Toyota Fortuner new turbo vs. Montero V-GT

[Ry_Tower]

imho kahit 160 ka sa rekta pero pagdating sa kurbada eh baba ka ng 60 e cguradong mahahabulan ka ng syento bente lang ang takbo sa rekta pero pag kurbada e nde bumababa ng 80 or depende sa twist lalo na sa south, kung manual vs auto cgurado matatalo manual, UNLESS marunong ka heel-toe-downshifting, regular ako byahe manila bicol samar, innova vvti auto gamit ko, iniiwanan ako ng prado,forester, kahit BUS especially ang mga ULTRABUS sa straight, pero pag twist na nakakahabol ako dahil sa downshifting + engine break = balance out-in-out enter/exit sa curve tas OVERTAKE pag clear, MASARAP paglaruan ang shifter ng toyota, after 6 yrs na ganito style drive isang beses lang ako nag pa ayos ng cylinder gasket..... dahil palaging high rpm may oil na lumalabas, benta ko na innova pang down montero, break in to sorsogon this week! AND na try konarin fortuner vvti manila/bicol ramdam ang body roll unlike innova, malamang pati montero, taas e, in short nasa driver yan, peace!

Lamang ang manual sa mga twist, turns and uphill climbs based on my experience.

[tsupermario]

Lamang ang manual sa mga twist, turns and uphill climbs based on my experience.

sa hi-speed turns, may factor kaya ang failed moose test ng hilux sa fortuner? iirc pasado ang strada sa test

[amuro]

sa hi-speed turns, may factor kaya ang failed moose test ng hilux sa fortuner? iirc pasado ang strada sa test

eto po ba yun

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZF8N9NItHI]Toyota Hilux fails the Moose test - YouTube[/ame]

[▅▆█ JASPER █▆▅]

*zix888 true pero in contrast fort gives more low end torque

[arsen]

Lets compare their valve timing:
4D56 DI-D
Intake Opens * 20deg BTDC (Before Top Dead Center)
Intake Closes * 40deg ABDC (After Bottom Dead Center)
Exhaust Opens * 38deg BBDC (Before Bottom Dead Center)
Exhaust Closes * 22deg ABDC sorry this is ATDC (After Top Dead Center)

1KD-FTV (paki-correct na lang po at sabi-sabi lang to never seen the pdf technical info)
Intake Opens * 2deg BTDC
Intake Closes * 37deg ABDC
Exhaust Opens * 45deg BBDC
Exhaust Closes * 0deg ABDC sorry this is ATDC

As an MD, i can interpret EKG, various chemical profiles of the different organs. As a stock trader, i can interpret finacial statements and brokerage reports.
BUT, reading the above data which involves degrees and speed/load performances, Pucha, di ko maintindihan even after reading it 4x.
Langya, I could never be an engineer.

Sorry Doc kung masyadong technical. The values shows that 4D56 DI-D valve timing is leading compared to the valve timing of 1KD-FTV (which is lagging). Ayan technical pa rin.

Since MD pala kayo I hope you can relate with these:

Imagine that the piston and cylinder is a syringe. (biggest size is 100ml graduation?)
Imagine that the engine valve is the needle of your syringe (biggest diameter needle is 5G? 10G?).

Let me correspond a bigger diameter needle to a leading valve timing while smaller diameter needle is for a lagging timing.

Lets me exaggerate further Doc. Let say giant syringe na kasya ang 620ml na fluid then kabitan natin ng malaking needle, thin-walled kung meron, pero up to the size lang na once pointing downward ang needle eh kusang tutulo na ang fluid na laman ng syringe pero not immediately drain out ang fluid me mga tira pa kunyari na lagpas kalahati after crossing a regular size operating room. Let say ang syringe sample na ito is referring to the 4D56 DI-D.

Then another giant syringe na kasya ang 750ml na fluid then kabitan ng katamtamang laki ng needle para walang significant leak or dripping when pointing downward ang syringe. Let say ang sample na ito is referring to the 1KD-FTV.

Now na may two sets of syringes na. Kelangan ng dalawang pair ng malaking timba. Isa sa pair ay puno ng tubig at isa eh walang laman.

Let me represent engine torque sa volume ng tubig na kayang eh transfer ng syringe (from 1 timba to another) sa isang cycle o balikan.

Let me represent NET engine power sa kung gaano kabilis matransfer (volume/time) ang tubig sa timba (net kasi considered ang loses like drippings and effort ng magtatransfer)

Para sa low RPM which means low cycle, kailangan sympre paglayuin ang dalawang timba sa magkabilang dulo ng operating room.
During low cycle transferring: Ang syringe representing 4D56, dahil oversize ang kanyang needle (valve) has a natural tendency to drip (leak) at low cycle.
While the syringe representing 1KD-FTV since smaller ang size ng needle, mas complete ang volume ng fluid, no significant dripping (leakage) sa low cycle. At since di naman nagmamadali swabe lang ang pagtulak sa plunger ng syringe to spill-out the fluid.

Para sa high RPM which means faster cycle, pagtabihin ang dalawang timba. Then start transferring as fast as possible. Dyan na ngayon babawi ang syringe na malaki ang needle. Mas madali nya eh suck-in then spill-out ang laman nya na fluid kaya mas malaki volume na matataransfer plus lesser time and lesser effort compared to the one with smaller needle.

In this example, Power is represented in terms of volume/time… lesser time equals more power.

[jon777]

^^
Arsen, thanks for simplifying it

[butchyboy]

Sorry Doc kung masyadong technical. The values shows that 4D56 DI-D valve timing is leading compared to the valve timing of 1KD-FTV (which is lagging). Ayan technical pa rin.

Since MD pala kayo I hope you can relate with these:

Imagine that the piston and cylinder is a syringe. (biggest size is 100ml graduation?)
Imagine that the engine valve is the needle of your syringe (biggest diameter needle is 5G? 10G?).

Let me correspond a bigger diameter needle to a leading valve timing while smaller diameter needle is for a lagging timing.

Lets me exaggerate further Doc. Let say giant syringe na kasya ang 620ml na fluid then kabitan natin ng malaking needle, thin-walled kung meron, pero up to the size lang na once pointing downward ang needle eh kusang tutulo na ang fluid na laman ng syringe pero not immediately drain out ang fluid me mga tira pa kunyari na lagpas kalahati after crossing a regular size operating room. Let say ang syringe sample na ito is referring to the 4D56 DI-D.

Then another giant syringe na kasya ang 750ml na fluid then kabitan ng katamtamang laki ng needle para walang significant leak or dripping when pointing downward ang syringe. Let say ang sample na ito is referring to the 1KD-FTV.

Now na may two sets of syringes na. Kelangan ng dalawang pair ng malaking timba. Isa sa pair ay puno ng tubig at isa eh walang laman.

Let me represent engine torque sa volume ng tubig na kayang eh transfer ng syringe (from 1 timba to another) sa isang cycle o balikan.

Let me represent NET engine power sa kung gaano kabilis matransfer (volume/time) ang tubig sa timba (net kasi considered ang loses like drippings and effort ng magtatransfer)

Para sa low RPM which means low cycle, kailangan sympre paglayuin ang dalawang timba sa magkabilang dulo ng operating room.
During low cycle transferring: Ang syringe representing 4D56, dahil oversize ang kanyang needle (valve) has a natural tendency to drip (leak) at low cycle.
While the syringe representing 1KD-FTV since smaller ang size ng needle, mas complete ang volume ng fluid, no significant dripping (leakage) sa low cycle. At since di naman nagmamadali swabe lang ang pagtulak sa plunger ng syringe to spill-out the fluid.

Para sa high RPM which means faster cycle, pagtabihin ang dalawang timba. Then start transferring as fast as possible. Dyan na ngayon babawi ang syringe na malaki ang needle. Mas madali nya eh suck-in then spill-out ang laman nya na fluid kaya mas malaki volume na matataransfer plus lesser time and lesser effort compared to the one with smaller needle.

In this example, Power is represented in terms of volume/time… lesser time equals more power.

does this mean na kung FROM a low rpm/idle/stading still start maiiwan monty kay fort, pero pag nasa high RPM range si monty hahataw?

[▅▆█ JASPER █▆▅]

Is it just me but the fort handles better for me. Parang feeling ko mas truck ung dating ng monty handling

My views above are not intended to bash or to be biased.

[BRIAN]

we do have both cars

fortuner 3.0 4x4 2005 model
monterosport 2.5 4x2 non-vgt

i would say mas maganda handling and braking ng monterosport

pero sa toughness sa fortuner ako, and lakas ng torque ng fortuner.

both cars are good,meron sila mga advantage and disadvantage.

pero kung sa byahe mas gusto ko gamitin ang FORTUNER dahil sa 4x4 system niya incase might need it.

then yun monterosport city driving since 2.5liters mas tipid nga naman talaga.

IMO.

[alvinladen]

we do have both cars

fortuner 3.0 4x4 2005 model
monterosport 2.5 4x2 non-vgt

i would say mas maganda handling and braking ng monterosport

pero sa toughness sa fortuner ako, and lakas ng torque ng fortuner.

both cars are good,meron sila mga advantage and disadvantage.

pero kung sa byahe mas gusto ko gamitin ang FORTUNER dahil sa 4x4 system niya incase might need it.

then yun monterosport city driving since 2.5liters mas tipid nga naman talaga.

IMO.

sir, di ata fair comparison ito imo.

[BRIAN]

sir, di ata fair comparison ito imo.

sorry tao lang hindi ako expert. just stating my opinion.

kung sa tingin mo hindi fair. then give me an fair comparison.

[alvinladen]

Di din ako expert sir hehe nasabi ko lang kasi different specs sila.

[alvinladen]

Is it just me but the fort handles better for me. Parang feeling ko mas truck ung dating ng monty handling

mas matigas talaga steering ng Montero

[superblitz]

It should be both 4x4 comparison. Meron din bang select ang fortuner like sa gtv na pwedeng 2wd at 4wd?

[babynos01]

The fortuner also has the 4x4 lever.
Kaya naging hindi fair kasi VNT na yung 3.0 fort. 4x4 pa.
Yung GTV dapat point of comparison.

[BRIAN]

Ang dapat siguro na comparison is GLS SE yun 3.2 4x4

Even the gtv still a 2.5 eninge vgt with 4x4 lang.

[green eagle]

Ang dapat siguro na comparison is GLS SE yun 3.2 4x4

Even the gtv still a 2.5 eninge vgt with 4x4 lang.

This will also not equate to an equal comparison; the 3.0 Fortuner is equipped with the VNT (a technology similar to the VGT) while the GLS SE is not.
Anyway, after having read thru the thread, I guess its really to each his own. Both SUVs have their pros & cons & both are arguably at the top of their class (among the locally distributed suvs). Both employ the newest technology & both give its owners great delight in driving. Unfortunately, as proof of their value, they are also a carnapper's favorite.

[Starex_Gold]

Kung laban ng naka VGT, dapat yung Fortuner 2.5G VNT vs Montero GLS-V 4X2.

Pag laban ng 4X4, IMO dapat yung Montero 3.2 GLS SE at Fortuner 3.0V. Kahit naman naka-VNT na yung 3.0V, same output lang sila ng 4M41.

[glenn_duke]

4m41 engine ng GLS SE na naka intercooler ay nasa 163hp same sa 3.0V na naka VNT. Pero yung 4M41 na naka VGT, nasa 200hp na. Kaya kahit apple to apple ang gawing comparison base sa displacement at turbo, lamang parin ang MS sa Fort kahit saang variant ng CRDI engine. Although mas maganda yata ang FC ng Fort.

[green eagle]

Pero yung 4M41 na naka VGT, nasa 200hp na.

Is this engine locally available in any of the Monterosports already?
Isn't it the GLS SE 3.2L is no longer available locally & its place is the 2.5L GT-V?