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View Poll Results: Do you agree with GMA to commute all death sentences to life?

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28. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    6 21.43%
  • No

    22 78.57%
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  1. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    14,822
    #1
    Quote Originally Posted by city
    try forgiving someone who brutally raped and killed your daughter or let's just say a little innocent girl....well if you can, something is not right...
    Remember the thread about the girl forgiving her assailant? Goes to show that children are more mature in this aspect than some adults.

    Revenge and justice are two different things.

    Quote Originally Posted by kris06
    Hindi ba economy mainly ang nagdidikta ng standard of living? Sa moral-ethical naman, mainly religion? Can you give an example nung impact & implication ng pagpapatupad ng death penalty?
    Getting past revenge as your means of justice is the next step of moral/ethical upliftment. Developed nations spent hundreds/thosands of years to take this next step by abolishing capital punishment. Our maturity as a nation shows when we still support and condone this barbaric act.

    Quote Originally Posted by kris06
    Hindi kasi lahat naniniwala sa Diyos, lalo na sa religion. Ako lang, ang tingin ko sa iba't ibang religion iba't ibang interpretation lang, pero ultimately iisa ang Diyos na sinasamba. Kaya lang, hangga't walang concrete proof ang Science kung saan nagmula ang mundo at ang mga laman nito, may lugar ang religion/Diyos...
    The Eurpoean Union & United Nations which are non-sectarian supports the abolition of capital punishment worldwide. Some new age thinking espouses that "humanity is the new religion" hence the need for compassion and understanding for even those that are convicted of henious crimes.

    On a worldwide basis, it has got nothing to do with religion but since most Filipinos predominantly call themselves "Christians" then religion plays a big role here.

    Quote Originally Posted by city
    I don't think it's a more enlightened sense of morals if that is what you call it. Easier said than done, my friend. I'd rather be jailed or die killing those bastards. I don't believe the jail system can correct these psychos. The jail system exists for those who can be rehabilitated. The death sentence for those that cannot be.
    Have you visited / talked with death row convicts to say this? Some of them are geniunely repenting for what they did... even saying that they really did deserve to be in jail for the crimes that they committed.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by mazdamazda
    Remember the thread about the girl forgiving her assailant? Goes to show that children are more mature in this aspect than some adults..
    the girl was 3 years old when she got shot. For all we know, she has no idea what she has lost because her life on a wheelchair is what she has come to know what life is. She's only 5. to publish that a girl forgives who robbed her of her future life is all publicity..IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by mazdamazda
    Revenge and justice are two different things...
    They are not in my book.

    Quote Originally Posted by mazdamazda
    Have you visited / talked with death row convicts to say this? Some of them are geniunely repenting for what they did... even saying that they really did deserve to be in jail for the crimes that they committed.
    I doubt it's genuine. It's pretty normal for them to show they are repenting....because they are scared **** they are about to die. Last resort to gain symphathy.

    To perform a hideous crime (rape and premeditated murder) and repent later is way to fake to solicit any sympathy...at least from me.

    I find it irrational to forgive rapists and murderers. I dont have to visit and see them to say otherwise.

  3. Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by mazdamazda
    Have you visited / talked with death row convicts to say this? Some of them are geniunely repenting for what they did... even saying that they really did deserve to be in jail for the crimes that they committed.

    i think they're only repenting bec. they know they are in death row. remove that from the equation, sigurado no remorse yan mga yan.

    .

  4. Join Date
    May 2005
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    739
    #4
    The only valid basis why death penalty should NOT be implemented is RELIGION.

    A TRUE christian believes that vengeance is God's domain. If imposing death cannot deter crime, then what else is the reason in imposing it? Vengeance, right? You should remember that the death penalty was posed to Jesus when the villagers caught an adulterous woman that should be stoned to death; to which Jesus replied, "He who has commited no sin, may cast the first stone."

    But of course, to atheists, this is all bullshet.

  5. Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyFerrari
    The only valid basis why death penalty should NOT be implemented is RELIGION.

    A TRUE christian believes that vengeance is God's domain. If imposing death cannot deter crime, then what else is the reason in imposing it? Vengeance, right? You should remember that the death penalty was posed to Jesus when the villagers caught an adulterous woman that should be stoned to death; to which Jesus replied, "He who has commited no sin, may cast the first stone."

    But of course, to atheists, this is all bullshet.

    sa pagkakataon na ito, physics dapat ang pairalin: "For every action, there is equal opposite reaction."

  6. Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    3,829
    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyFerrari
    The only valid basis why death penalty should NOT be implemented is RELIGION.

    A TRUE christian believes that vengeance is God's domain. If imposing death cannot deter crime, then what else is the reason in imposing it? Vengeance, right? You should remember that the death penalty was posed to Jesus when the villagers caught an adulterous woman that should be stoned to death; to which Jesus replied, "He who has commited no sin, may cast the first stone."

    But of course, to atheists, this is all bullshet.
    Correct!

  7. Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    57
    #7
    *mazdamazda

    What it affects is the standard of living & moral-ethical upliftment of a nation. Most developed nations have already passed the phase of using capital punishment as a deterrent. They've implemented that for hundreds of years and they already know its impact and implication.
    Ok, hehe, hindi ko magets...

    Hindi ba economy mainly ang nagdidikta ng standard of living? Sa moral-ethical naman, mainly religion? Can you give an example nung impact & implication ng pagpapatupad ng death penalty?

    Slow ko...

    Yup... and more so in the New Testament wherein forgiveness is the central theme. We expect God to forgive us of our sins and yet we cannot forgive those that have faulted against us.
    Hindi kasi lahat naniniwala sa Diyos, lalo na sa religion. Ako lang, ang tingin ko sa iba't ibang religion iba't ibang interpretation lang, pero ultimately iisa ang Diyos na sinasamba. Kaya lang, hangga't walang concrete proof ang Science kung saan nagmula ang mundo at ang mga laman nito, may lugar ang religion/Diyos... :D

    "Diyos ba ang gumawa sa tao, o tao ang gumawa sa Diyos?"

    *city

    IMO, criminals who have no respect for human life deserves no forgiveness.
    Amen!

    Kapag alam ko na sa sarili kong kaya kong patawarin ang sino mang gagawa ng mali sa mga mahal ko sa buhay, dun ko lang tatanggapin ang pagtanggal sa death penalty. :D

  8. Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    1,931
    #8
    again developed nations abolished capital punishment because they have no need for it, the death penalty is not a revenge but as a consequence, taking the law into your own hands is a revenge. you can forgive and forget when someone punches you in the face, thrashes your favorite things or say bad things about your love ones but can you forgive and forget when someone deliberately takes the life of your love ones?

  9. Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    1,931
    #9
    more than a 10 page thread bet anyone?

  10. Join Date
    Sep 2004
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    4,631
    #10
    I'm hardly the biblical sort, but for those who simply couldn't resist quoting the Bible, here are a few to ponder on:

    -- Genesis 33:4–15
    -- Genesis 45:8–15
    -- Numbers 12:1–13
    -- 2 Sam 19:18–23
    -- 1 Kings. 1:52, 53
    -- Luke 23:34
    -- Acts 7:59-60
    -- 2 Timothy 4:16
    -- Luke 17:3-4
    -- Matthew 18:21-22

  11. Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,931
    #11
    thats very optimistic guess you havent been walking along recto late at night where creeps go out, havent gotten into a fight with rude, undisciplined tambays whistling at your girlfriend or at you, oh well...

  12. Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    8,837
    #12
    criminals can be forgiven, but they still have to die ...

  13. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    6,794
    #13
    ang tanong ko lang is...

    ANO BA ANG NARARAPAT SA PILIPINAS KUNG SAAN ANG KRIMEN AY ISANG PANG ARAW ARAW NA PANGYAYARI?hindi lang ordinaryong pangnanakaw..kundi pagpatay sa mga bata, panggagahasa at kung anu ano pa?

    i think sa situation ng pinas...isipin muna natin ngayon ang WHAT IS NEEDED.kasi MALUBHA NA EH.

    i am catholic..and a firm believer of Christ's message.but how can we do the good if all that surrounds us is bad? yes...I CAN FORGIVE. but you have to pay for what you did sa MATA NG TAO at sa MATA NG DIYOS.

  14. Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    4,293
    #14
    can you forgive a suicide bomber blowing up innocent people?

  15. Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    4,293
    #15
    You pay for the crime you made then forgiveness comes later.

  16. Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    3,177
    #16
    Wasn't there a passage in the NT where Jesus cursed a fig tree which shriveled up and died? Sabagay, it's only a tree...

  17. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    9,894
    #17
    i don't get a vote on this, obviously, but i can't help but think:

    - i've always been a believer in the death penalty. criminals need to be accountable in the ultimate manner for crimes, and while putting someone to death doesn't bring a dead victim back, vengeance can be an end or reward unto itself. i also don't think that vengeance is immoral.

    - however, with the corruption that seems to permeate your judicial system, i am guessing that there is a good chance that an innocent scapegoat will be put to death for the crimes of the well-connected, or the death penalty becoming state-sponsored murder.

    tough one.

  18. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    1,271
    #18
    one of the reasons why i don't like the death penalty....it's ireversible...once the penalty is given...it's a point of no return even if the court discover later that there was an error in the judgement...

    Chief Justice: SC error led to execution
    Echegaray should have lived—Panganiban

    First posted 01:04am (Mla time) June 10, 2006
    By Armand N. Nocum
    Inquirer

    Editor's Note: Published on page A1 of the June 10, 2006 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer

    CHIEF Justice Artemio Panganiban has admitted that there may have been a “judicial error” in the death of Leo Echegaray, the first convict to be executed following the passage of Republic Act No. 7659 or the death penalty law.

    Seven years after his death by lethal injection, Echegaray should not have been executed, Panganiban said. He should have been given life imprisonment because RA 7659 prescribes capital punishment for rape perpetrated by the “common-law spouse of the parent of the victim,” a qualifying circumstance which was not alleged in the complaint.

    Panganiban said the complaint alleged that the victim was the daughter of Echegaray. However, it was proven during the trial that he was not “a father, stepfather or grandfather” of the victim. The court nonetheless affirmed his death sentence.

    Panganiban, who had consistently opposed the death penalty, said however, that the court was bent on correcting the “erroneous execution” of Echegaray as shown by its “stringent review of death cases” where it “modified” 64.61 percent of sentences to life imprisonment or “other lower penalties.”

    “That percentage translates to a total of 651 out of 907 appellants saved from lethal injection,” he said in a recent speech during the launching of the Free Legal Assistance Group’s publication “Legal Reference on Capital Cases.”

    This was not the case with Echegaray, who was the first of seven to die by lethal injection in 1999, after the court affirmed his death sentence following the passage of the death penalty law.

    In June 1996, all 15 Supreme Court justices, including Panganiban, affirmed the Quezon City Regional Trial Court’s decision to mete out the death sentence to Echegaray.

    In January 1999, a motion for a temporary restraining order was filed and was turned down by the justices. Panganiban in a separate opinion had written: “I maintain my view that RA 7659 (the Death Penalty Law) is unconstitutional insofar as some parts thereof prescribing the capital penalty to comply with the requirements of ‘heinousness’ and ‘compelling reasons’ prescribed by the Constitution ... This I have repeatedly stated in my Dissenting Opinions in various death cases decided by the Court.”

    “... Consequently, I cannot now vote to lift the TRO because to do so would mean the upholding and enforcement of a law (or the relevant portions thereof) which, I submit with all due respect, is unconstitutional.”

    Imperfect humans

    In a recent speech before the Free Legal Assistance Group, Panganiban reiterated his stand: “I maintain the view that the death penalty has no place in our legal firmament. Indeed, in spite of the meticulous scrutiny that the Supreme Court gives to death cases, it is still possible that an innocent person would be held legally guilty and thereafter judicially executed,” he said.

    “As humans are imperfect, judges can make wrongful evaluations. A perfectly innocent individual could die due to human error, not to mention the guile and deceit that could accompany trials. Once carried out, the death sentence can no longer be reversed or modified. This opinion is not a mere sterile speculation. It is real,” he said, citing the Echegaray case.

    Surreal outcome

    “Echegaray’s penalty should have been reduced to reclusion perpetua. In People of the Philippines v Gallo, the Court belatedly reduced the penalty to reclusion perpetua, even though the decision meting out death had already become final,” he lamented.

    “But the case of Echegaray is different. He is in the Great Beyond, and a correction of the judicial error can no longer resurrect him. I believe that the surreal outcome of this case reinforces the strongest reason why the death penalty has no place in our statute books,” he said. “After the execution of the appellant, errors in its imposition become nightmarishly irreversible.”

    Since the reimposition of the death penalty in 1993, only seven convicts have been executed by lethal injection. Since former President Joseph Estrada’s declaration of an 11-month moratorium on executions, in deference to the Catholic Church’s jubilee Year in 2000, no convict was put to death for the rest of the year.

    Review with care

    Panganiban said this no-execution policy was continued by President Macapagal-Arroyo who had asked Congress to immediately pass a legislation repealing the Death Penalty Law.

    Recently, the Senate and House of Representatives passed the measure seeking the abolition of RA 7659 from the country’s statute books.

    Panganiban said that although majority of the 15 justices of the high court held the view that RA 7659 was constitutional, they nonetheless reviewed death cases “with painstaking care,” resulting in the downgrading of the sentences of 651 death convicts from “either a remand for further proceedings, or a reduction of the sentence to reclusion perpetua (life imprisonment) or other lower penalties.”

    He said in only 230 of the 907 cases reviewed was the death sentence affirmed, while upon automatic review, the court acquitted 65 of those sentenced to death.

    He said the court was also adopting many more “error-free” measures to ensure that the innocent would not be sent to the death chamber.

  19. Join Date
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    #19
    Gov’t urged to pay Echegaray’s kin
    SC ‘error’ sparks call for compensation

    First posted 01:35am (Mla time) June 11, 2006
    By Juliet Labog-Javellana, Armand Nocum
    Inquirer

    FOR playing God, the government must pay.

    In what could be the most expensive “I am sorry” gesture the government could make, Senate Minority Leader and anti-death penalty advocate Aquilino Pimentel Jr. yesterday suggested an amount of between P5 million and P10 million as compensation to the family of Leo Echegaray for his “wrongful death.”

    Justice Secretary Raul Gonzalez appeared to agree but mentioned no specific amount.

    “The family of Echegaray may be entitled to compensation,” Gonzalez said. But he added the matter should be studied carefully lest the families of six other convicts who were put to death also seek compensation.

    “They may be considered to be a victim of wrongful violence ... If you consider the fact that no less than the Chief Justice talks about that, boy! That carries a lot of marbles ... and you cannot see the CJ speaking out of his hat,” Gonzalez said.

    Pimentel and Gonzalez were reacting to a statement by Chief Justice Artemio Panganiban, who said in a recent speech before members of the Free Legal Assistance Group that Echegaray might have been the victim of an “erroneous execution.”

    Echegaray was executed by lethal injection in 1999 after the Supreme Court affirmed his death sentence. He had been convicted of raping the 10-year-old daughter of his common-law wife.

    He was one of seven people convicted of heinous crimes and executed under the revived death penalty law, which Congress has decided to scrap.

    Pimentel and Sen. Edgardo Angara said in interviews that there should be a law granting compensation to families of people who suffer wrongful deaths at the hands of the state or its agents.

    Pimentel said he planned to file such a bill because the Philippines did not have such a law. He said there could even be a specific measure for the grant of monetary compensation to Echegaray’s family.

    “If Echegaray’s was really a wrongful execution, the government should pay his family an arbitrary amount of P5 million to P10 million as compensation,” Pimentel said.

    Gonzalez said there could still be a correction of the judicial error if Echegaray’s family availed of the provisions of the “compensation law for the innocent victims of crime.”

    However, he said that compensation might not be easy to obtain.

    ‘Analogy is clear’

    “In securing compensation for the victims of crime, literally you must be a victim of a crime, but here you cannot say Echegaray was a victim of a crime because he was convicted,” Gonzalez said of Echegaray’s case.

    “The analogy is quite clear. He committed a crime but he need not have died.”

    But beyond seeking compensation, Gonzalez doubted Echegaray’s family could get anything from the government for the supposed error of executing Echegaray.

    Asked whether the Echegaray heirs could sue the government, Gonzalez said: “I don’t think they can bring an action against the government ... I don’t think you can do that because the state is non-suable.”

    Neither can they go after the justices because the “performance of their duty is presumed to be regular,” Gonzalez said.

    Angara said Panganiban’s statement could “shake the people’s faith in the judiciary” and that the doubt he created in the court’s decision on Echegaray must be resolved.

    “Whether it’s valid or not, it should not be left hanging,” Angara said in a phone interview.

    Angara said that in the absence of a law compensating victims of wrongful deaths in the Philippines, the government should compensate Echegaray’s family ex-gracia, or out of generosity.

    Not court’s fault

    “What can be done here is the justice secretary can recommend to the President to grant monetary compensation,” Angara said.

    Senate Majority Leader Francis Pangilinan, original author of a bill abolishing the death penalty, said the failure to present evidence in court that Echegaray was not the parent of his victim was “not the fault of the court.”

    “There may be no legal obligation on the part of the state to provide compensation to the family of Echegaray for his ‘wrongful’ death but in the light of the statement of the Chief Justice, there may be a moral obligation on the part of the state to provide some form of relief,” Pangilinan said.

    “Considering that this is a novel case without legal precedent, the lawyers of the family of Echegaray may have to bring the matter to court and argue for the granting of such a relief, if any may be available,” he said.

    Angara said many states in the United States had laws requiring the state to compensate victims of wrongful deaths.

    “If you take one’s life wrongly, you must compensate,” he said.

    He said such cases applied not only to those erroneously subjected to the death penalty but also to victims of “gang-style killings” by the police or military authorities.

    Angara, however, has no plans of filing a wrongful death compensation bill. He said the courts and the government would be besieged by victims’ relatives claiming compensation.

    Reacting to an Inquirer story which stated that Panganiban voted to affirm Echegaray’s death conviction, Supreme Court spokesperson Ismael Khan said that Panganiban—along with Associate Justices Reynato Puno and Jose Vitug—voted against it in keeping with his position that the death penalty law was unconstitutional.

    Khan also said it was not only now that Panganiban had expressed his views about alleged errors in the execution of Echegaray, having written about the issue in his books “Leadership by Example” in 1999 and “Battles in the Supreme Court” in 1998.

    Panganiban has said that, although the complaint against Echegaray alleged that the victim was his daughter, it was not proved during the trial that he was either the father or stepfather, or even grandfather, of the girl, which would make his crime heinous and punishable by death.

    Thus, Panganiban said, Echegaray should not had been executed but meted out life imprisonment.

    In its 1996 ruling affirming Echegaray’s conviction, the high court concluded that he was “either the father or stepfather” of the girl based on the fact that she called him “Papa” and that he had provided for her food, shelter and education.

    A copy of the court’s decision showed that Panganiban concurred in it.

    “He is now in the Great Beyond, and a correction of the judicial error can no longer resurrect him. I believe that the surreal outcome of this case reinforces the strongest reason why the death penalty has no place in our statute books,” said Panganiban, a known opponent of capital punishment.

    Echegaray was sentenced to death by Quezon City Regional Trial Court Branch 104 on Sept. 7, 1994. He was convicted of the rape of his “daughter.”

    During the trial, Echegaray alleged his wife’s lover, not he, was the father of the victim.

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GMA to commute death sentences to life