sana hindi n lang tyo pinaglaban ng ating mga bayani!!

[Flagg]

The govt and A-B will always protect their interests. Corruption is allowed by the A-B so those in power are corrupted to a point where they wouldnt want to leave where they are. Tada! Resistance to change is solidified. Status quo preserved.

AFAIK, EDSA 1 (the only real revolution) started as AB. All the leftists, rent-a-crowds, CDEFG came mga 1-2 days later. Today, according to the CD people I've talked to, the only grudge they have against the AB is that the AB can still afford to ride out today's hardship. They however acknowledge that even the AB are having a hard time.

Is advocating hatred between classes an optimal course to take? Do you really believe it is fun to pay bribes when in fact you are already taxed considerably? How fun is it to be taxed for garbage collection and then pay the basurero P50/day to do his job?

Sir uls, in the search for a better system, some people actually have to work to keep this country going while under the present one. If we have to resort to following the way this system works, so be it. This does not mean that we want to keep it this way.

Btw, yeah my ride is pimped. I work 12-14 hrs a day, 6-7 days a week and saved for 6 yrs to do it (while still financing my mortgage and living expenses). In the same way, one of my men worked 10-12 hrs a day, 6 days a week and saved 3 yrs to buy his scooter. That sir uls, is how you improve. You don't get that chance in hatred and war, now do you?

[niky]

And by the way... if peace only benefits those who have "interests" to protect... who benefits from war? The people caught in the crossfire? The poor? Those destitute and hopeless who stand helplessly by as one warlord after another takes power?

What about a people's revolution? That "revolution" in the cases of Russia and China were shams... shams that sent millions to their death in the name of "social progress". And again, all it achieved was empowerment for the "party" and the oppression of everyone else. Thus, the poor stayed poor, and the middle class joined them.

The status quo sucks, but, like I said in my previous post, upsetting the status quo doesn't help anyone if there's no qualitative change inthe leaders... you can see this in dozens of third world countries.

And any leader aching to achieve change through violence doesn't really have fiscal and economic reforms in mind... only personal aggrandizement and power. A successful regime change nowadays requires military might... such as only the corrupt and lawless may possess. Show me anyone with the power and motivation to overthrow the government who really has the people at heart... who isn't engaged in kidnapping, extortion or blackmail.

Any revolt by the C-D groups usually comes from the dispossesed young males, aggressive, unemployed and usually aching for a fight. We've seen this in the LA riots and in Paris. We saw this last month across the Middle East and Asia with the "Cartoon Riots". This kind of revolt achieves nothing but a lowering of the rights of the underpriveleged, through curfews, arrests and stricter police control.

The poor can do nothing to change a government... except educate themselves. Learn the ways of government, and learn how to vote right.

[oldblue]

Originally Posted by uls
The govt and A-B will always protect their interests. Corruption is allowed by the A-B so those in power are corrupted to a point where they wouldnt want to leave where they are. Tada! Resistance to change is solidified. Status quo preserved.

this is actually a very accurate insight. A-B have perfected the art of monopoly. I very much agree with this.


but with this as a given, what will be our next step as members of the middle and lower class? whining won't do, and being used by a cause with a hidden agenda (like people power/rallies) won't do either.

"it's easier to change oneself, than it is to change another person" - nakalimutan ko nagsabi hehehe

to change oneself - become like them\imitate them then beat them at their own game. yun lang ang solusyon talaga and one must be willing to undergo what they had undergone to reach such a status.

that's the way of the capitalistic world eh ... beat 'em or join 'em.

[uls]

How the A-B allows corruption in govt:

Businessmen avoid paying huge taxes by bribing BIR people.

Contractors wins govt contracts by giving kickbacks to certain govt people.

the bigger the money involved, the higher the level of govt is involved.

to them, its win-win. i scratch ur back, u scratch mine.

Its lucrative for the govt people involved. So lucrative that they can afford lifestyles similar to those who bribe them.

The A-B created this breed of people to protect their own interests.

thats how the system works. its wrong, but its there, firmly rooted, resisitant to change.

[BlueBimmer]

so in short the A-B class are just a bunch of corrupt capitalistic pigs?

[oldblue]

so in short the A-B class are just a bunch of corrupt capitalistic pigs?

capitalistic yes, pigs hindi naman. corrupt in the middle.

it's basic human nature to protect our own interests. just like us middle class protecting our cars, our family, our jobs, our future.

it's only that the A-B crowd acquired so much in this world that their greatest fear is losing all of it. and so they protect it by any means necessary. I can relate to that.

in fact in doing so, they become enlightened. why bec. they do it so peacefully that the lower/middle class wonder how'd they do that (except for criminals A-B, that's an exception). education can be a key, but it's not enough siguro. sacrifice & patience maybe, but that is also true to the middle class.

If there's one thing we should learn about them is that they really fear losing it all ( "it all" meaning not only money & material belongings), but they are prepared to lose some. confused? hehehe ako man eh. right now, my heart isnt ready for that complicated lifestyle.

[uls]

yes. capitalism rules.

[uls]

eto mejo OT. pero this is how the world works:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11167185/site/newsweek/

[Chip]

Yes and no.

Capitalism, while indeed responsible for the current class structure, is not entirely to blame. They say that power corrupts and that absolute power corrupts absolutely, I, however, beleive that power attracts the corruptible. Who, short of a true patriot(very few of these left) or mother Theresa, would spend billions in order to land a job that pays what, 50K/month for six years? It doesnt make financial sense. Not unless you are : 1. Deranged. 2. A bored billionaire. 3. A truly selfless well-intentioned person 4. expecting a return on your investment. Now given these, do you honestly think that persons 1-3 will run? Not very likely. Although there are some people who do produce results (Fernando) but there are those in power do everything they can to disrupt progress, doing this under the banner of being pro-poor.

Can we blame the A-B for bribing? Again yes and no. Yes, because they do bribe and tempt people who are earning peanuts with double or more what they are earning just to look the other way. No, because a truly honest person in a position of power will never be swayed(short of a threat on his life), no matter the amount.

So do you propose a truly pro-poor government? That sounds suspiciously like communism, where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of an individual. While this may sound like the ideal government, communism does not reward initiative and hard work. I cannot envision living in a society where the fruits of my labor go to the collective. I cannot imagine working harder than anyone else yet still receive the same as someone who is lazy and does the minimum amount of work. Why do you think a lot of communist scientisits defected to the US? Because their brilliance and contributions, while recognized, was not rewarded.
While "for the greater good" may sound ideal, it is, in truth, a hindrance to growth. It punishes initiative. It does not reward hard work. It promotes laziness. It kills freedom.


Like it has been said above, change must come from within.

[BlueBimmer]

i guess when we say A class, people like Lucio Tan, Henry Sy, Gokongweis, Lopez, Ayala etc right?

how about B?

[Luap]

i guess when we say A class, people like Lucio Tan, Henry Sy, Gokongweis, Lopez, Ayala etc right?

how about B?

Like Rustom Padilla (B-ading?)

[uls]

u got it sir old blue.

[uls]

Yes, the A class... the super rich. Very few at that level. billionaires' club yan

Upper B class are multi millionaires (assets in the hundreds of millions), lower B just garden variety millionaires (assets in the tens of millions)

[niky]

Talaga? I always thought I was B... :lol:

Di C nalang ako? Or lower lower B? Di lang B talaga dahil an daming apo ng Lolo ko.

And I disagree that all A-B class are corrupt capitalist pigs. My Lolo was a millionaire and a Marcos loyalist, but he provided employment for a lot of poor people in the family corporation, as well as giving out lots of scholarships and medical benefits. He advocated health reforms and MediCare for the poor in his term as PMA president. My Aunt nearly went bust running a chapel and a clinic out in the wilderness in Cavite.

It's not always fair to generalize classes, mind you... not even the rich are completely heartless.

They work to uplift the status of the people in any way they can. I'm not saying this is the norm, as there are many who couldn't care less, but there are those who are trying to help.

And it is through these slow changes, the improvement of our educational system, the providing of jobs for our people by local businesses, industries and agrarian development (though the last seems a doomed effort) that we can bring about a change for the better.

There are people who don't like change because nobody benefits from upheaval... not in the beginning. Those who can rise above and profit from it are the ruthless, the aggressive, those who are willing to take advantage of the situation and others.

Revolution and destruction only evens things out by reducing everyone to the same state... but it is the same hard-workers who have to rebuild things, not the revolutionaries, and it is the same opportunists who eventually rise to the top and acquire all the wealth.

It doesn't matter whether the system is capitalist, communist or socialist, there's still greed and corruption in the world. It is only when you uplift the state of the common man that a qualitative change can take place in society, and not before.

[BlueBimmer]

basta no to war! hehe

[miLes]

basta no to war! hehe

dito lang aku makakarelate, make love not war wag lang ala brokeback

kidding aside, i dont believe that the CD classes are stuck, they're just not moving. both my grandparents came from C or D class families and it has taken our family 30 years to get to B class, i do admit that i was born on a silver plate but i know what and where my parents and grandparents came from and what they endured before. we won no lottery nor did anything illegal it was pure patience and hardwork, so if you're telling me that the CD classes have no hope then thats BS (excuse my french) they're there because they want to be there, what they want is to wake up a million peso richer the next morning without breaking a sweat, what's worse is that they are relying on the government to make this happen...

malayo na ba aku sa topic hehe...
anyway pm me if you want happy pills or "vitamins"


guys joke lang yung last line ku ah baka nga i pm niyo aku hehe peace

[oldblue]

kidding aside, i dont believe that the CD classes are stuck, they're just not moving. both my grandparents came from C or D class families and it has taken our family 30 years to get to B class,

"the middle class is stuck bec. they buy assets that they think are assets, but are in fact liabilities" - Robert Kiyosaki's rich dad.

one example: cars.

[spearhead_970]

ano ba talaga ang maganda??

[BlueBimmer]

dont buy cars? :D

[Jun aka Pekto]

dont buy cars? :D

Hmmm. Why not? While studying there, I commuted to school and college everyday when we more than had the means to drive ourselves. Of course, I liked mingling with the regular folks. The only time I drove there was whenever my sister came home from UP Diliman every Friday night and every Sunday afternoon when we drove her back to her dorm in the campus.