Scooter sa slex? pwede b dumaan?

[badsekktor]

medyo OT lang guys.. tanong ko lang kung ang pilipinas ba ang may pinaka-worst in ratings pagdating sa road courtesy? alam ko we belong sa top 10 na worst pero that was way long ago. Im not sure about now... any body can answer the question??? much better if we could enumerate the top 10 worst roads and drivers all over the world

[Tag]

since you opened the topic about rights of motorcyclists and the only means of transport that they can afford, then we really shouldn't stop there ...

if the govt. lifts the ban on motorcyles bec. of it's discriminatory nature, then the govt. should also allow entry to tricycles, bicycles, trikes or even carabaos with sleds for that matter. for example, farmers must also have the right to transport their harvest from one exit to the next by using their only affordable means of transport.

in that way, no party is left marginalized. and equal treatment for all.

This argument is very wrong. There is such a thing as a minimum speed in the expressway (and it usually set high to live up to its name: express way.) Those vehicles you've mentioned, tricycles, bicycles and carabaos can't even reach the minimum speed limit, much less the maximum limit. It isn't discrimination to disqualify a certain sector because it is lacking a requirement. For example, it's not discriminatory to ban the blind to have a driver's license. Simply because they have no sight which is a requirement in driving. In the same manner, it isn't discriminatory to ban a carabao to enter the expressway simply because it cannot possibly cope with the speed of an EXPRESS way which is a requirement for an entry. Let's give sensible arguments only please.

[oldblue]

This argument is very wrong. There is such a thing as a minimum speed in the expressway (and it usually set high to live up to its name: express way.) Those vehicles you've mentioned, tricycles, bicycles and carabaos can't even reach the minimum speed limit, much less the maximum limit. It isn't discrimination to disqualify a certain sector because it is lacking a requirement. For example, it's not discriminatory to ban the blind to have a driver's license. Simply because they have no sight which is a requirement in driving. In the same manner, it isn't discriminatory to ban a carabao to enter the expressway simply because it cannot possibly cope with the speed of an EXPRESS way which is a requirement for an entry. Let's give sensible arguments only please.

I answered the argument based on the claim that riders' rights are being trampled as well as the govt being indifferent on the riders' financial position: that they can only afford motorcycles as means of transportation. check the post I replied to bro.

if that is the main battlecry of motorcyclists to gain entry to the expressways, or to say it bluntly, the battlecry: "the paawa, mahirap at inaapi kami effect", then why not allow all na lang? para walang problema or future problem. coz this sort of thing is a very sensitive issue. it's not exclusive to the motorcyclists alone.


you said above that (quote) "It isn't discrimination to disqualify a certain sector because it is lacking a requirement". then I would like to ask what's your stand on the SAFETY requirement of the expressway? if, for example, motorcycles dont pass the safety requirements of the expressway, would you then accept that you are not being discriminated upon based on what you said above.

[wren]

I answered the argument based on the claim that riders' rights are being trampled as well as the govt being indifferent on the riders' financial position: that they can only afford motorcycles as means of transportation. check the post I replied to bro.

if that is the main battlecry of motorcyclists to gain entry to the expressways, or to say it bluntly, the battlecry: "the paawa, mahirap at inaapi kami effect", then why not allow all na lang? para walang problema or future problem. coz this sort of thing is a very sensitive issue. it's not exclusive to the motorcyclists alone.


you said above that (quote) "It isn't discrimination to disqualify a certain sector because it is lacking a requirement". then I would like to ask what's your stand on the SAFETY requirement of the expressway? if, for example, motorcycles dont pass the safety requirements of the expressway, would you then accept that you are not being discriminated upon based on what you said above.

pero ang issue po dito is worthiness ng mga sub-400cc sa expressway. maraming sub-400cc motorcycles that meet the safety and speed requirements to be in the expressways, but are not allowed because of a ban that has no merit. and for a lot of these motorcycle owners, yun lang ang mode of transport nila, that's why i brought up the affordability issue. if their bikes are well maintained and meet the speed and safety requirements, why are they relegated to take the back streets when they can save time and money by using the expressways, then we complain about their overwhelming presence on our streets? if they can't pass the speed and safety requirements to be expressway worthy, then by all means, ban them from the expressways, along with the carabaos, tricycles and bicycles, and truth be told, some cars.

[Chip]

at last some sensible arguments.

nakakarindi basahin yung "porket may kotse kayo blah blah".

[oldblue]

pero ang issue po dito is worthiness ng mga sub-400cc sa expressway. maraming sub-400cc motorcycles that meet the safety and speed requirements to be in the expressways, but are not allowed because of a ban that has no merit. and for a lot of these motorcycle owners, yun lang ang mode of transport nila, that's why i brought up the affordability issue. if their bikes are well maintained and meet the speed and safety requirements, why are they relegated to take the back streets when they can save time and money by using the expressways, then we complain about their overwhelming presence on our streets? if they can't pass the speed and safety requirements to be expressway worthy, then by all means, ban them from the expressways, along with the carabaos, tricycles and bicycles, and truth be told, some cars.

into writing lang naman ata yan sub-400cc, 500cc limitation na yan. But in general, if the PNCC had their way, banned lahat ng 2-wheel motorcycles sa expressways, which is I think is what they're doing.

plain and simple lang naman siguro why. from the riders' term itself: tawag nila sa mga naka-cars or any more than three-wheel car is cager . pardon my ignorance, noong una kala ko basketball player yun eh hehehe.
so yun na yun siguro cars/trucks/buses/suvs are allowed bec. they are enclosed in a "cage" while entering the expressway. so the more chances of surviving in a speeding or bumping accident inside the expressway. kumbaga the expressway is like a battlefield, protect yourselves before entering coz you'll never know what will really happen inside. mabuti na yun nag-iingat. accidents dont choose kahit na sabihin na may good apples or bad apples sa car/truck/bus/motorcycle drivers.

I'm quite surprised why some motorcyclists or yun article dito from a motorcycle club are avoiding this particular safety issue.

and in the argument, na bakit sa ibang bansa puwede bakit sa autobahn or whichever, cars and motorcycles can co-exist blah blah ... then siguro dagdagan na lang natin ang comparison, bakit sa ibang bansa hindi sub-standard ang roads, bakit sa ibang bansa may naka-position na hagad/police car on every exit or point. bakit sa ibang bansa may regularly maintained firetruck/ambulance/rescue team naka-dedicate solely for a particular expressway/highway. and last but not the least, bakit sa ibang bansa matitino at edukado ang mga drivers.

it all adds up di'ba. given all of those, confident ang govts. nila to allow motorcycles/cars/trucks/bus to ride together in speedways. lesser ang chances ng accidents, better ang responsiveness nila kung may mangyari man coz whether we like or not, even the safest speedways, nagkakaron pa din ng accidents.

[CtrlAltDel]

... and in the argument, na bakit sa ibang bansa puwede bakit sa autobahn or whichever, cars and motorcycles can co-exist blah blah ... then siguro dagdagan na lang natin ang comparison, bakit sa ibang bansa hindi sub-standard ang roads, bakit sa ibang bansa may naka-position na hagad/police car on every exit or point. bakit sa ibang bansa may regularly maintained firetruck/ambulance/rescue team naka-dedicate solely for a particular expressway/highway. and last but not the least, bakit sa ibang bansa matitino at edukado ang mga drivers.

it all adds up di'ba. given all of those, confident ang govts. nila to allow motorcycles/cars/trucks/bus to ride together in speedways. lesser ang chances ng accidents, better ang responsiveness nila kung may mangyari man coz whether we like or not, even the safest speedways, nagkakaron pa din ng accidents.

You have a point, oldblue. (Heck, even two high-ranking officers of Honda motorcycle manufacturing Philippines said on TV that their underbones are not suited for the expressways! You could imagine how that vexed Honda riders, hehehe.) Unfortunately, when pressed for supporting data, these officers were dumbstruck.)

But I would bet that the condition of the non-autobahn roads in developed contries are the same as that in their autobahns. And whatever safety responsiveness are there in the autobahn are also present in the non-autobahn roads. Which means riders are just as safe using autobahns and non-autobahns in these countries. Just guessing.

Here in our country, there is no need to guess. It's a fact that there is a world of difference in the condition of the carriageways between MacArthur Highway and the current NLEX. Dun ba sa MacArthur Highway, where motorcycles are relegated, are they better off? (For whom, exactly?) Does MacArthur Highway have ready ambulances, firetrucks, rescue teams and speedy responsiveness during accidents?

Is our government confident, given that it cannot do its job properly to enforse traffic laws, that riders are safer at MacArthur Highway than at the expressways?

If yes, then I'd like to know, at least, that someone has conducted a study on it and presented the result to authorities.

Although I am not privy to it, I know that the motorcycle advocates of the Philippines had met at Malacanang with the president, LTO/DOTC/PNCC, and motorcycle manufacturers where they (the motorcycle advocates) presented the result of their study supporting the lifting of ban on motorcycles at the expressways- subject of course to all applicable safety rules and regulations (In their proposal, not just any old motorcycle can use the expressways. There would be guidelines which should be strictly enforced.)

In response, the president ordered the LTO and concerned agencies to make the rights of Philippine motorcyclists at par with international standards. Or something to that effect.

If their were oppositors to this proposal, then the proper venue would be the same as that taken by the motorcycle advocates. That's the way to do it. There are oppositors but they have no factual data nor do they seek proper venue to support their arguments. I would like to know what they have to say as well.

[Tag]

Again, I'd like to clear things, I'm not saying that all motor riders are pretentious and irresponsible, but there's really a strong number of irresponsible riders, just as there's probably only a minority of responsible cage drivers

That's quite a bias. There's really a STRONG number of irresponsible riders? And there's only a minority of irresponsible drivers? And only probably? not even sure that there are? Come on. You've got to be kidding. I've been driving more than I've been riding. And from what I can observe, there are as many irresponsible drivers as there are irresponsible riders, if not more. The riders just always get the smaller end of the stick because of their vehicle's size. But make no mistake about it, bad apples are present in both, probably in the same percentage. Both are filipinos (same population) anyway.

[dragon21]

That's quite a bias. There's really a STRONG number of irresponsible riders? And there's only a minority of irresponsible drivers? And only probably? not even sure that there are? Come on. You've got to be kidding. I've been driving more than I've been riding. And from what I can observe, there are as many irresponsible drivers as there are irresponsible riders, if not more. The riders just always get the smaller end of the stick because of their vehicle's size. But make no mistake about it, bad apples are present in both, probably in the same percentage. Both are filipinos (same population) anyway.

Sir, if i may point out you may have read my statement wrong. I said "Minority of RESPONSIBLE drivers". ;)

[dragon21]

...

[Tag]

sir, please read my statement again, i said : a "minority" of RESPONSIBLE drivers

Sorry, my bad. I need glasses, hehe. In that case, I very much agree with you sir.

[dragon21]

Sorry, my bad. I need glasses, hehe. In that case, I very much agree with you sir.

no problem ;)

[CLAVEL3699]

hayyyyyyy..... buhay

patay na, nabuhay paaaaaa....

[KCboy]

in canada, the minimum displacement for hi ways is 250cc, kaya tataka me why dito sa pinas, 400cc ang kailangan, but honestly i don't approve of scooters in sssssssslex not unless 250cc yung scooters. just my opinion.

[boybi]

so hindi lang pala dito sa pinas meron selective banning ng motorcycles sa expressways/highways.

[flakez]

the ban should be atleast 150cc, pag scooters na 50cc kaya nga niya umabot ng minimum speed pero kadalasan sagad niya na un. o kaya naman souped-up na ung scoot na mahirap na i-byahe. nandyan ung masasabugan ka ng makina kapag nababad masyado.

[BeetOls]

well said oldblue...We're just not ready for that yet. There are still many things that should be considered, changed, and improved.

[boybi]

gusto ko rin itanong sa mga riders kung kaya ba ng mga sub 400cc bikes na i-traverse ang NLEX ng hindi naooverheat ang engine. meron kasi akong isang kakilala, 150cc yung bike nya pero big body sya na parang 400cc ang itsura, yung mga made in china. nagooverheat daw kung matagalan na high speed ang takbo nya dahil air cooled lang daw kasi yung engine nya, unlike mga 400cc na water cooled daw. paki confirm nalang. if this is true, talagang mahihirapan mga sub-400cc na takbuhin ang NLEX.

[FPJ]

gusto ko rin itanong sa mga riders kung kaya ba ng mga sub 400cc bikes na i-traverse ang NLEX ng hindi naooverheat ang engine. meron kasi akong isang kakilala, 150cc yung bike nya pero big body sya na parang 400cc ang itsura, yung mga made in china. nagooverheat daw kung matagalan na high speed ang takbo nya dahil air cooled lang daw kasi yung engine nya, unlike mga 400cc na water cooled daw. paki confirm nalang. if this is true, talagang mahihirapan mga sub-400cc na takbuhin ang NLEX.

Sub standard ang China made bikes kaya unreliable....Hindi lahat ng air-cooled engine ay nangyayari yan....para ding kotse yan, kapag may problema ang radiator may possibility na mag-overheat....Some engines are designed/fitted w/ air fan for cooling like SYM and Kymco bikes(Taiwan made) which are very reliable. SYM Joyride 200 and Kymco Dink150 /Grand Dink 250s' are all sub-400 but fitted w/ radiator(water-cooled). Grand Dink 250 has a peak speed of 140KpH.

[Mossimo_63_777]

Sub standard ang China made bikes kaya unreliable....Hindi lahat ng air-cooled engine ay nangyayari yan....para ding kotse yan, kapag may problema ang radiator may possibility na mag-overheat....Some engines are designed/fitted w/ air fan for cooling like SYM and Kymco bikes(Taiwan made) which are very reliable. SYM Joyride 200 and Kymco Dink150 /Grand Dink 250s' are all sub-400 but fitted w/ radiator(water-cooled). Grand Dink 250 has a peak speed of 140KpH.

hmm..ngayon ko lang nalaman na sub standard pala ang mga china bikes.