"e-Jeepney" - The electric powered jeepney

[kitsons]

I have my doubts if Kitsons even understood what he posted above because the last portion has data/information missing.

Hindi nagkasya to submit the whole text and data so cut off where I could.

Complete details are with the study on biogas generation from different types of bio-digesters; of methane and other gasses produced; and what chemical transformation occur with the presence of different quantities of the carbon/nitrogen ratios, all specifically presented in the study made in Ethiopia.

Out of topic na rin on this thread discussion on the specific technical details on biogas power generation... as also the personal undermining done. Let us not show our underwear here guys.

It would be more civilized first to inquire first than to give such personal negative judgments more especially on revered schools... That is being good mannered and having right conduct which should be the rule in discussions.

[romski123]

get back to the topic guys. GH pls edit yours and others personal unrelated attacks. what school did you come from. sheesh. MODS!

[kitsons]

BTW. As off hand studies operating a bigogas power generator makes an integrated approach to operating e-vehicle fleets more than free. Projected incomes from two main staple industries of RP would generate incomes that can be raised a thousand plus per cent as is being generated presently.

The key area of concern is maintaining change battery depots along routes where the service vehicles are to ply.

Other area that needs configuring is producing enough HP to carry bigger loads. At present the only electric motor that we know off sold in the market is the two HP one that can be directly attached with the bell housing. Have not fully researched on this as we are working on the design of the micro power generating plants that can produce one megawatt which I was informed by an electrical engineer associate that it would be enough to power up to five baranggays. Can you imagine if every baranggay had such a plant and consolidated into an MPC... tapos na kwento.

Did some computing that for a rural municipality that ranges from 20 to 60 plus baranggays, no more than 20 megawatts would only be needed and the municipality can actually operate e-jeepneys viably since major fuel expense can be eliminated. Kaya lang, la pera dito para sa corrupt kaya only a handful may be open to the concept.

Just to add on the viability:

The mechanical engineer who is working on designing the boiler and steam engine configuration to power the electric generators said that if we just need to power the fram produce processing plant and just e-vehicles, we only need around .12 megawatt of power and the required HP for that is small thus biogas required is within the minimum managemeability with the use of multiple feedstock of which the by-product is still farm inputs the removes the need for fertilizers to make acost efficient loop that would increase profit margins.

He agreed though with me that having half a megawatt is safer as need may come up with product diversification. We agreed to come up with two .5 megawatt power generation plants to have continuous power generation in case of breakdowns and maintenance servicing.

What he needed was the data that I got so he can compute the BTU's configuration to steam production and the exact power needed to produce the half megawatt electricity.

We do things professionally and really look for flaws with the R&D to ensure higher probability of success in our undertaking. Charlatans go nowhere.

[kitsons]

get back to the topic guys. GH pls edit yours and others personal unrelated attacks. what school did you come from. sheesh. MODS!

I hope you guys do not mind this out of topic input on faster response on tsikot.com postings and getting into threads and moving around.

Common complaint is that tsikot is slow to moving around the site and postings. Have just recently been using opera as server and am surprised at the speed now achieved in moving around tsikot. You can download the opera Norwegian based server but takes about two hour and half to do so. I was informed also that it is more secure since it does not operate with spywares as all the US based servers have that slows down the system.

[kitsons]

Still nit-picking...

Horsepower and watts are both measures of "power". Just one is in english and the other is in metric.

Like in the conversion formula:

HP x 746 = watts

or

HP x 0.746 = kilowatts


In the same way that a car engine's output can be measured either in horsepower or kilowatts.

BTW, forgot about this equation, electrical engineer shared this with me but somehow lost it from memory. Age? However, to convert this HP to work needs the electric motor and to create the megawatts another engine either steam or combustion as presently done is needed.

Thanks for reminding gh.

Sorry again for the out of topic thank you here but I feel obligated since really major factor for consideration in coming up with affordable if not free electricity for the e-jeepneys.

[ghosthunter]

BTW, forgot about this equation, electrical engineer shared this with me but somehow lost it from memory. Age? However, to convert this HP to work needs the electric motor and to create the megawatts another engine either steam or combustion as presently done is needed.

Thanks for reminding gh.

Sorry again for the out of topic thank you here but I feel obligated since really major factor for consideration in coming up with affordable if not free electricity for the e-jeepneys.

This is why I was asking you which school and what major you took. No insults intended (at least from me).

As a mechanical engineer graduate, I am familiar with these equations and how these can relate with the e-jeep topic at hand even if we seem to be currently off the main discussion.

A chemistry background would have less emphasis on these areas. No age issues related assuming you still work/practice in the same industry of your degree.

[ghosthunter]

I hope you guys do not mind this out of topic input on faster response on tsikot.com postings and getting into threads and moving around.

Common complaint is that tsikot is slow to moving around the site and postings. Have just recently been using opera as server and am surprised at the speed now achieved in moving around tsikot. You can download the opera Norwegian based server but takes about two hour and half to do so. I was informed also that it is more secure since it does not operate with spywares as all the US based servers have that slows down the system.

I use FIREFOX with a few plug-ins which cuts out the loading advertisements, etc which helps making the forum load much faster.

[ghosthunter]

Just to add on the viability:

The mechanical engineer who is working on designing the boiler and steam engine configuration to power the electric generators said that if we just need to power the fram produce processing plant and just e-vehicles, we only need around .12 megawatt of power and the required HP for that is small thus biogas required is within the minimum managemeability with the use of multiple feedstock of which the by-product is still farm inputs the removes the need for fertilizers to make acost efficient loop that would increase profit margins.

He agreed though with me that having half a megawatt is safer as need may come up with product diversification. We agreed to come up with two .5 megawatt power generation plants to have continuous power generation in case of breakdowns and maintenance servicing.

What he needed was the data that I got so he can compute the BTU's configuration to steam production and the exact power needed to produce the half megawatt electricity.

We do things professionally and really look for flaws with the R&D to ensure higher probability of success in our undertaking. Charlatans go nowhere.

Viable but far from being "free".

Anyway, having a target power output of the powerplant is already enough to compute for the BTUs needed to generate the said amount of power.

Knowing the BTUs needed, you can compute how much fuel (mass of fuel per hour) required to generate the required amount of steam at required the pressure.

Knowing the amount of fuel needed to run the power plant per day, you can compute the required amount of bio-mass to generate the required amount of methane gas since bio-gas is already pretty much a science.

Have you done your math yet? That methane storage tank (assuming storage will be uncompressed) will be very big just to fuel the boilers for a day. And I know you will need a tank big enough to buffer enough fuel to last at least a few days. Is there enough land at the proposed site to build such a methane storage tank without violating safety rules and land use laws?

I don't know about your mechanical engineer (or I am just rusty) but is it not running a powerplant at 25% of max rated capacity might be inefficient even if assuming load increases over time.

A boiler, steam turbine and electric generator good for 0.5 Megawatts. Methane storage facilities, biogas generators and all the skilled and unskilled labor required to run such a facility. And transport for all the bio-mass needed to feed the biogas generators/digesters.

Sounds expensive to setup and run. Far from the "free" you were saying earlier.

And who ends up paying for this? The government again using tax payer's money?

[ghosthunter]

Kitsons posted:

We do things professionally and really look for flaws with the R&D to ensure higher probability of success in our undertaking. Charlatans go nowhere.

The fact is that all the above mentioned supposed "R&D" could have been done BEFORE the launch of the e-jeep. My friends, back in college, could have done the all theoretical calculations within a day.

Doing all of that "after the fact" is just fixing what is broken from the start.

[ghosthunter]

BTW. As off hand studies operating a bigogas power generator makes an integrated approach to operating e-vehicle fleets more than free. Projected incomes from two main staple industries of RP would generate incomes that can be raised a thousand plus per cent as is being generated presently.

The key area of concern is maintaining change battery depots along routes where the service vehicles are to ply.

Other area that needs configuring is producing enough HP to carry bigger loads. At present the only electric motor that we know off sold in the market is the two HP one that can be directly attached with the bell housing. Have not fully researched on this as we are working on the design of the micro power generating plants that can produce one megawatt which I was informed by an electrical engineer associate that it would be enough to power up to five baranggays. Can you imagine if every baranggay had such a plant and consolidated into an MPC... tapos na kwento.

Did some computing that for a rural municipality that ranges from 20 to 60 plus baranggays, no more than 20 megawatts would only be needed and the municipality can actually operate e-jeepneys viably since major fuel expense can be eliminated. Kaya lang, la pera dito para sa corrupt kaya only a handful may be open to the concept.

Operating a big bio-gas fueled powerplant may have it's advantages of scale but it will be also much more expensive to set up (multi-millions) and operating and maintain such a facility will definitely not be free as skilled personnel will be needed just to keep it running properly.

And being that simply recharging the e-jeep's batteries is the primary concern, a more down to earth, compact & cheaper setup would be more effective.

In this case, a standard gasoline-fed generator adapted to be fueled by methane would be the better solution. Also since it will only recharge the battery, it doesn't need to operate 24/7. Such equipment & spare parts can be bought off the shelf. No special training needed to run the rig.


BTW, I wouldn't want to be living near your proposed bio-gas fueled power station because the potential danger of the methane storage tank exploding like a giant bomb. Not something you want the barangay to have & operate like their barangay hall.

And I think it's against the law to construct a power station in the middle of a residential community, even if it's downsized. Something sized like a toppled over phone-booth (example: a genset with a soundproof enclosure) might be better accepted.

[ghosthunter]

get back to the topic guys. GH pls edit yours and others personal unrelated attacks. what school did you come from. sheesh. MODS!

I guess it's worth it, given it's the only thing that seems to get a rise from you guys to post beyond another re-posted news article about your product(s).

[OyiL]

I guess it's worth it, given it's the only thing that seems to get a rise from you guys to post beyond another re-posted news article about your product(s).

i guess that means you miss us a lot. a real lot. so you resort to insults and post deletion to make us come on board.

[marg]

A boiler, steam turbine and electric generator good for 0.5 Megawatts. Methane storage facilities, biogas generators and all the skilled and unskilled labor required to run such a facility. And transport for all the bio-mass needed to feed the biogas generators/digesters.

Sounds expensive to setup and run. Far from the "free" you were saying earlier.

And who ends up paying for this? The government again using tax payer's money?

Not to mention, you need to rent a space in expensive Makati. A leased space for such a facility would cost at least P50,000/month or more.

After everything, you will find out it would be cheaper and less cumbersome to just plug in to the non-green Meralco line.

[ghosthunter]

i guess that means you miss us a lot. a real lot. so you resort to insults and post deletion to make us come on board.

If you want me to undelete your post. Why not.

Here is your post (undeleted):
http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showp...&postcount=958

those who know more about the facts should educate instead of throwing insults. i know that no school includes insult throwing as part of their offered curriculum. but im beginning to think that i have been wrong all the time. ganyan ba turo sa la salle? marg, san ka nag-aral? ganyan be turo sa pinag-aralan mong school? andywest?

kung matatalino at edukado kayo, itama nyo ang pagkakamali sa tamang paraan. matuto kayo magrespeto.

And you are still posting nonsense which is the primary reason why I deleted your previous post.

Frankly I don't see you posting any differently right now.

Whatever you would call my posts on this thread, I still add to the general information on this thread. Can you say the same about your recent posts? Or are you down to just heckling from the sidelines?

So starting now Oyil, if you are going to post anything on this thread, make sure you are adding to the thread otherwise I will delete them.

[kitsons]

If you want me to undelete your post. Why not.

Here is your post (undeleted):
http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showp...&postcount=958


And you are still posting nonsense which is the primary reason why I deleted your previous post.

Frankly I don't see you posting any differently right now.

Whatever you would call my posts on this thread, I still add to the general information on this thread. Can you say the same about your recent posts? Or are you down to just heckling from the sidelines?

So starting now Oyil, if you are going to post anything on this thread, make sure you are adding to the thread otherwise I will delete them.

gh your postings dating parang debate hindi discussion as you tend to point out certain points stated but simply do not put it in focus with the totality of the post as in viability is not free. you did not put in the configuration the incomes generated by the "free" power generation is an offset situation wherein start up capital required to set up the power generating plant is eventually compensated and that there is enough incomes generated byt the use of a small power generating plant even enough for its maintenance and replacement of parts consume3d in operations.

If you really know biogas generation, you would know the different types of biogas generators of which there is a type wherein there is continuous feedstock flow that would make storage not that big asthe biogas is consumed thusremoved from storage.

Maya industries have actually been using the technology for decades since the late 60's nga ba or early 70's, I forget exactly when they started but read in the news that they totally produced their own electricity requirements for their food processing facilityies.

My friend who leaved at the back of the atomic research ceneter have been in fact using a small biodigester of which I was informed that according to their experience two kgs of organic material actually produces for them one hour of cooking flame for their two burner lpg stgove. They utilized only 700 sq m that even include a 200 sq m floor areqa for their house and the two pigs, a handful of chicken some papaya trees and around a hundred sq m of rice paddy was sufficient enough to supply them the biogas needed for cooking their meal that they never bough lpg edver since they bought their small biodigester, a cylindrical pressure tank looking gadget less than 6 feet high and less than two feet in diameter. Juxtapose this with the situation of a 2,00 hectare agricultural area or even a tall office building with perhaps a thousand people working in them... there are big possibilities.

The actual real experiences of people who have used the technology though are not engineers. My friend's father was a noted cardiac surgeon and the mom was the known as the original green advocate and a professional nurse who have been practicing zero waste management. No garbage go out of their place except bottles and cans which some suki scavenger picks up every Saturday.

In our working group of associates, we do not cut down people in a personalan way but we express our hesitancies on proposal with direct pointing out what we think is wrong with issues... however, before we do point out issues, we first ask one another for explanations in areas where we are not so knowledgeable in aspects then when we are only sure that our opposition holds water, then we shoot. The beuty about it is that we all come from different backgrounds so we view things from different angles and thus we get to see a more rounded perspective of reaching our objectives.

By having this disposition of being supportive rather than confrontational, we work with no bruised feelings that hinder us from moving on towards our goal.

Some of the discussions in this thread reminds me of the discussions in one web group I got involved in the past where the owner moderator began censoring and so the five major contributors to good ideas for the supposed cause oriented would be organization dropped out with me also.

Nagkapikahan kasi as things got personal since discussions became debates and debate tac-tics were used as irritating people to get them off guard, proof texting, begging the question and other fallacies that it came to a point di na usapan on the objective of the group was the constant topic but divisive personal views on life in general and face-saving as well as pataasan ng ihi.

Whereas before more than 20 prolific posters posted with new ones coming in, now I receive email from the web group from only the supposed appointed president of the stillborn cause oriented organization and about two others of the same camp who never really contributed much to giving ideas on how to pursue the objective of the web group. I have not unsubscribed cause if the moderator owner would only have remorse for the high handed way he treated those with views against him, I would still be there to help the group get back on its feet again as I found the objective of the group really worthy to pursue.

In contrast, there are a few of us here in tsikot who have been silently working together and thank God, at last we may have something come to reality. We maintain confidentiality as we know that there are certain personalities that really are not the supportive type who may be more of a liability to reaching objectives.

At any rate, as mentioned we are still doing our R&D to configure what is needed to operate a viable biogas power generator involving others not with tsikot also.

We actually can go conventional with the use of an incinerator using crop waste as a friend in Negros has done wherein he was able to generate 54 megawatts of electricity from burning bagasse with a seven storey high boiler producing steam for a steam turbine. Wish I had discussed with him about ROI's and payback period to assist financial study involving time and motion on the micro power generating plant.

Seems ideas from the the thread is thinning out as seems is turning into a debate here so if the discussion is really on who is a better man rather than sorting out ides bow na me.

I was hoping to get inputs to help build a biogas power generation system to enable the e-jeepneys to get on the road but if no constructive ideas to help in this objective comes out of this thread, I guess, giving ideas to the group of which we are already studying may be just a waste of time since apparently there is no interest in pursuing the approach to making the e-jeepney viable by allowing a self-liquidating self-sustaining system of power generation to be set up.

Do not want to venture on why such is, but simply just rest my case here and continue with our research quietly with the guys am working with.

Am posting this for the purpose of perhaps giving ideas on how to better manage discussions so it may be more constructive to benefit one and all.

I just hope the personal attacks would end and serious discussions on how to make the e-jeepneys get on the road are posted. If however this thread is a debate of whether the e-jeepney should be on the road or not. I do not belong here since I personally have the stand that it is a must for e-vehicles replace fossil fuel combustion engines with the catastrophic damage they have caused to our environment that have caused even climate changes that have killed thousands and rendered millions homeless.

There is much to do to assist in giving solutions, really a waste of time debating when the problem is blatantly in front of our faces.

[ghosthunter]

*Kitsons

Maybe the problem is you are trying too much on add on the concept of the e-jeepney which already has a very negative reception on the people here?

Frankly the problem with the e-jeepney is the people behind it does not want to admit to it's (obvious) shortcomings. That may come out as deception to people which doesn't help the issue more.

So if you see it that way, then you try adding "free electricity" to the issue, you will just get mixed up with the existing problem.

Maybe you can see it that way with the current reception you are having.

If you are arguing about debate tactics being used, it is probably because normal technical/financial discussions have been ignored or totally getting nowhere. As earlier mentioned, it seems to be the only way to get a rise out of them to even respond in any sort of matter (aside from the occasional reposting of news articles).

Maybe the problem is how the "topic" was presented? E-jeepney "monitor thread"? What kind of topic is that? It is like someone asking people to "look at my creation and be astonished". The problem there is not that, the problem is the "creation" is kinda riddled with problems and shortcomings. Not a problem if the people behind it admits to them and accepts suggestions.

Anyway, if you still want to get advise and suggestions and other inputs/help for your farm waste power plant ideas, I strongly suggest to start a new discussion thread away from this "research subforum" which already has too much negative feelings from the people here.

I still think there are still many people who are willing to contribute, only if it was presented in the correct manner. Just review the other threads about car owners asking for help and you will see a very different attitude being presented.

Sometimes the issue behind it all is not as clear as we might think.

[marg]

Kitsons,

Why don't you give us a financial run-down of what it takes to run a biogas project in the middle of Makati.

Then we will decide if it truly is "Free" as you claim.

[ghosthunter]

this is not personal....just my observations.

For someone who ASKED for his account to be BANNED, I find it questionable why you still want to post here.

Did someone call your bluff?

[ghost buster]

Lurker for the longest time of this thread. Finally decided to post. Found it in the internet. And Im positive about the e-jeepney.

We’re in Top Gear!
Editor's note: Steven Yu writes about stepping into the shoes of an eJeepney navigator in this month’s Top Gear magazine (August 2010 issue). Grab a copy of the magazine’s 4th annual green issue now, featuring green, eco-friendly cars.

http://ejeepney.org/content/we%E2%80%99re-top-gear

[ghosthunter]

Lurker for the longest time of this thread. Finally decided to post. Found it in the internet. And Im positive about the e-jeepney.

Yeah right ... And I am so sure your handle has nothing to do with mine?

Especially your first two posts (of a newly created account) landed squarely on the two electric vehicle threads (3 wheelers and this one).

I am sure finding what you found wasn't a big accident especially the source where it's posted. hay!