Sabah Standoff Issues

[boybi]

why single out Pnoy? how about cory, ramos, erap. gma?

A basta! Si Pnoy pa rin may kasalanan ng lahat!

[badkuk]

why single out Pnoy? how about cory, ramos, erap. gma?

Good point. The deal could not have been struck during P-Noy's time. If anything nadedelay na nga ung pag bid ng PPP's.

[iOz]

Mahaba pa itong guera na ito...

Pop corn nga dyan mga ka tsikot...

Ilang araw din natahimik ang mga pro malaysian spokesmen dito...topic is going into circle ba?

Important thing is the intelligent opinion of individuals...

[Tj_abs]

You talking about Metro Pacific? It's owned by First Pacific, which is in turn owned by the Salim Group, who are Indonesian:

Salim Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you sir. Kaya pala mahal ang toll fee

[Tj_abs]

I thought malaysian , indonesian pala. My mistake btw During GMA regime, the gov't has able to file a claim against sabah way back 2001 in ICJ. Im just wondering why the present administration didnt follow up the case of sabah?

[shadow]

I thought malaysian , indonesian pala. My mistake btw During GMA regime, the gov't has able to file a claim against sabah way back 2001 in ICJ. Im just wondering why the present administration didnt follow up the case of sabah?

Again, 10 yrs of GMA, why didn't they follow as well?
Now 3.5 yrs into pnoy administration you're asking why this administration didn't follow it up?

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[Tj_abs]

Lastly, why pnoy didn't included the sabah claim in his "Framework agreement on the Bangsamoro"? Inmo, Sabah standoff is “a test of leadership” of President Aquino, adding that this is also “a test to the sincerity of the Malaysian government in promoting peace and helping Mindanao attain peace.”

[Tj_abs]

The Philippines National Oil Company (PNOC) began exploring for oil and natural gas in the Liguasan Marsh area in 1994 under Geophysical Survey and Exploration Contract (GSEC) 73, which covered all of Maguindanao, North Cotabato, South Cotabato, Sultan Kudurat, Sarangani, Davao, and Bukidnon provinces of Mindanao.
Malaysia’s national oil company, Petronas, partnered with the PNOC for the exploration of the marshland.
“By the late 1990’s, they had located natural gas and/or oil in five sites, including Datu Piang (Dulawan) and Sultan Sa Barongis in Maguindanao and Lambayong in Sultan Kudurat.
According to the PNOC, the estimated natural gas deposits in Sultan Sa Barongis alone would be enough to fuel a 60-megawatt (MW) combined cycle power plant for 20 years.
“The PNOC had hoped to use this gas to support the power requirements of Mindanao as well as for industrial applications. However, the PNOC and Petronas suspended operations in the Liguasan Marsh area due to threats from the MILF and extortion by local mayors and political warlords,” it added.
***
If the website of the Royal Hashemite Sultanate of Sulu website is correct, the Philippine government stands to earn 60% of all oil royalties from the find of oil companies
***
When the fanfare, press releases, feel good ceremonies are over – it will still boil down to jobs – and there will not be any. When the intoxication and euphoria of these meaningless actions are over, comes the reality check – where are the jobs? Hell breaks loose all over again. Source : antpnoy.com

[Tj_abs]

Thus far, it can be concluded that:
1. Petronas/Malaysia and PNOC/PHL government have worked together to explore/develop natural/gas oil in Liguasan Marsh (MILF territory). Operations stopped in the late 1990s after the MILF threatened the operations.
2. Bangsamoro Peace Framework agreement between MILF and Philippine government signed in Kuala Lumpur. Philippine President Benigno Aquino III, who engineered the deal hammered out in secret talks in the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur, described it in glowing terms in a television address broadcast nationwide from Malacañang, the presidential palace (Oct 2012).
3. Philippine government stands to earn 60% of all natural gas/oil extracted from Liguasan Marsh. The remanining 40% will be divided between the MILF/Bangsamoro and most likely – Petronas. Malaysia

[Tj_abs]

Again, 10 yrs of GMA, why didn't they follow as well?
Now 3.5 yrs into pnoy administration you're asking why this administration didn't follow it up?

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With due respect sir, im not against pnoy but in the case of sabah claims during the time of GMA ( im not a GMA fan ), she did the right thing of pursuing our claim of our sovereignty. As a matter of fact, the goverment at that time is actively participating with the case. The indonesian government is also claiming for sabah thats why the philippine gov't intervene the case of indonesia vs malaysia with regard to the sabah case. The ICJ decision does not affect in any way the merits of the Philippine claim to Sabah. The Philippines requested intervention in the case as a non-party. In other words, the Philippines, in seeking to intervene, did not intend to become a party to the case: between Malaysia and ndonesia. Its purpose is a limited one, namely, to have the opportunity to explain and show to the ICJ that its claim to Sabah may be adversely affected by the Court's decision or by its reasoning in arriving at that decision if the Philippines would not be given the opportunity to be
heard in the case between Malaysia and Indonesia .

[Altis6453]

With due respect sir, im not against pnoy but in the case of sabah claims during the time of GMA ( im not a GMA fan ), she did the right thing of pursuing our claim of our sovereignty. As a matter of fact, the goverment at that time is actively participating with the case. The indonesian government is also claiming for sabah thats why the philippine gov't intervene the case of indonesia vs malaysia with regard to the sabah case. The ICJ decision does not affect in any way the merits of the Philippine claim to Sabah. The Philippines requested intervention in the case as a non-party. In other words, the Philippines, in seeking to intervene, did not intend to become a party to the case: between Malaysia and ndonesia. Its purpose is a limited one, namely, to have the opportunity to explain and show to the ICJ that its claim to Sabah may be adversely affected by the Court's decision or by its reasoning in arriving at that decision if the Philippines would not be given the opportunity to be
heard in the case between Malaysia and Indonesia .

A better question would be why didn't GMA's administration initiate a case in the ICJ for its claim in Sabah during those 9 years instead of filing an intervention in a case over territory that it doesn't even claim?

Malaysia and Indonesia were well within their rights to reject the PH's motion to intervene as there was no claim of the PH under dispute. Moreover, whatever decision the ICJ could've rendered will have a limited effect on the PH claim to Sabah, if at all.

[shadow]

and I've read somewhere that, they already remove PH govt to represent them in sabah claims...

[Tj_abs]

A better question would be why didn't GMA's administration initiate a case in the ICJ for its claim in Sabah during those 9 years instead of filing an intervention in a case over territory that it doesn't even claim?

Malaysia and Indonesia were well within their rights to reject the PH's motion to intervene as there was no claim of the PH under dispute. Moreover, whatever decision the ICJ could've rendered will have a limited effect on the PH claim to Sabah, if at all.

A good question deserves a good answer. Under our history, who is the first president of the philippines initiated to file a claim dispute over the sabah? cory?ramos?estrada? pnoy? Gma?none of the above.It was President Diosdado Macapagal who initiated the filing of the Philippine claim on Sabah in 1961.but In August 4, 1977, Marcos announced that the Philippines was giving up its claim to Sabah in order “to eliminate of the burdens of ASEAN.” Republic Act No. 5446 enacted in 1968 was never repealed, and its Section 2 says:

The definition of the baselines of the territorial sea of the Philippine Archipelago as provided in this Act is without prejudice to the delineation of the baselines of the territorial sea around the territory of Sabah, situated in North Borneo, over which the Republic of the Philippines has acquired dominion and sovereignty.” (Emphasis mine).

A dormant claim? Mr. Aquino and his spokespersons are demonstrating such scandalous level of ignorance about such an important issue.
In 13 March 2001, about two months in office, president Gloria Arroyo’s government filed a petition to intervene at the proceedings of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on the territorial dispute over the islands of Pulau Ligitan and Pulau Sipadan between Indonesia and Malaysia. (Yes, that’s the island where the Abu Sayyaf kidnapped foreign tourists in 2000.)

What’s the basis of the Philippines attempt to intervene in the case? Two of the reasons our country cited in the suit:

“[a] First, to preserve and safeguard the historical and legal rights of the government of the Republic of the Philippines arising from its claim to dominion and sovereignty over the territory of North Borneo, to the extent that these rights are affected, or may be affected, by a determination of the court of the question of sovereignty over Pulau Ligitan and Pulau Sipadan.

“[b] Second, to intervene in the proceedings in order to inform the Honorable Court of the nature and extent of the historical and legal rights of the Republic of the Philippines which may be affected by the court’s decision.In Aug. 20, 2008, Mrs. Arroyo issued “Guidelines on matters pertaining to North Borneo (Sabah)” which said that all official activity related to Sabah should have Department of Foreign Affairs clearance. In July 16, 2011, a Supreme Court upheld the baseline law, noting that the Philippine claim over Sabah is retained and can be pursued. Legally speaking under international law,before the ICJ could acquire jurisdiction over the case, consent of the parties is needed and only the states may be parties in cases before it. Here both parties indonesia and malaysia consented to bring the disputed sabah/ north borneo case to the ICJ. Upon the assumption of office of GMA,the philippine gov't initiated and filed intervention case on the grounds that PHILIPPINES has a VALID CLAIM against SABAH/ North borneo. The ICJ ACKNOWLEDGE All of the arguments and evidence presented to the ICJ . Even though the PHILIPPINES was rejected to intervene as a "NON-PARTY" again as a "NON-PARTY"

The Philippines did not lose totally because:

1. “Each one of the arguments made by the Philippines, and specifically opposed or objected to by Malaysia and Indonesia, was upheld by the Court in our favor. Our ARGUMENTS on matters of procedure or substance were UPHELD because they were SUPERIOR to the counter-arguments of Malaysia and Indonesia.

2. As a bonus, we have put on record a territorial claim to North Borneo, and the Court has assured us that it will NOT do anything that will prejudice this historic claim.”

[shadow]

meron pa pala naniniwala na this is about territory....tapalan lang ng pera mga kirams tatahimik na mga yan...

kirams started this mess let them clean it on their own...

sila-sila nga hinde magkasundo eh...ayusin muna nila buhay nila, huwag na nila damay buong pilipinas..pwe!

[Altis6453]

A good question deserves a good answer. Under our history, who is the first president of the philippines initiated to file a claim dispute over the sabah? cory?ramos?estrada? pnoy? Gma?none of the above.It was President Diosdado Macapagal who initiated the filing of the Philippine claim on Sabah in 1961.but In August 4, 1977, Marcos announced that the Philippines was giving up its claim to Sabah in order “to eliminate of the burdens of ASEAN.” Republic Act No. 5446 enacted in 1968 was never repealed, and its Section 2 says:

The definition of the baselines of the territorial sea of the Philippine Archipelago as provided in this Act is without prejudice to the delineation of the baselines of the territorial sea around the territory of Sabah, situated in North Borneo, over which the Republic of the Philippines has acquired dominion and sovereignty.” (Emphasis mine).

A dormant claim? Mr. Aquino and his spokespersons are demonstrating such scandalous level of ignorance about such an important issue.
In 13 March 2001, about two months in office, president Gloria Arroyo’s government filed a petition to intervene at the proceedings of the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on the territorial dispute over the islands of Pulau Ligitan and Pulau Sipadan between Indonesia and Malaysia. (Yes, that’s the island where the Abu Sayyaf kidnapped foreign tourists in 2000.)

What’s the basis of the Philippines attempt to intervene in the case? Two of the reasons our country cited in the suit:

“[a] First, to preserve and safeguard the historical and legal rights of the government of the Republic of the Philippines arising from its claim to dominion and sovereignty over the territory of North Borneo, to the extent that these rights are affected, or may be affected, by a determination of the court of the question of sovereignty over Pulau Ligitan and Pulau Sipadan.

“[b] Second, to intervene in the proceedings in order to inform the Honorable Court of the nature and extent of the historical and legal rights of the Republic of the Philippines which may be affected by the court’s decision.In Aug. 20, 2008, Mrs. Arroyo issued “Guidelines on matters pertaining to North Borneo (Sabah)” which said that all official activity related to Sabah should have Department of Foreign Affairs clearance. In July 16, 2011, a Supreme Court upheld the baseline law, noting that the Philippine claim over Sabah is retained and can be pursued. Legally speaking under international law,before the ICJ could acquire jurisdiction over the case, consent of the parties is needed and only the states may be parties in cases before it. Here both parties indonesia and malaysia consented to bring the disputed sabah/ north borneo case to the ICJ. Upon the assumption of office of GMA,the philippine gov't initiated and filed intervention case on the grounds that PHILIPPINES has a VALID CLAIM against SABAH/ North borneo. The ICJ ACKNOWLEDGE All of the arguments and evidence presented to the ICJ . Even though the PHILIPPINES was rejected to intervene as a "NON-PARTY" again as a "NON-PARTY"

The Philippines did not lose totally because:

1. “Each one of the arguments made by the Philippines, and specifically opposed or objected to by Malaysia and Indonesia, was upheld by the Court in our favor. Our ARGUMENTS on matters of procedure or substance were UPHELD because they were SUPERIOR to the counter-arguments of Malaysia and Indonesia.

2. As a bonus, we have put on record a territorial claim to North Borneo, and the Court has assured us that it will NOT do anything that will prejudice this historic claim.”

Winning an argument on a matter of procedure is different from having your substantive claims sustained by the ICJ. The historical perspective you presented did not answer the question as to why the PH under GMA did not initiate a suit impleading Malaysia over Sabah.

[Tj_abs]

and I've read somewhere that, they already remove PH govt to represent them in sabah claims...

I beg to disagree.Why did the Philippines get rejected to INTERVENE in the FIRST PLACE?

Answer:

That the absence of jurisdictional link between the Philippines and the Parties to the main case (Malaysia and Indonesia) is not a ground
for disqualifying the Philippines from intervention. The ICJ recognized that the Philippines sought to intervene as a non-party and therefore does not require such jurisdictional link.

----

Now you know!

The Philippines PETITION was REJECTED because THE PHILIPPINES SOUGHT TO INTERVENE as a "NON-PARTY" again as a "NON-PARTY"

and NOT AS A "CLAIMANT" like Malaysia and Indonesia!

BUT even though the Philippines got rejected as a "NON-PARTY", THE COURT ASSURED THE PHILIPPINES CLAIM WILL "NOT BE AFFECTED" BY THEIR DECISION....

[Tj_abs]

Again, 10 yrs of GMA, why didn't they follow as well?
Now 3.5 yrs into pnoy administration you're asking why this administration didn't follow it up?

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Pnoy has all the documents and evidence to show that the philippines has the right against sabah.Lastly im just wondering again,why pnoy didn't included the sabah claim in his "Framework agreement on the Bangsamoro"?

[Tj_abs]

meron pa pala naniniwala na this is about territory....tapalan lang ng pera mga kirams tatahimik na mga yan...

kirams started this mess let them clean it on their own...

sila-sila nga hinde magkasundo eh...ayusin muna nila buhay nila, huwag na nila damay buong pilipinas..pwe!

The SULTAN of SULU transferred all his territories to the REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES including SABAH.

By doing that, the PHILIPPINES has now the POWER and all LEGAL RIGHTS to claim SABAH.

The SULTAN of SULU, his relatives, and the suluks/tausugs described SABAH as

not only TAUSUG'S territory but also ALL FILIPINO'S territory!

[MrQ5]

The SULTAN of SULU transferred all his territories to the REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES including SABAH.

By doing that, the PHILIPPINES has now the POWER and all LEGAL RIGHTS to claim SABAH.

The SULTAN of SULU, his relatives, and the suluks/tausugs described SABAH as

not only TAUSUG'S territory but also ALL FILIPINO'S territory!

sadly, when they transferred the territorial claims of Sabah to RP, the documents they transferred including the sultan of Brunei documents pertaining to North Borneo transferring it to the sultan of Sulu, contracts/rent etc.,was destroyed by fire in the DFA. Mystically, only the room that contains those documents was destroyed by fire. (accdg to Atty Harry Roque).

[Ry_Tower]

Kasalanan na naman pal ni PNoy ito? hahaha

Mga british nag-umpisa nito. Sila sisihin niyo bakit hindi agad nasa atin sabah.