"e-Jeepney" - The electric powered jeepney

[niky]

650k is good. The electric buses used at MOA before cost up to 750k for the long wheelbase versions that are equivalent to the e-Jeep. (that supplier is now out of business). There were eight-seater versions that were significantly cheaper, though. About 150k less than the e-Jeep.

The big problem is ensuring battery longevity. A charge-balancing system would go a long way to extending useable battery life, but would increase the unit cost of the jeep.

[romski123]

650k is good. The electric buses used at MOA before cost up to 750k for the long wheelbase versions that are equivalent to the e-Jeep. (that supplier is now out of business). There were eight-seater versions that were significantly cheaper, though. About 150k less than the e-Jeep.

The big problem is ensuring battery longevity. A charge-balancing system would go a long way to extending useable battery life, but would increase the unit cost of the jeep.

the battery is not a big problem we use balancers and thermal probes when we recharge.
the batteries we are using are almost one year old and we have not had any problems.

the main problem of ev suppliers right now is after sales service. the other players who have closed down simply smuggled units from China and did not think about servicing the units in the future.

we stand by our locally produced EVs. We service and maintain them. And parts are available.

[donbuggy]

Welcome to Tsikot, Summerellie. I'm looking forward to reading your posts in the Tsikot politics thread.

[niky]

the battery is not a big problem we use balancers and thermal probes when we recharge.
the batteries we are using are almost one year old and we have not had any problems.

the main problem of ev suppliers right now is after sales service. the other players who have closed down simply smuggled units from China and did not think about servicing the units in the future.

we stand by our locally produced EVs. We service and maintain them. And parts are available.

The aftersales and charging are really problems you have to address in your literature and promotional material.

Many people were burned by this issue (note: not all were using Chinese units... some were using US units... but still no charge balancers) and given that these people represent potential fleet customers (such as SM), the spreading of negative perception in this manner to other potential fleet customers (since it comes from firsthand accounts of EV users) is a danger to any new EV start-up or company.

BTW: are you open to selling charge balancers and replacement packs to former clients of these other concerns? I might know a few people in need. ;)

[ghosthunter]

hi tine,

nice to read your blog. Thanks for sharing.

Ikaw? Happy ka naman sa ejeepney diba? No fumes, no noise, and helps your slippers to stay fresh and new!

Don't listen to the "wanna be" experts here in tsikot.

you are much more of an expert and a more credible resource person since you have actually ridden one.

Ghosthunter is always on the lookout for something bad to say about them. Sad really since all the information he relies on is whatever he googles in front of his computer. (naarawan kaya sya?)

Don't believe his battery horror stories. As he has read them as well. All theory, no practice.

visit this website: http://www.ejeepney.org/ to learn more about the ejeepney inititative.

and watch this:
YouTube- Philippines' dirty jeepneys starting to turn green

Of course you can listen to the die hard advocates of the e-jeepney who would do anything to promote their product.

That would include withholding of information regarding the e-jeepney that could be taken as a problem. That would include battery pack replacement costs, battery life/longevity, actual operating cost, actual purchase cost (e-jeepney PLUS charging system) among the information so far missing.

Such information would be important to any potential purchases of the e-jeepney yet it is somehow unavailable.

Of course, romski123 will respond saying I am so negative about the e-jeepney and will bash about it to no ends.

But all in the end, I am just being a practical person asking practical questions.

[kitsons]

Of course you can listen to the die hard advocates of the e-jeepney who would do anything to promote their product.

That would include withholding of information regarding the e-jeepney that could be taken as a problem. That would include battery pack replacement costs, battery life/longevity, actual operating cost, actual purchase cost (e-jeepney PLUS charging system) among the information so far missing.

Such information would be important to any potential purchases of the e-jeepney yet it is somehow unavailable.

Of course, romski123 will respond saying I am so negative about the e-jeepney and will bash about it to no ends.

But all in the end, I am just being a practical person asking practical questions.

[SIZE=4]Same with me ghosthunter about practicality and pragmatic view and not limited perspective to such views should bring out all the kinks that need addressing for the e-vehicle to succeeding in being the leading transport used for RP. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]
Seems the possibility of proper maintenance to ensure that batteries last would be costly and cumbersome for owners of oneor two of these e-vehicles. A fleet however seems to support enough economies of scale to ensure such battery longevity since the paraphernalia needed as balancers and thermal probes and possible battery replacement stations so that batteries are not used over the point of slow deterioration.

But then again another major problem is the cost of electricity here in RP is a bit steep.

Last tried to compute how much electricity required to charge of the Miev, I used the standard 30 amperes times 220 volts to come up with the wattage and multiplied to the 8 hours to come up with the kwh.

Multiplied with an average billing of P22 kwh per hour and a range of 85 km peer charge, came up with equivalent of P155 per liter of diesel equivalent. This was more than 500% of cost of diesel then.

Thought later though that my assumption of wattage needed to charge the batteries probably is wrong since chargers does not necessarily use the full power available from ordinary household.

Appreciate if anyone can give the wattage needed for charging so can compute cost comparison for difference between fossil fuel with electric run vehicle consumption.

Thanks

PS - Makati E-jeeps got no problem on the cost of charging the batteries, though not sure if the cost of operating the dump methane extraction and power generations is efficient enough not to be a burden on the tax payers.

Am for e-vehicles but present numerous kinks need ironing out to make them cost efficient enough to compete against present combustion engines.[/SIZE]

[kitsons]

[SIZE=4]Same with me ghosthunter about practicality and pragmatic view and not limited perspective to such views should bring out all the kinks that need addressing for the e-vehicle to succeeding in being the leading transport used for RP. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]
Seems the possibility of proper maintenance to ensure that batteries last would be costly and cumbersome for owners of oneor two of these e-vehicles. A fleet however seems to support enough economies of scale to ensure such battery longevity since the paraphernalia needed as balancers and thermal probes and possible battery replacement stations so that batteries are not used over the point of slow deterioration.

But then again another major problem is the cost of electricity here in RP is a bit steep.

Last tried to compute how much electricity required to charge of the Miev, I used the standard 30 amperes times 220 volts to come up with the wattage and multiplied to the 8 hours to come up with the kwh.

Multiplied with an average billing of P22 kwh per hour and a range of 85 km peer charge, came up with equivalent of P155 per liter of diesel equivalent. This was more than 500% of cost of diesel then.

Thought later though that my assumption of wattage needed to charge the batteries probably is wrong since chargers does not necessarily use the full power available from ordinary household.

Appreciate if anyone can give the wattage needed for charging so can compute cost comparison for difference between fossil fuel with electric run vehicle consumption.

Thanks

PS - Makati E-jeeps got no problem on the cost of charging the batteries, though not sure if the cost of operating the dump methane extraction and power generations is efficient enough not to be a burden on the tax payers.

Am for e-vehicles but present numerous kinks need ironing out to make them cost efficient enough to compete against present combustion engines.

[/SIZE][SIZE=4]Reread my post and tried the hyperlinks. Seems guy who attaches htmls got sense of humor that actually creates added emphasis on cost of electricity. Hyperlink is on advertisement concerning High Blood pressure. Shows just how high electricity cost here in RP.[/SIZE]

[ghosthunter]

Nothing is ever "free".

Makati City's idea of "free" electricity to recharge the e-jeepney fleet seems nice and green but open land big enough to have a methane gas generator and a methane fueled power station in Metro Manila will cost millions of pesos.

That doesn't include the cost of labor to operate such a labor intensive facility.

And who would be paying for the cost of the actual setting up of the facility?

Like i said, I am just being a practical person asking practical questions.

[kitsons]

Nothing is ever "free".

Makati City's idea of "free" electricity to recharge the e-jeepney fleet seems nice and green but open land big enough to have a methane gas generator and a methane fueled power station in Metro Manila will cost millions of pesos.

That doesn't include the cost of labor to operate such a labor intensive facility.

And who would be paying for the cost of the actual setting up of the facility?

Like i said, I am just being a practical person asking practical questions.

[SIZE=4]There is a way to make energy production practically almost free except with coming up with the necessary equipment. Relative to length of use and amount of electricity produce, off hand the cost of equipment becomes negligible.

Politics though is qa bit involved since the power genertion i big players in in the industry will simply not take the beating from small power generating plants lying down ... and that where the trouble is.[/SIZE]

[ghosthunter]

There is a way to make energy production practically almost free except with coming up with the necessary equipment. Relative to length of use and amount of electricity produce, off hand the cost of equipment becomes negligible.

The costs to harness energy is never negligible especially when you are talking about renewable sources of electricity.

"Free" energy (with today's level of technology) is an illusion of marketing hype.

In the case of the power generator for the e-jeepney project, it has to be relatively small enough to fit within a city lot.

[kitsons]

The costs to harness energy is never negligible especially when you are talking about renewable sources of electricity.

"Free" energy (with today's level of technology) is an illusion of marketing hype.

In the case of the power generator for the e-jeepney project, it has to be relatively small enough to fit within a city lot.

As per study, using a bio-digester and boiler fueled by bio waste for fueling the power generating system can fit in a city lot. the problem is getting a constant supply of bio-waste.

[ghosthunter]

As per study, using a bio-digester and boiler fueled by bio waste for fueling the power generating system can fit in a city lot. the problem is getting a constant supply of bio-waste.

Exactly! Makati is not farm country. So the fresh manure (aka sh!t) has to be trucked in from elsewhere.

Even if the manure is given free, transportation is not free. With the ever increasing cost of fuel and road tolls, transportation will not be cheap.

[kitsons]

Exactly! Makati is not farm country. So the fresh manure (aka sh!t) has to be trucked in from elsewhere.

Even if the manure is given free, transportation is not free. With the ever increasing cost of fuel and road tolls, transportation will not be cheap.

Does not necessarily have to be manure. Any organic material can be used.

Friend's family has been using a small bio-digester for more than 40 years a the produces one hour of cooking gas for a two burner gas stove with only a kilo of organic materials: leaves, offal, a little chicken and hog manure, leftovers etc.

Friend informed that high fat content of organic material produces more gas.

By product of liquid compost they fertilize some fruit trees and a small rice plot in their 700 sqm. lot behind the Nuclear Research Center near UP, Diliman.

Makati as info read somewhere utilizes a dump-site to extract methane. Cost of land use think is free but man hours labor cost perhaps should include cost of collecting garbage should be in the configuration.

[ghosthunter]

Does not necessarily have to be manure. Any organic material can be used.

Friend's family has been using a small bio-digester for more than 40 years a the produces one hour of cooking gas for a two burner gas stove with only a kilo of organic materials: leaves, offal, a little chicken and hog manure, leftovers etc.

Friend informed that high fat content of organic material produces more gas.

By product of liquid compost they fertilize some fruit trees and a small rice plot in their 700 sqm. lot behind the Nuclear Research Center near UP, Diliman.

Makati as info read somewhere utilizes a dump-site to extract methane. Cost of land use think is free but man hours labor cost perhaps should include cost of collecting garbage should be in the configuration.

Although it is true that you can use any organic matter to produce bio-gas, certain types of organic matter will produce more bio-gas than others. Also animal manure (in liquid form) is easier to handle (in large volumes) than plant matter.

In the case the ejeepney project, it has to be enough to recharge the entire fleet of 17 or so ejeepneys that the City of Makati have. That is a lot of bio-gas required to fuel an electric generator for eight hours or longer.

[ehnriko]

If manure is not enough... there's a huge supply of trapos... throw them all in - we will have energy supply that will outlast the oil deposits in the gulf.

[ghosthunter]

Install windmills inside the halls of congress and senate. God knows there is so much hot air blowing around there. Might as well make good use of it.

[ehnriko]

Kidding aside...

I personally do not agree with an energy generation that needs to compromise a particular lot to become a **** dump - all in the name of power.

There can always be a better way to generate power without the compromise on the environment...

OTEC for instance is a fine example... it utilizes ocean thermal difference as the source of heat and cooling for an ammonia based steam turbine loop system.

I'm sure there are more cleaner ways to do it than using biological waste, these waste are better off as compost / fertilizers.

Another clean method is by installing Vertical Wind rotors on Makati skyscrapers... Do we have a program here where Meralco or Napocor will pay or rebate us for energy that can be supplied back to the grid when we do have these installs on our buildings?... unless there's any Government initiative - I doubt it. Kaso, no room for corruption or kickback with these types of projects...

The Bio digester concept will benefit the cohorts / cronies when it comes to the support services like collection and delivery of septic wastes products on a continuing basis... good for them.

I wonder how green a methane based energy generator will be. I am just thinking of the chances that these gases will be able to escape and not be utilized or burned efficiently in favor of mechanical to electrical energy conversions.

Methane is a much worse Greenhouse gas than CO2...

[ghosthunter]

Kidding aside...

I personally do not agree with an energy generation that needs to compromise a particular lot to become a **** dump - all in the name of power.

There can always be a better way to generate power without the compromise on the environment...

OTEC for instance is a fine example... it utilizes ocean thermal difference as the source of heat and cooling for an ammonia based steam turbine loop system.

I'm sure there are more cleaner ways to do it than using biological waste, these waste are better off as compost / fertilizers.

Given that Makati City doesn't have an ocean conveniently located within it's jurisdiction, I think that idea will have to be postponed until an ocean can be found inside Makati City.

Another clean method is by installing Vertical Wind rotors on Makati skyscrapers... Do we have a program here where Meralco or Napocor will pay or rebate us for energy that can be supplied back to the grid when we do have these installs on our buildings?... unless there's any Government initiative - I doubt it. Kaso, no room for corruption or kickback with these types of projects...

Vertical (or even horizontal) wind rotors would be better utilized to offset the electricity used by the buildings themselves rather than used to generate power to recharge a couple of dozen electric golf carts.

Given that if I was the building owner, I would rather do it that way, unless the Meralco/Napocor would finance the rotors' construction and LEASE the space on the building for the location.

The Bio digester concept will benefit the cohorts / cronies when it comes to the support services like collection and delivery of septic wastes products on a continuing basis... good for them.

And this is the "preferred" option as mentioned in previous publications about the ejeepney.

I wonder how green a methane based energy generator will be. I am just thinking of the chances that these gases will be able to escape and not be utilized or burned efficiently in favor of mechanical to electrical energy conversions.

Methane is a much worse Greenhouse gas than CO2...

Although methane is a greenhouse gas, using it as fuel rather than letting it escape uncontrolled into the environment is a better solution.

The concept is to use existing organic waste, that would otherwise have been thrown into the open landfill, into a bio-digester. In this way, the methane produced can be collected and used as renewable fuel for an electric generator.

You have to remember, an open landfill already releases methane. By reducing the amount of organic waste going to the landfill, you can reduce the amount of methane gas that is released into the environment.

The main problem is to operate the methane gas electric generator setup in an economic and environmentally sound manner. This point has never been addressed.

[niky]

Methane is not needed in the fertilizer. After you have extracted methane from your manure and compost, you can still use the slurry as fertilizer.

I'm actually thinking of experimenting with this... and buying an ex-taxi propane kit to run a farm engine on it.

Vertical (or even horizontal) wind rotors would be better utilized to offset the electricity used by the buildings themselves rather than used to generate power to recharge a couple of dozen electric golf carts.

Indeed... even the most efficient and most powerful wind generators on buildings today work to only offset power use... the best I've heard is 20-25% total of a building's consumption... and that's with a building designed specifically to increase wind speed through the generator: twin towers are shaped in a way to accelerate the wind between them and push air past a giant wind generator installed between them.

[kitsons]

If manure is not enough... there's a huge supply of trapos... throw them all in - we will have energy supply that will outlast the oil deposits in the gulf.

Perhaps, you can invent devise to trap 'hot air" from both houses and perhaps this would be enough to produce energy requirement to have e-jeepneys ply QC routes... hihihihi o di kaya yong pork barrel maging tunay na pork kasama noong mg bilbil ng mga trapos... ok.

Tnx for the break ehnriko.