless if they are rich or poor) that have no drive to study harder or excel in what they are doing. A lot of them are wasting their time and effort on such mundane things. Though collaborating with the story, this is more persistent in non-science public schools.
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August 5th, 2008 11:33 AM #17
This is the problem. You made poor and erroneous conclusions. And you keep on jumping on wrong conclusions based on limited facts that you present.
I suggest read the article and thread carefully and stop making poor generalizations.
Basically, what ADB is saying is that poor students are less competitive than their rich counterparts... in effect less of them are able to gain entrance to state universities and colleges. But they blame it on the fiscal position of the SUCs - WTF?
From what I've seen, it is the students themselves (regardless if they are rich or poor) that have no drive to study harder or excel in what they are doing. A lot of them are wasting their time and effort on such mundane things. Though collaborating with the story, this is more persistent in non-science public schools
This is a hasty generalization....you are trivializing the problem....Last edited by jpdm; August 5th, 2008 at 11:46 AM.
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August 5th, 2008 12:09 PM #18Very interesting article and conversations… I don’t think UP is anti-poor… They’re just not pro-poor… It’s not always going to be black and white for these types of topics. Again, very interesting.
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August 5th, 2008 12:15 PM #19
It's not just the students... it's also the schools. I taught for a year at a public school... and the number of students passed up to Grade Six who are nearly illiterate is disheartening. The quality of our basic public education is pure crap. We have good teachers here and there, but with not enough resources in the schools and no home support for the children, who often have to change out of their uniforms and into rags to go back out onto the streets to beg or peddle because their parents are underemployed, how the heck are these kids going to get to college?
But Mazdamazda is right... the article and the study come to a conclusion at a complete 90-degrees to the study findings itself:
“The unemployment rate among the high school and college educated has persisted over the last two decades at 9 percent or more,” the study says.
“This is the gridlock of Philippine education.”
The report partly traces the problem to the government’s education policy, particularly that relating to higher education.“Much of the problem is rooted in finance, especially the financial management of state universities and colleges,” the study says.
“Revolutionary reforms in the state universities and colleges’ finance would be required for dismantling the gridlock.”
Those of us in the education business can already tell you some of the reasons for unemployment.
There is a grave mismatch between graduates produced and jobs available. With many small jobs and part-time jobs requiring applicants to be college students or to have a college degree, students are needlessly filtered into college courses even if their aptitudes make them fit for technical courses (under TESDA) which give useful employment opportunities.
Students also often go for the "course of the hour". For the past few years, this has been nursing. With the lack of teeth and budget for the CHED in its ability to police "diploma mills", the reactions of the regulatory bodies overseas to poor student quality, making them discriminate against Filipino students in general, and the increasing number of requirements foisted upon these students by the government (pay 100$ for this, 100$ for that... oh... and you have do this and this and this...), it's much harder for these students to go abroad... thus, thousands upon thousands of graduates with no place to go.
Pulling one statistic out of the air and blaming it all on the fiscal policy of state schools does not compute.
Now... I'm not going to defend UP's fiscal policy as solid. Hell... no government-run system has a good balance sheet... anywhere in the world... but what does UP's fiscal status have to do with the fitness of graduates?
UP graduates have a good employment rate... when the graduates themselves show the drive to achieve. And UP itself is not anti-poor. I have many classmates who came from poverty and low-income families who were supported by UP STFAP system for the four or five years they were in college. This system allowed them to finish, find good jobs, and move up from low-income to lower-middle class status. If that's not serving the poor, I don't know what is.
But the big problem is: UP needs to maintain its status as a premiere university. Which means it needs to be strict in terms of the quality of students it accepts. This doesn't prevent lazy students from getting in, but those students get themselves kicked out in due time. But this does prevent students with poor high school education from getting in... but is this UP's fault?
Why don't we ask the government about the DECS budget... which perennially falls short of meeting the needs of students. Or the budget that Congress refuses to give to UP, which could support more poor students (with less Congressional subsidy, UP must now charge over 1000 pesos a unit). Or we can ask the UP activists, who continually oppose any plans to capitalize on UP's land assets to support its academic operation.
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Granted, State Schools need the wake-up call. Many people inside UP live in a perpetual haze... basking in the afterglow of their "glory days". And many State Schools are, granted, inefficient in the way they use money.
But there's not enough money.
And there's a general malaise affecting our entire educational system. Where subjects, courses and content are injected, removed, re-instated and added onto by political whim (remember the English-Filipino controversy)... and College Curriculums and requirements set forth by our regulatory bodies are also dictated by politics (the local, academic and professional kind) rather than industry needs. Nurses don't need one-and-a-half years of liberal arts... do they? But politics dictates they do. Those politics dictate the equipment you need to buy, the courses you need to offer, etcetera...
The real disjunct is where education meets employment. That's why many schools are now working directly with the industry... to provide them exactly the kind of graduates they need. And Government, likewise, has to see to it that its educational policy provides for maximum employability, instead of being tailor-fit to satisfy the personal, selfish interests of some in power.
Ang pagbalik ng comeback...
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August 5th, 2008 06:40 PM #20
^^^ OB alert!!! Certified Idiot on Board!!! OB alert!!!
Bakit ba gustong-gusto niyang magpost sa UP thread na to??
UK, Oz-wide JB74 fuel pump recall. Check Suzuki Ph for VINs affected. Sent from my SM-S901E...
Suzuki JIMNY [merged threads]