Scrap the VFA?

[Steeljack]

United States unhappy over bid to end Manila security treaty

Washington is not pleased with a plan by some Philippine lawmakers to scrap a treaty that they believe gives undue protection to visiting US troops who break the law, a Philippine official has said.

full story

Are you in favor?

[oldblue]

now is not the right time lang talaga, with the widening gap between the rich pinoys and the poor ones, we can turn into a beirut anytime ...

[Karding]

scrap na yan, para naman makita natin na kaya ng Pinas tumayo mag-isa.

Sure, if VFA is scrapped, the US Military's logistics ops can be affected. But Phils lose more than what the US would. Kung gusto ng Pinas na ma-apektuhan ang logistics ops ng US Military, ask S. Korea, Japan, AUS, and the rest of the Western Pacific region to scrapped the VFA as well. Tapos, yayain nyo ng gera US para masaya. :hihihi: If not, wala ding epekto ang pag scrapped ng VFA sa Pinas.

Saka ano ba naman ang sama kung US has the custody while the case is in progress? Akala ba talaga ng Pinas hindi hahatulan ng parehas ang mga US Military? Juskudai, a couple of my friends has been to the brig for just an assault**. Na-late nga lang ako ng balik sa barko, napunta na ko ng Captain's Mast*. How much more kung rape.

*Nonjudicial punishment of US military personnel is authorized by Article 15 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

**Article 128 assault; assault consummated by a battery; assault with a dangerous weapon

[creepy]

scrap na yan, para naman makita natin na kaya ng Pinas tumayo mag-isa.

I have to agree (Hahaha).

Saka ano ba naman ang sama kung US has the custody while the case is in progress?

It's a question of sovereignty. If a Filipino (or a Kenyan or Bolivian or Bangladeshi) were accused of raping an American girl in the US, would the US give up custody????? Pantay-pantay lang dapat ang LAHAT ng bansa, KAHIT SUPERPOWER ka pa. People should not be able to get away with things because of their citizenship.

Akala ba talaga ng Pinas hindi hahatulan ng parehas ang mga US Military?

I think the answer to that question is obvious. And the right word is not "akala".

[Karding]

It's a question of sovereignty. If a Filipino (or a Kenyan or Bolivian or Bangladeshi) were accused of raping an American girl in the US, would the US give up custody????? Pantay-pantay lang dapat ang LAHAT ng bansa, KAHIT SUPERPOWER ka pa. People should not be able to get away with things because of their citizenship.

Kapatid, may VFA ba sa US ang alleged Filipino rapist? Kung wala, eh di why give up the Filipino? Kung meron, eh di ibigay ang hilig ng Pinas. Depende din naman sa nilalaman ng VFA mismo.

Pantay pantay na papaano? Gaya ng sabi ni coder, hindi ba binasa ng mga politician sa pinas ang VFA??? It clearly states that US can demand custody while the case is in progress.

Pantay pantay, eh di basahin muna ang VFA bago pirmahan. Tapos ngayon tatawag ng FOUL ibang Pinoy dahil gusto ng US sila may custody sa mga USMC. Eh kung pinagisipan muna kse bago pinirmahan, eh di wala sanang nagrereklamo ng inequality.

Straight-Six, tama ka...kadalasan mga USMC ang sumisira sa pangalan ng US Military.

[creepy]

Kapatid, may VFA ba sa US ang alleged Filipino rapist? Kung wala, eh di why give up the Filipino? Kung meron, eh di ibigay ang hilig ng Pinas. Depende din naman sa nilalaman ng VFA mismo.

Pantay pantay na papaano? Gaya ng sabi ni coder, hindi ba binasa ng mga politician sa pinas ang VFA??? It clearly states that US can demand custody while the case is in progress.

Pantay pantay, eh di basahin muna ang VFA bago pirmahan. Tapos ngayon tatawag ng FOUL ibang Pinoy dahil gusto ng US sila may custody sa mga USMC. Eh kung pinagisipan muna kse bago pinirmahan, eh di wala sanang nagrereklamo ng inequality.

Straight-Six, tama ka...kadalasan mga USMC ang sumisira sa pangalan ng US Military.

You are confusing what is legal with what is moral/right. U.S. power makes its actions "legal" but it does not make these same actions right.

Unless the U.S. government (and the near-sighted people living there who don't give a d**n about offending weaker countries) realizes this, you cannot blame people for becoming angry.

Please take a deep breath and think carefully about what you write -- and ask yourself if what the U.S. is doing is something you (as a human being first and U.S. citizen second) would be proud of.

[oldblue]

It's a question of sovereignty. If a Filipino (or a Kenyan or Bolivian or

sovereignty? meron ba talaga nakakaintindi sa tin kung ano ibig sabihin nito?


we have politicians, executives, businessmen who are working their butts off to achieve the American Dream - live in America with lots and lots of retirement fund so as not to work again for the rest of their lives.

we have movie houses where majority of cinemas have hollywood movies and where select local movies, mosty made by giant networks ABS or GMA are shown.

we have a military who pockets their yearly budget to feed their families than buy what is needed to protect our sovereignty.

even rice is cheaper to get from China than from our local farmers.

nowadays, if we have politicos who claim they are nationalists or they love their country so much, they're just considered grandstanding.

tingin ko ang mga true-blooded nationalists na lang ngayon, eh yun mga tao
na nagtatrabaho sa BSP saka sa National Security. but even they wont go that low na maki-ride on sa scrap VFA coz of rape case controversy.

[oldblue]

exactly, If Phil-US relations get burned or worsen, another super power will take her place. and we all know naman who's the super power in this region na. i dont think the mighty US will give us away just that easily to you know who.

not to sound like a conspiracy theorist or something , but we are very vulnerable right now. napakadali i-exploit ang taung-bayan to join an "idealistic" cause with a hidden agenda. spooks are everywhere.

[Karding]

Gustong i-scrap ng lawmakers ang VFA pero walang makitang suggestion nila to cover for the $300million that would be lost "excluding funds to build roads and schools in poor communities" if VFA is scrapped. Malapit na ba botohan sa Pinas? nagpapabanguhan na naman yata sa congress/senate.

I know madali magsalita dahil hindi ko kamag-anak yung alleged rape victim.

[Karding]

Look at this map, kaya kailangan din ng Pinas ang US is because Phils and its water is part of the so called Arc of Instability. Also, US needs the Phils to implement the new 10-30-30 strategy.

10 days to react to crisis
30 days to swiftly defeat the enemy
30 days to re-supply and do it again

kapag wala ang Pinas baka maging 10-30-45 na. Masakit sa ulo mag amend ng strategy... :evillaugh

[StraightSix]

1995 - US servicemen abduct, beat up, then raped a 12 yr old Okinawan girl.

1998 - US servicemen flying a jet in Italy flew too fast and too low, thus cutting the cables of a ski gondola and causing 20 people to fall to their death.

2005 - US servicemen allegedly raped a Filipina in Subic.

'Ala lang ... all these servicemen came from the US Marine Corps. Sila yata taga-"testing" ng mga VFA.

[CoDer]

It's funny; law here in the Phil is just a matter of convenience. If the media viewed it as disadvantageous, politician scrap it. Custody was made clear when the VFA was signed, why scrap it that easily.

I just can't help it but wonder why the media has been so one sided on this case. Na scrap na rin ba ang balanced journalism dito sa pilipinas?

Eto pang judge na humawak ng kaso. He knows about the rule on VFA custody, I mean what's the point in issuing a warrant of arrest?

[StraightSix]

I just can't help it but wonder why the media has been so one sided on this case. Na scrap na rin ba ang balanced journalism dito sa pilipinas?

One possibility for the bias might be due to the fact that not a single US serviceman stood in a Philippine court to face his accuser/s. Before the bases were handed over, there were numerous allegations of rape and murder that never saw the light of day in court, as the accused were automatically reassigned to other posts outside the Philippines. I remember a case where a USAF guard shot a pinoy scavenging in a dumpsite. The guard claimed that he thought the scavenger was a wild boar (baboy-damo). The guard was immediately reassigned to Japan. Perceived injustices like this one is just part of the reasons why people protested on the streets during the VFA negotiations. The agreement was still ratified by the then-Senate, so we have to thank our politicians for that.

...kadalasan mga USMC ang sumisira sa pangalan ng US Military.

It could be the result of the training they got, being gung-ho and all that. But then again, my cousin and bro-in-law were ex-Seals ... I've never seen them act like cowboys, so maybe not.

Good luck na lang sa Pilipinas over the custody battle. Even the Italians weren't succesful when they demanded custody of the Marine jet crew who killed 20 skiers, even if they're hosts to a US base at Aviano.

[yebo]

vfa has already been ratified by the Philippine senate BUT has not yet been ratified by the US senate.

so what needs to be scrapped when there is no treaty to speak of? the treaty is only binding if both governments ratify it. since the US has not yet ratified the vfa then they can in fact say "aahhh, what treaty?" so can the philippine government if it wants to.

[StraightSix]

vfa has already been ratified by the Philippine senate BUT has not yet been ratified by the US senate.

Thanks, yebo. You're right - there is no binding treaty.

Article IX: Duration and Termination
This agreement shall enter into force on the date on which the parties have notified each other in writing through the diplomatic channel that they have completed their constitutional requirements for entry into force. This agreement shall remain in force until the expiration of 180 days from the date on which either party gives the other party notice in writing that it desires to terminate the agreement.

theveed, regarding US response to an attack on the Phil. from an external enemy, isn't that covered by the RP-US Mutual Defense Treaty? Bullying is not covered, I think

[theveed]

Well, akin ok lang tanggalin ang VFA, wag lang hihingi ng tulong sa US pag sinugod/bully ng ibang nations like China

[empy]

i don't get it. are they talking about scrapping a whole treaty because of one clause that they didn't like and a single incident? isn't that an overreaction?

like Karding said, madaling magsalita dahil hindi ko kamag-anak yung na-rape, but i thought the Philippine government, economy and military all benefited from the VFA? correct me if i'm wrong.

wouldn't it be a better idea to pursue an amendment instead of junking the whole thing?

i have no sympathy for rapists (keeping in mind these marines are all innocent until proven guilty), but on the other hand i kinda appreciate that the US government protects its citizens when they're abroad.

btw US military justice is swift and harsh. i don't think these guys would be getting off easy if they were to be court-martialed.

[Alpha_One]

i don't get it. are they talking about scrapping a whole treaty because of one clause that they didn't like and a single incident? isn't that an overreaction?

like Karding said, madaling magsalita dahil hindi ko kamag-anak yung na-rape, but i thought the Philippine government, economy and military all benefited from the VFA? correct me if i'm wrong.

wouldn't it be a better idea to pursue an amendment instead of junking the whole thing?

i have no sympathy for rapists (keeping in mind these marines are all innocent until proven guilty), but on the other hand i kinda appreciate that the US government protects its citizens when they're abroad.

btw US military justice is swift and harsh. i don't think these guys would be getting off easy if they were to be court-martialed.

Ditto.

I think the media/politicos/other useless third parties (i.e. communist militants) have been way too one-sided on this whole issue. Madali nga magsalita kung di ko kamag-anak yung na rape.

[Ottoman]

What will happen to PH military if the VFA is terminated?

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[2lits17]

ano mangyayari kay Pemberton, deretso na siya sa bilibid?

masaya na china niyan sa pilipinas.

bingong bingo tayo sa china:

NCOV casualty is only 3 despite na ang daming chinaman sa pinas
Temporary BAN ang Taiwan since PH is considering Taiwan as part of China.
VFA cancelled
whats next?