Boycott the Big Four (Petron, Shell, Chevron, Total)= Cheaper Local Oil Prices?

[uls]

^^^ yes high oil price is caused by the weak dollar.

the Fed lowered interest rates from 5.25% to 2% to make funds easily available to banks... causing the value of the US dollar to drop very fast.

That caused panic among investors who have their wealth in dollar currency.

So to protect their wealth, they had to put their money in something that has upward momentum.

They saw high demand for oil and other commodities, and tight supply, so they knew prices would go up.

So they went into the commodities market to hitch a ride on rising commodities prices. (i think it's called a momentum play)

Commodities suddenly became the hottest investment. Tons and tons of money from all over poured into the commodities market... driving up prices very fast and very high.

People speculated on oil, grains etc.

So here we are. P60/liter unleaded, P40-P50/kilo rice.

That's how i understand what's happening.

That's why i don't go around blaming oil companies and rice traders.

[niky]

Compared to oil, PLDT products are deemed non-essential, luho lang.

Any increase in energy prices hurt much much more.

Yeah... hurt... but the fact that PLDT is more profitable than all the oil companies combined tells you one thing:

People are willing to spend thousands of pesos a month on a non-essential item... telephones.

Yet we start complaining when oil goes up?

-----

The big problem with a boycott is that it's patently ridiculous.

The driving factor for expensive oil is complex. It's not only the loose dollar, it's also the huge demand for oil.

China and India are experiencing industrial growth at an alarming rate. They need everything they can get their hands on... oil, steel, concrete, electricity... everything! And they need it now.now.now!!!

If the entire Philippines were to boycott oil... no problem... the suppliers of crude will happily sell it to China. Anyone with an eye on material prices will know this. Ever check the price of steel? Thanks to China, it now goes up every week!

Our local "overpricing" isn't bad. In fact, we have one of the lowest oil prices anywhere... and it's only going up now because of the "under-recovery" the oil-companies have been experiencing for the last few months. We can't compare to the US, because US gas prices are fixed at a much lower rate than the rest of the world because of lower taxes.

Don't take my word for it, though... here's a link:

http://www.yehey.com/news/Article.aspx?id=220465

“Our pump prices are lower than many of our neighbors,” Mrs. Arroyo said, adding the local cost of diesel, at P55.9 a liter, compared favorably with New Zealand’s P67, Hong Kong’s P71, and Thailand’s P60.

And that's even including the 12% EVAT that the transport groups want us to trash.

Elsewhere, prices are even higher. British diesel, last I remember, was around 100 pesos per liter.

For a so-called "Thinktank", I think IBON has completely missed the mark. Yes, the oil companies are in it to make a profit, but that's what business is. Profit. If you don't profit, you can't improve. And if you can't improve services, that means poor service, poor product, etcetera. That's what happened to the businesses sequestered by the Marcoses before. Over time, service deteriorated, terribly. The service we get from the "overpriced" Meralco and the privatized PLDT is far and away much better than it was before.

And anyone who wants government to control oil prices probably has a very short memory... I can remember the time when transport groups were striking to remove the OPSF... because when world oil prices would go down, the local prices would stay high because the government needed to rebuild the OPSF again, as it would be depleted to subsidize gas prices when world prices went up.

So... control prices... how? Subsidize them? With what? With the E-VAT that we would no longer pay on oil? Though the government isn't a business, it actually needs money to run. No money, no service.

The driving force for prices are demand-oriented. When China is no longer willing to pay for more expensive oil, prices will finally start to level off. Until then...

But then... it makes sense. Who funds the leftist groups? It used to be that the Chinese would send money to fund the CPP during the Cold War, right?

And if the CPP convinces the Filipino people to boycott gas... who wins? China! More gas for them!

[theveed]

It's easier to rally a boycott though :P

[Tailhook]

There is no issue as to the upward movement of the prices of fuel in the world. However, the point of the other posters is that these four are unfairly (unreasonably) profiting by pricing fuel over and above the rise in the world market. Ever notice that they make price adjustments almost at the same time and have the same prices? Pwede ba yun? That is indicative of a cartel wherein these oil companies directly or indirectly control the prices secure in the fact that any change in prices will be the same across all of them. What about competition?

There is likewise no issue that the oil companies are entitled to reasonable profit. But thats just it. It should be reasonable. With the amount of profits they realize year in and year out, ballooning in recent years which coincided with the spike in world oil prices speaks volumes of their scheme to excessively profit from it. The most profitable corporation in the world is exxon mobil. Geez. No wonder.

The original poster indicated that boycott only as to these four companies and to patronize other oil companies. He did not say to boycott buying fuel at all.

Anyway, indeed the better option would be to conserve fuel and energy. But why not at the same time refuse padding the income of these big four and buy from the other companies?

Overpricing is overpricing. Just because the oil companies here do not overprice as much as those in other countries is not a reason why we should not complain and take action against them.

[jpdm]

Boycott, means nothing? How come?

If means alot to any oil refilling stations. Masakit ang mawalan ng kostumer kada araw. So malaking bagay yan. Specially kung marami kang kostumers at lumipat sa ibang gas stations.That is the gist of the email.

Again, the idea is to boycott or stop gassing up IN SELECTED GAS (RETAIL) STATIONS ONLY. IF FACT, THE BIG 4 LANG yung target.

As if everything will crumble if we will stop going to Petron, Shell, Caltex and Total. E isang part lang naman ng business nila gas and diesel retailing or refueling station.

E di bumawi sila sa ibang paraan sa aviation fuel, Napocor supply contracts, supply contracts with other firms etc, LPG, CNG etc.....

Again, GAS STATIONs LANG NILA.

For me. OA na yang about this leftists thing. In fact if you will ask me, pakialam ko sa kanila. Nagpapagasolina ba talaga ang mga yan?

We have to do something at least as consumers. Reading between the lines some just want us to resign ourselves with the idea that they can do these things without any form of protestation from consumers like us.

The market will seek the best equilibrium price for the maximum benefit of both consumers and producers, yan ang spirit ng free market at ng deregulation law...Puwaahhh...:suka:

They can raise or roll back their prices at their whim.


Isa pa, paulit ulit ang daming oil refilling stations aside from the Big four. Fo the nth time, Unioil, USA88, Filoil, Seaoil, Flying V, Pioneer, Jetti, cge na nga Eastern Petroleum, PTT, Express, Argo, Orange at marami pang iba..


If we do nothing, we as consumers, as nothing also. We deserve such treatment from producers-like these leeches called the Big four oil companies.

We should exercise are right to choose. Go to other refuelling stations and if alot of people will do this we might hurt these oligopolists and we might force them to bring their price down.

[jpdm]

An email circulating around a very large local bank.....

Our lovely oil companies

P70 billion profits for Shell, Petron since deregulationThe Philippines' major oil companies, Pilipinas Shell Petroleum Corporation and Petron Corporation, collected almost P70 billion in combined net profits since Downstream Oil Industry Deregulation Law was implemented in 1998, First District of Cebu Representative Eduardo Gullas said in a press statement on Sunday.

"The Downstream Oil Industry Deregulation Law has definitely been a boon to the two oil refiners and other (industry) players," Gullas said.

Gullas said Shell posted P33.59 billion in cumulative net profits from 1998 to the first quarter of 2008, while partly state-owned Petron raked over P35.18 billion in the same period. The solon said he gathered the figures from the regulatory filings of the two oil refiners.

He accused the oil companies of taking advantage to the skyrocketing world oil prices by enjoying their pricing power to pump up their prices. Crude oil prices hit historic highs above $140 a barrel a few weeks ago and are currently hovering above $130 a barrel.

Citing underecoveries, oil companies have raised diesel and kerosene prices 20 times since the start of the year, adding about P22 to P24 per liter. They have also raised gasoline prices 19 times, by a total of about P19 per liter.


Fat profits

This year, Shell's bottomline is expected to increase further. For the first three months of 2008 alone, Shell already reported a net profit of P3.1 billion, more than half of its 2005 to 2007 average annual profit of P5.41 billion

Petron's annual profits averaged P6.03 billion during the same three years. From January to March this year, posted a net profit of P658 million.

The financial performance Chevron Phils., Inc., (formerly Caltex Philippines Inc.), the third of the so-called Big 3 oil firms, is not readily available. Chevron is no longer subject to the same rigorous disclosure and financial reporting rules that apply to Shell and Petron. Chevron now merely operates a finished petroleum product import terminal in Batangas with the capacity to store 2.7 million barrels.

Chevron nonetheless last reported a net profit of P2.75 billion in 2006.

Yan ang mga nalulugi...bwiset..

[jpdm]

[quote]

Yeah... hurt... but the fact that PLDT is more profitable than all the oil companies combined tells you one thing:
People are willing to spend thousands of pesos a month on a non-essential item... telephones.
Yet we start complaining when oil goes up? [/quote]

Baka naman bulk ng kita PLDT galing sa mga heavy users like the government, OFW and companies.

The big problem with a boycott is that it's patently ridiculous.

Its RIDICULOUS if you are boycotting ALL OIL COMPANIES AND YOU STOP GASSING UP. MAY SAYAD na ULO TALAGA ng GAGAWA NUN. The email talks about boycotting selected oil companies only and switch to other oil companies.

For a so-called "Thinktank", I think IBON has completely missed the mark. Yes, the oil companies are in it to make a profit, but that's what business is. Profit. If you don't profit, you can't improve. And if you can't improve services, that means poor service, poor product, etcetera. That's what happened to the businesses sequestered by the Marcoses before. Over time, service deteriorated, terribly. The service we get from the "overpriced" Meralco and the privatized PLDT is far and away much better than it was before.

How come they miss the point?

No contention, its a fact, firms must earn profit, if they will not earn they should not be in business.

Ang punto ng IBon, tama ba yung margin or profit? Baka naman mega profit na. Isa pa, totoo kaya yang ni--re-report nilang (BIg 4) FS?

E wala ring pinagkaiba sa almost monopoly na Meralco na ganun din ang ginagwa katulad ng oil companies they justify high prices (rates) because they need to improve their inefficiency? bakit tayo magbabayad sa inefficiency nila ( for meralco-system loss charge; for oil companies-inefficient operations)

And anyone who wants government to control oil prices probably has a very short memory... I can remember the time when transport groups were striking to remove the OPSF... because when world oil prices would go down, the local prices would stay high because the government needed to rebuild the OPSF again, as it would be depleted to subsidize gas prices when world prices went up.

The email is NOT about asking for price control. Only to exercise our right to choose. There is a need to tell in any way that as consumers we have the power to choose. In an oligopolistic situation (created by the BIg four), the only way is to go outside--meaning look for alternatives
, meron naman e di katulad nuong regulated pa (but we have the government and Petron then).

Anyway, the price of oil then is still much much lower compared today.

So... control prices... how? Subsidize them? With what? With the E-VAT that we would no longer pay on oil? Though the government isn't a business, it actually needs money to run. No money, no service.

The people is subsidizing the government and not the other way around. EVAT is an indirect tax, slap directly on all people regardless if they have the ability to pay or they have not. Di ba hindi yung spirit ng taxation?

First, subsidize?.Pinapaalis lang naman ang EVAT sa OIL LANG. Yung EVAT sa ibang transactions should remain.

Tsaka, ang daming puedeng i-tax ng gobyerno. At the same time, the government should be serious in plugging the tax leaks. Smuggling, isa na yun. Sa BIR. Alisin yung tax perks na inaabuso naman.

The driving force for prices are demand-oriented. When China is no longer willing to pay for more expensive oil, prices will finally start to level off. Until then..

.

You mean oil prices? Di lang, may non-price factors of demand and supply.

But then... it makes sense. Who funds the leftist groups? It used to be that the Chinese would send money to fund the CPP during the Cold War, right?

Sorry, OA na yan.stick to the issue.Walang kinalaman yung mga maiingay na yun.

And if the CPP convinces the Filipino people to boycott gas... who wins? China! More gas for them!

OT na yan. panahon pa ng Cold war yan issue na yan.its 2008. Neoliberal regime na ngayon.

[Jun aka Pekto]

It could work. I mean even here, we patronize gas stations with lower prices. But for it to work, the smaller gas stations need a ready and steady source which is New Mexico next door.

A daily check shows these smaller companies cannot sustain the low prices for long and have to jack up their prices again. Whether that's due to stockpiles getting lower or not I'm not sure. But, they seesaw up and down every few days.

The good thing is, there's enough "local" gas stations around. So, a few are always bound to have lower prices. It's a matter of filling up when prices are near their lowest.

The bigger international companies don't seem to be too concerned because there's enough out of state traffic who can't be bothered to go too far off the interstate and fill up at the nearest convenient gas station which tend to be owned by the bigger companies.

Whether the same can apply to Manila and the rest of the Philippines I'm not sure. It depends on how the gas supply is set up over there.

[empy]

let me repeat this one more time - reporting that a company makes Pxx billion or whatever doesn't really tell the whole story if you are going to accuse them of profiteering. you have to look at their margins. just for the sake of argument, if an oil company made P35 billion in profit out of sales of P35 trillion, then that company is definitely not profiteering with a profit margin of only 1%. just as an example.

remember, it's only profiteering if the company is making a big profit (duh). Exxon Mobil is the company with the biggest profit in the world in terms of dollars, but because of the huge investments they have to make, their net income is only 10 cents out of every dollar they sell. somebody tell me that's profiteering! :rofl01:

if we want to attack Big Oil, why don't we first boycott:

1. our local music shop for selling a CD for hundreds that probably cost 10 pesos to make

2. the pharmaceutical companies for selling medicine at 100x what it cost to make them (never mind that just like oil companies, they have to pay for not just that product's R&D, but also the R&D for all the other ventures that didn't pay off)

3. coca-cola for charging P50 for fizzy sugar water

4. your local bar for selling you the same bottle of San Miguel that you buy in the supermarket at 5x the price

shall i go on with more, BETTER examples of profiteering? heck, we can even boycott the local manghihilot for charging for a product that not only costs practically nothing, but has no intrinsic value anyway :bwahaha:

[empy]

double posting ftw!