Marcos; His reign vs. Noynoy's?

[pop3corn]

To those who have misplaced grandeur of Marcos vision for the country, do not forget the country was bankrupt and in sovereign default toward the end during Marcoses' 21 year reign. What vision are you talking about?

every intelligent person can have a gift of great vision. sadly, the same person can be very impatient bec. he needs to pursue his vision in his lifetime.

Marcos knew that Filipinos are primitive that time and that the only way for them to realize his vision for the Philippines is to apply the iron hand. and that is where he committed his gravest error, he used the military to enforce it. as a very intelligent person, it's very obvious naman that using the military can backfire bec. the military comes from the same primitive Filipinos that he wants to control. But he pursued it pa din, why? bec. he was betting on his dreams/vision bec. he had optimism.

ganun naman talaga di'ba? sometimes the grandest plans, no matter how many fail-safes you have, i-rely mo na lang on faith and hope. Marcos was bankrupted in the near 80's, bec. he created a monster. He gave so much power to the military and that the same group can instantly remove him from power, if they wished. and so to appease this monster, they had the lion's share of the govt. earnings that time. siguro to him, sige ok na, regardless of the diversion of his true plans, basta ganun pa din ang ending / end result. what's important is if he is still in power, the vision is still in play.

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i'm not saying Marcos is better than GMA, Pnoy or Erap. i'm just saying that Marcos had a great vision for us. and us as the next generation, should embrace it. Marcos' method of pursuing that vision is the one that failed. But he had the guts to pursue it, even at a cost of killing thousands of people that time. to the common virtuous person, this is a cruel means of pursing a dream.

but do try to study history: Britian, France, USA and other developed nations, lost so many lives to become what they are today. all we have is Rizal (who is also half-chinese) who is a national hero who wrote those novels to infuriate Filipinos to rebel, and when time came for action (when Bonifacio & Aguinaldo asked him to join the movement to overthrow Spain), he rejected to be part of it. that's what we all are, all bluff.

[greenlyt]

ganun naman talaga di'ba? sometimes the grandest plans, no matter how many fail-safes you have, i-rely mo na lang on faith and hope. Marcos was bankrupted in the near 80's, bec. he created a monster. He gave so much power to the military and that the same group can instantly remove him from power, if they wished. and so to appease this monster, they had the lion's share of the govt. earnings that time. siguro to him, sige ok na, regardless of the diversion of his true plans, basta ganun pa din ang ending / end result. what's important is if he is still in power, the vision is still in play.

Marcos was bankrupt? no sir the marcoses remains to be billionaires up to this day, ang pilipinas ang na bankrupt dahil napunta sa kanya yun pera ng pinas

[niky]

To say "as long as it gets done... who cares about the issues" is very short-sighted... if not stupid.

Who cares about scandals? We got the Filmcenter done, despite the lax safety practices which resulted in the accident that caused foreign govenments to withdraw support.

Who cares about safety, anyway? We got the Bataan plant done... despite poor safety precautions (as well as that pesky fault-line). We've benefitted greatly from the plant that Marcos had built, right?

Who cares about corruption? ZTE would have been good, right? The infrastructure projects Gloria did were great! Especially the million dollar bridges built in the middle of nowhere!

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Massive infrastructure development means nothing if it doesn't come with massive social development. Singapore's secret was not that they spent a lot... but also that the spending was targetted, and government policies and laws were altered to ensure these projects benefitted people and would continue.

In the Philippines, massive infrastructure development simply means someone's getting paid extra money on the side in kickbacks.

[Monseratto]

And we won't be having this comparison if the Philippines were at par with our sucessful asian neighbours. THat means Marcos is a FAIL since the Philippine ended up with the monicker "sickman of Asia" under his term. All leaders have vision, unfortunately Marcos is bunched up with visionary leaders like Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Moammar Qadaffy and Stalin...

[pop3corn]

And we won't be having this comparison if the Philippines were at par with our sucessful asian neighbours. THat means Marcos is a FAIL since the Philippine ended up with the monicker "sickman of Asia" under his term. All leaders have vision, unfortunately Marcos is bunched up with visionary leaders like Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Moammar Qadaffy and Stalin...

Hitler must be the most effective application of a vision. in my view, Hitler was just instrumental for an apocalyptic cleansing event. read wiki: the allies lost almost 50M people (both civilians/military) while the axis power only lost lost 8M (that's Japan, Italy and Germany). the world needed cleansing that time bec. the world hit Great Depression after the stock market crash of 29.

ive read what happened in prior to the Stock crash of '29. parehong-pareho ngaun, buro bubble burst as what happened in the Florida real estate bubble of 1926. puros greed kasi ang mga tao noon, everybody wanted to have the large piece of the pie, and therefore, God or nature or fate or whatever rewarded us with the Great Depression. what happens in a depression - people become useless, parasites, always complaining/blaming fools, not contributing to society. and so what happens next: cleansing, and therefore, the 50M+ people who died. and after WWII, the world was refreshed and us, we are the direct benefactors of the peace that came after, eh kaya lang, it's was 70 years ago, so our generation don't give a rat's ass what happened and so there is the tendency for history to repeat itself, if we don't stop our greedy ways

so for those of you who are still not convinced as to why the mass killings happened in Marcos' time. it is bec. he knew that it is necessary for a greater goal kasi ganun naman talaga ang history. 'am just trying to think like Marcos

[niky]

and therefore, the 50M+ people who died.

Most of whom were hardworking, productive members of society, whose only sin was creating a lot of capital for the Nazis to steal.

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By any chance, do you also believe in Hollow Earth?

[greenlyt]

sir pop: say what? clueless

[Altis6453]

It was not until I went to Europe when I truly realized what Marcos and Imelda are up to. as you can see Imelda is building landmarks in the Philippines with her so many numerous ambitious projects. it's true that it cost so much money and even lives but they had a dream - a long term one. something that the new generations of Filipinos can be proud of.

let's take for example, Singapore, HK and Sokor, the only reason why they are hot destinations in Asia by tourists around the world is bec. they have landmarks worth visiting. compare this to Vietnam / Cambodia and others like us, and even though we have malls, we are still considered low-class and therefore, is not worth of\\ the respect of developed nations.

wala eh ganun talaga eh, if we want big time foreigners to know our country, they would enter as tourists first, and when they're impressed, they will invest the 2nd time around they go here.

let's take for example, Rome and the whole of Italy, Italy is no different from us, hindi naman maganda talaga siya, mainit din, in fact it's old like Manila old, I even saw some slum-looking houses in Venice but the thing is they have these landmarks worthy of visiting and that's why tourists flock in.

The "landmarks" visited by tourists in particular countries are not limited to edifices or buildings. They may also pertain to locations where there are natural scenery unique to that part of the world. By the way, most of the landmarks you refer to in Italy were not put there by government. It was built by the Church and the artisans they commissioned.


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regarding naman dun sa allegations of Marcos summarily executing Filipinos, i'm beginning to understand why. Filipinos are just chronic complainers and blamers. magsisimula ka pala ng isang beatification project, puros batikos, complaints, tira dito tira doon, and when sensationalized, the project is marred with corruption.

hindi nyo ba alam ang nangyayari ngaun, what we have is Philippines run hell by Filipinos. out there, 10 years ago, we see jeepneys and buses, today, there is "progress", there are UV express, taxis, it's almost as if all money that we get is invested in public transpo. instead na public services ito like in any other developed nation, this public transportation systems become a lucrative profitable business na naka-tie up na din sa pagtaas ng gasolina. sa Europe sa US, rising gasoline dictates tightening of belts and reevaluation of existing systems for making it more efficient and effective. dito we spend more on a resource (public vehicles) that is in dangerous of having an oversupply - or a bubble waiting to burst.

During Marcos time, he knew the danger of too many public transports in roads, that's despite numerous attempts noon by complainers/ people to portray an image that we lacked public transport back then. it doesn't even need Marcos' intelligence for him to figure out na walang pupuntahan ang sobrang daming public transport dito, all he has to do is visit developed countries and compare.

if we are to read the minds / motives of these people profiting/benefiting from public transports (traffic aides, drivers, owners, political backers), they would wish na sana most Filipinos would not afford to maintain a car anymore and instead mag-public transport na lang - and that would translate to bigger profits for them. and that is backwards progress. instead, na nagagamit ang mga resources available for us this time to propel us to the next decade, we are just creating problems that will make us more handicapped in the future, while others countries continue to overtake us.

So, it's perfectly ok for a President to have political opponents summarily killed so long as they complain a lot? And since when did expressing dissent become an excuse?

No one disputes that the mass transport system here is in disarray and is in need of major political will to overhaul. So, will you be perfectly ok with the idea to have those who oppose ideas to change it murdered?

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another point is that ZTE deal, too many Filipinos complained that GMA is corrupting much of the money for that project. when was that 3 or 4 years ago? where is the fund for that project now? malamang na-rechannel din, and ubos na, and to another corruption deal na fortunate enough na hindi dumaan sa sensationalizing media.

if that ZTE deal push through, at least computerization and network infrastructure within our government, nag-start na sana if not our government is totally connected by now. who cares about the corrupted money, kung nagagamit naman isang project that will improve our logistics and operation, ok lang dwell on that benefit. eh ngaun, our government are still using what PLDT dsl lol. the government needs a seperate network communications infrastructure from the private.

AFAIK, what fund are you talking about? The so-called US$ 329 Million ZTE-NBN deal was to be wholly-funded by ZTE with the PH paying ZTE over the life of the project using taxpayer money. Who cares about corrupted money? Well, I don't know if you care about the taxes you pay, but I suspect a lot of people here do since its money taken away from people's wages and salaries. This project was supposedly over-priced precisely due to the huge amounts being requested by our corrupt politicians to be paid upfront by ZTE to get approval.

If people like you are so passionate about having such an overpriced broadband network for government, maybe you can pay for it with your own money.

tapos ngaun people are complaining about this China incursion. what are they thinking if we had 50 F-16s and 50 destroyers, may laban tayo sa China. so what if we really did have those war weapons, pano mo i-cordinate yun mga yun during war, sa unli-plan ng globe / smart?

we are indeed such a lowly race with so much time to open our mouths for complaints/blames and think we are on the side of good, bec. somehow if we are anti-corrupt, we think of ourselves as moral. we don't have the guts to think beyond the limits of social morals, and that's why up to now, ganito tayo.

This is exactly the kind of thinking that made our politicians get away with all sorts of corruption while they are in power. Ang sabihin mo, we don't have the guts to go after and punish those who need to be punished instead of letting time go by while they enjoy the fruits of their corruption.

And please, don't make this about the Chinese incursions against PH territory. Marcos politicized the military and co-opted its leaders into perpetuating himself in power. There was no money for modernization because it went to his generals' pockets.

if someone complains that he is an underdog, we immediately sympathize. yan ang sigaw ng marginalized drivers and puvs and activists natin, mahirap sila, intindihin natin sila. eto effect nyan, we have so much puvs on the road and anarchy, they don't pay taxes , they make us stressed even before going to work and make us late for work. and still we symphatize with them. ganun din yun cry ng corruption for every government project/deal, hindi pa nagsisimula sira na ang vision/confidence.

kung titignan nga natin, who really funds the reds/activist, whom we casually imitate with their complaints against corruption, is it the communist movement? who are the communists in our region? hindi ba't ito yun dalawang binu-bully tayo ngaun - the other one without care /remorse na bagsakan tayo ng missile. we complain so much -> we don't progress -> we can't defend.

If we think deeper, this is Art of War applied to us. hindi na kailangan magpadala pa ng battleships ang China dito, talo na kagad tayo from within by psych warfare. and it even costs less too. just find complainers slash nationalists, encourage their cries / shouts - (na kung tutuusin, bakit ba sila talaga galit na galit sa mundo, is it bec. of bad childhood and they want company to their misery) and then we have a disunite country.

The reason why people cry and complain corruption is well-rooted because of past experience with our national and local leaders. Kung sira ang "confidence and vision" nila, they shouldn't be in politics because they can't tolerate and accept that rejection is part of the job. True, there are those who complain for the sake of complaining, but if our government keeps giving them ammunition by not living up to their promise of providing better public service, then they won't go away.


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Marcos had a vision, but too bad his vision was not supported by most of the people of his time. para syang time traveler of the future in his time who had so much ideas for his country, too bad nga lang his people are primitive. they didn't share his vision, and even the sacrifices that they all had to make in that generation to pursue such a vision.

and as the younger generation, we should not buy that crap na lagi sinasabi ng mga matatanda, na ang kabataan ang kinabukasan. oo kinabukasan - taga-bayad ng utang nila, ng mga kapalpakan at pagpapakasarap nila. read history, learn to analyze it and act accordingly. our generation now has a very important ally - technology. something that the old can't/won't understand, and dun natin matatalo yun whatever na fini-feed nila sa'tin ngaun na only products of their failures.

Excuse me, I don't buy the crap that Marcos is a visionary. No, people were not primitive. They were scared because of his goons. Take that "he's a visionary and time traveler" schtick somewhere else.

[vinj]

Edifice complex indeed. I remember my friend in Tacloban saying that Imelda had people painting the friggin grass green right before some important visitors were to pass by.

Side comment on ZTE: It's a Chinese company, we are at odds with China now over the Scarborough Shoal issue so imagine the repercussions of having ZTE control our communications infrastructure.

[shadow]

Anong landmark ng HK and Singapore? Tourist go there for the shoppings.

[antonath]

Anong landmark ng HK and Singapore? Tourist go there for the shoppings.

HK Disneyland,, but heard a chismis na may proposal daw ang CLARK nag gawin Disneyland yun hundreds of hectare nila dun..

[EE100shiro]

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[Ry_Tower]

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Parang adik lang ah. Wanking everywhere....Necrophilia anyone? :hysterical:

[antonath]

buti na lang may commercial dito.. hahahaha.. sana sa haters thread din.. hahaha

[shadow]

Parang NOKOR ba? Facade Lang pala yun nakaharap ng mga buildings Sa Sokor...parang universal studio lang..lol

[pop3corn]

Parang NOKOR ba? Facade Lang pala yun nakaharap ng mga buildings Sa Sokor...parang universal studio lang..lol

Nokor is just an illusion of an enemy. kelangan ng mundo ng kalaban to keep the adrenalin up and what better way it is to choose a hermit nation that is so poor na alam naman ng superpowers no threat at all, pero kelangan palabasin na threat.

the US is very good in neutralizing threats. let's take for example, Iran. so they had to barge into Iraq para tabihan ang Iran. and then threat neutralized. same as Sokor with the Us military there, Nokor is just but a media hype.

ang alam ko talaga na pinakamatinde na nagpatindig balahibo sa US eh yun Cuban Missile Crisis bec. they never expected that the Russians (their enemy that time) could be so close, as in their backyard lang. kung tuusin yun lang naman talaga dapat katakutan eh kasi you won't need a continental warhead. eh kung ako Russia, eh di pasabugin ko Cuba ng nuclear, damay na US sa fall out. same as siguro what US will do if they got surprised attacked, pasabugin ko SoKor and Iraq from within and claim as accident. threat neutralized. kaya hindi na dapat pa tayo mabagabag pa dyan sa Iran saka Nokor na yan

[Altis6453]

Wow. I wonder where it's written that mass murder is justified for "greater goals".

You make a compelling defense for homicidal megalomania, or even genocide.

The problem with that thinking is that it's a sweeping condemnation of an entire generation and a casual judgment saying they don't have the right to live because they're dirt poor and complain a lot.

[piscesboy]

[niky]

"if only he had more time"... "If only his programs were continued..." As if. More time to do what? People believe that if his reign were to last another three or four years in that culture of paranoia, secrecy, strong-arm tactics and malversation that all of the sudden, money squandered on vanity projects will start to make sense? Suddenly, tens of billions of dollars of malversed money will start to pay off, despite not being spent on anything?

That's not to say Marcos alone is guilty... What about FVR's Clark Expo, which cost so much and now sits rotting in the sun? What about Gloria's bridges to nowhere... Or Bayani's mega-U-turn and pink fences?

For politicians, building things is simply a way of self-aggrandizement rather than as a means to true progress. The lack of which is masked simply by the free-flowing tax money surrounding such projects.

The sad thing, though,,. Is despite the changes since martial law... Some of the military and police act as if it still is. There are still abuses. It's not as systemic or widespread as that time, but the rot is still there... Which is why we had mutinies even up to Gloria's time.

[Ry_Tower]

The sad thing, though,,. Is despite the changes since martial law... Some of the military and police act as if it still is. There are still abuses. It's not as systemic or widespread as that time, but the rot is still there... Which is why we had mutinies even up to Gloria's time.

Actually from an insider's point, Erap and then GMA further increased he corruption within the PNP and military to the point that fresh grads from PMA knows exactly what's in it for them if they play along. Pero it's GMA who really made the greed overboard.