Hacienda Luisita - what's your take on this

[boybi]

yung strike ng Philippine Rabbit Bus Lines dito, lasted more than 6 months. everybody knows that PRBL is in the red for years, yet kung anu ano pa ang hinihingi ng labor union. syempre hindi kaya ibigay ng management, so nag strike sila. walang nagawa ang management kundi totally stop ang operations. after a few months, (though not sure ako dito), PRBL sold some of its terminals and buses to pay their loans and interests. (yung Bataan Transit was PRBL before). when the labor union sensed na wala ng patutunguhan ang strike nila, na maaaring ibenta ng PRBL mga assets nila one by one, they met with the management and asked to resume their operations and hindi na nila muna paguusapan yung mga hinihingi nilang additional wages or benefits. ang sagot ng management: wala na kaming pera to resume operations. yung mga buses ilan buwan ng hindi napaandar, malamang stucked up na mga makina, at wala na rin pambili ng fuel.

pero late last month, just before the all saints day, nag resume na operations ng PRBL. hindi ko na alam kung anong napagusapan nila.

[mazdamazda]

Originally posted by wowiesy
may cut ang labor union dyan.. 20% ata... tapos dun sa 200 daily wage increase.. may cut din ang labor union dyan... hindi buo yan mapupunta sa employees covered by the CBA...

putik... yan na nga ang sinasabi ko sa mga "labor union" na yan ang kung ano-ano pang mga labor groups.

imbes na magtrabaho sila nang maayos eh nansusulsol lang sila? saan na punta yung 20% para maghakot ng mga pupunta sa picket line?

==========

ang hirap kasi sa ibang "labor groups" puro dada lang, eh hindi naman alam kung paano gumagana ang business.

katulad sa company namin ngayon - alam naman naming hindi pa halos kumikita. yung mga ibang empleyado, nagtsatsaga pa rin, kahit wala pang P500 ang increase nila. alam kasi nila ang sitwasyon ng kumpanya.

pati ang mga may-ari ng mga kompanya ay kayang mabuhay kapag isinara nila yun. e kapag nawala ang hacienda luisita, saan sila ngayon magtratrabaho? naisip ba nila yun? naisip rin ba nila na ang mga ibang tao ay apektado ng ginawa nila? yung mga nasa plantation workers? yung mga driver ng delivery trucks? edi pati ang ibang tao apektado.

[vixen]

I feel sorry for those people who died..

ang tanong may sss, philhealth ba sila or anything na kelangan ng mga manggagawa.

hmm cge let say, 180 nga ang minimum wage nila, eh pano pa yung 5% na deduction para sa mga yun (sss, philhealth etc.). so i guess tama lang n Php 200.00 ang hingin nila. may mga family din sila na umaasa.

sa 30k,hmm conjuangcos are rich, they are everywhere, andami nilang business, kaya nila yun. kung hindi uubra, why dont they face the people and negotiate. empathize with the people who are also a big help to them.

...parang hindi ko ata naririnig or nababasa ang DOLE na nakikialam dyan... may comment na ba sila?

[mazdamazda]

vixen,

dineclare ng DOLE na illegal yung ginawa nilang strike and nag issue na ng return to work order.

kasi nag lay-off ang Hacienda Luisita ng ilang workers (may separation pay naman). yung ilan ayaw, kaya dun nag simula.

from a business POV, tingnan mo lang ang operation ng Hacienda Luisita, kahit mayaman si Cojuanco - galing yun sa ibang business nya - ba't niya i subsidize sa agricultural industry? alam mo naman hindi ganun ka lakas ang sugar industry and we are in some financial difficulty. halos lahat ng companies may belt-tightening.

[pissword]

ms. vixen pakitingnan po ang long term effect pag binigyan nila ng ganyang halaga ang mga tao...

and ms. vixen.. lets say 180 ang wage nila ngayon.. gusto nilang gawing 380 po.. kasi po +200 dba sobra naman ata??

and by the way, kung may ibang business man ang mga cojuangco, then dapat ba nilang icompensate ang losses ng hacienda luisita? eh kung nag bebleed lang din pala ng resources nila ito eh isara nalang..


in the first place, hacienda luisita has been losing money for ilang years na..kaya lang daw yan buhay up until now dahil part ng lupa eh binebenta ng mga cojuangcos para macompensate ang loss. malamang this loss is due to the smuggled sugar.

hayy hindi maganda ang maraming empleyado dito sa pinas hehe too powerful ang unions and employees... kaya napipilitan magcontractual ang mga companies. masmabuti nga for the company yun nga lang d ka nakakasiguro sa performance ng mga tao lagi

[wowiesy]

Originally posted by vixen
I feel sorry for those people who died..

ang tanong may sss, philhealth ba sila or anything na kelangan ng mga manggagawa.

hmm cge let say, 180 nga ang minimum wage nila, eh pano pa yung 5% na deduction para sa mga yun (sss, philhealth etc.). so i guess tama lang n Php 200.00 ang hingin nila. may mga family din sila na umaasa.

sa 30k,hmm conjuangcos are rich, they are everywhere, andami nilang business, kaya nila yun. kung hindi uubra, why dont they face the people and negotiate. empathize with the people who are also a big help to them.

...parang hindi ko ata naririnig or nababasa ang DOLE na nakikialam dyan... may comment na ba sila?

naki alam nga ang DOLE eh.. they issued the return to work order.. may procedure yan...

oo nga na ang right to strike ay guaranteed by the constitution (not sure) and by law (this one i'm sure)... but then may tamang proseso yan... so unang tanong.. sinunod ba ang proseso? there is such a thing a "Strike vote"... members of the union vote if they want a strike or not... hindi lang officers ah.. lahat ng members...

once they go on strike... may recourse pa ang management.. which yun nga ang ginawa nila... they sought an AJ (assumption of jurisdiction) by the DOLE... legal pa rin to... at sa pagsusuri ng DOLE... may basis for them to assume jurisdiction... pag nag AJ kasi ang DOLE. it means.. back to work, at yung negotiations (CBA man o anong reason ng conflict) gigitna na ang DOLE... sila na ang mag re referee... legal pa rin to.. and i think this is just morally sound... both parties are given their avenues to air their grievances...

ang problema ay kung ginagamit na ang emotions... mahirap na magkaintindihan... pina iinit ang damdamin ng mga tao... shempre using half truths and lies... dagdagan pa na hahakot ng tao pang harang ng gate para walang makapasok...

andun na tayo na laborers have the right to organize and the right to strike... protection nila ito para hindi mayurakan ang kanilang mga karapatan....

pero ang employers o management.. may karapatan din silang kumita... may karapatan silang kumita ng tama sa kanilang ipinuhunan... kapag both parties ay mahinahon na nag uusap.. with all transparency and sincerity... magkaka intindihan...

pero kung may 3rd party na hindi naman talaga kasama sa mga empleyadong nagtra trabaho sa kumpanya... "adviser" sya from the national union na wala namang kaalam alam sa araw araw na operation ng union ng company at ng negosyo.. ayan na.... sa kagustuhang magpasiklab ng "adviser"... magpapakitang gilas sa CBA.. napakataas ang hihingin... sagaran ang mga mass actions... to pressure the management to give in to the demands... pag nag give in ang management sa demands.. shempre natural lang na hihingi ang "adviser" ng konting "tulong" dahil pinag hirapan nya yung pag punta punta sa meeting... at since kung di dahil sa kanya ay malamang hindi magbibigay ang management ng dagdag... so maniniwala naman ang mga empleyado... bibigay naman sila...

ayun.. dito napupunta yung portion ng mga increases nila at signing bonuses... may union dues din yan tuwing sahod na automatic na kaltas... check around in the DOLE offices kung ilan lang na labor unions ang religious sa pag submit ng mga financial statements nila...

this is a whole industry... hanap buhay ito ng mga taong nasa "industriyang" ganito...

[boybi]

narinig ko sa radio kanina, the head of the labor unions said when the strike broke out, they were still actually negotiating with the management. hindi lang daw nakapaghintay yung ibang mga laborers, especially those retrenched, kaya nag strike na.

regarding the distribution of the hacienda lands for the agrarian reform, the laborers were actually made owners of the entire CAT estate, i think more than 30%, the rest are retained by the cojuangcos. kung outright binigay yung mga lands sa mga tao, baka ibenta lang nila yun.

[wowiesy]

Originally posted by mazdamazda
putik... yan na nga ang sinasabi ko sa mga "labor union" na yan ang kung ano-ano pang mga labor groups.

imbes na magtrabaho sila nang maayos eh nansusulsol lang sila? saan na punta yung 20% para maghakot ng mga pupunta sa picket line?

==========

tama to... yung mga koleksyon nila sa isang union.. ay ipinang popondo sa iba pang mass actions sa ibang union, or sa ibang issues... at least for the progressive unions ganito... gaya ng mga nasa umbrella group ng ilang party lists.. this way, they get to be "pogi" in public.. fighting for the cause of the common tao... not just for decent work with decent pay.. cost of electricity, cost of water, taxes, price increase of expressways, "nakatikim ka na ba ng kinse anyos?", diana zubiri fhm shoot along edsa flyover... lahat ng issue sasakyan.. para laging visible sa media... so that when election time comes around... mas malaki ang chance nila to be elected again as party list... pag dumami na ang seats nila sa congress... who knows.. there may be enough of them to sneak in a pet law somewhere...

pero yung ibang naka affiliate sa mga fly by night personalities... binubulsa lang talaga yung collections...

so sad but true... nagagamit ang mga manggagawa... and sa hirap ng buhay... with all the cancer of philippine society... it's a very sad and depressing thought na this will go on...

the system breeds itself...

[mazdamazda]

alam ko parang co-owner ang treatment sa kanila... teka hanapin ko lang...

eto nahanap ko...

HLI, a corporate farming firm established in the late 1980s under the stock scheme of the Comprehensive Agrarian Reform Program (CARP), has more than 5,000 farm workers who are regarded by the Cojuangcos as "co-owners."

another one:

FARMWORKERS at the Hacienda Luisita in Tarlac have had enough of the stock-distribution option they’ve been given since 1989. They are now demanding that the 6,453-hectare property be covered by the comprehensive agrarian reform program (CARP).

Carina Espino, secretary-general of the Alyansa ng Manggagawang Bukid sa Hacienda Luisita (Ambala), said the Cojuangcos, owners of the hacienda and one of the oldest and most powerful land-owning families in the country, only offered the stock-distribution option so that it would be exempted from the CARP.

“We were deceived when they [Cojuangcos] encouraged us not to get the lands because we didn’t have money [to till them]. They insisted on the [stock-distribution option], saying that our lives would be better because we would be part of the company,” Espino said. “They said we would earn big through shares of stocks. We now want to till the lands and own them through the CARP.”

Under the stock-distribution option, sugarcane farmers of the hacienda are listed as stockholders, while the Cojuangcos retained management of the hacienda.

“There’s profit sharing, but the money we get is too small because the management’s computation is based on the days we worked,” Espino explained. “Before, we work six to seven days a week; now, we can only work three to four days. Others even work once a week.”

Most of the farmworkers receive P200 a year from their stocks and production shares because of this scheme, Espino said.

The sugarcane plantation has 5,300 workers.

The farmers are also questioning the retrenchment of some 326 permanent employees in August. The retrenched employees are officers of the United Luisita Workers’ Union, an affiliate of Ambala.

“If we’re stockholders of the company, why did they terminate our colleagues? The termination is illegal,” Espino said, noting that the retrenchment was possibly a form of harassment to discourage opposition to the stock-distribution option.

The farmers urged the Department of Agrarian Reform to hasten the inclusion of Hacienda Luisita in the CARP. Party-list congressmen have already filed a resolution directing the “conduct of a general inquiry into the implementation of the stock-distribution-option scheme.”

Republic Act 6657, the Comprehensive Agrarian Reform Law, allows a landowner to give shares of stocks to his tenants under Sections 11 and 32 for commercial farming and production sharing, while the property is being considered for the CARP

boybi, mas maganda nga ito... stockholder sila... e kapag binigay mo naman sa mga yan, for sure ibebenta / sangla lang ng mga yan. edi sinong bibili? yung mayayaman ulit... tapos ikot ulit...

[mazdamazda]

teka teka... may nabasa akong bago...

There are many reasons why post-Marcos agrarian reform failed. On top of the list is the lack of financial support needed to run and complete the program. Funding is crucial especially now that the program is in a phase where government must concentrate on privately owned lands that have not been voluntarily offered for sale by their owners.

In this critical phase, government will need sufficient funding to properly compensate landowners. DAR estimates it will need around P117 billion for the remaining 1.19 million hectares.

Against this staggering amount, however, the budget allocation for land acquisition and distribution (LAD) has dwindled in recent years. Last year, LAD budget stood at P4.82 billion; this year it is down to P3.104 billion. As in other matters, government�s budget outlay for LAD is a measure of its commitment to agrarian reform.

lumalabas, na tayong taxpayers ang magbabayad para magkalupa sila?

ang suwerte naman nila!!!

[wowiesy]

Originally posted by boybi

regarding the distribution of the hacienda lands for the agrarian reform, the laborers were actually made owners of the entire CAT estate, i think more than 30%, the rest are retained by the cojuangcos. kung outright binigay yung mga lands sa mga tao, baka ibenta lang nila yun.

this is also another problem.. may kakilala ako sa bulakan.. marami at malalawak ang lupain nya.. may mga tenants sya... eventually unti unti na nyang kino convert yung mga agricultural lands nya at bine benta nya to either residential or industrial lots...

may batas tayo na ang tenant sa lupa ay may makukuhang halaga kapag nag decide ang land owner to sell the land... and actually may right of first refusal pa ang tenant sa lupa.. sa kanya dapat una i alok ang lupa.. if ever nalipat sa tenant ang ownership ng land.. usually bine benta din... dahil wala na syang ibang mautangan para sa farm inputs... wala din syang access to markets... benta na lang nya at least may pera na sya...

minsan naman... kapag ang tenant naman ay nakatanggap ng pera dahil na benta na nga yung lupa... saan saan din lang nagagastos yung pera nya...

tama yung report kamakailan lang... kahit mag average ng EIGHT BILLION US DOLLARS (USD 8,000,000,000.00) annually ang remittances ng mga Filipino OFWs sa kani kanilang mga kamag anak dito sa Pinas.. nauuwi din sa wala.... karamihan kasi sa kanila.. ipinupundar sa negosyong pabagsak na... like tricycle.. jeepney... taxi..

nakaka awa ang mga tao.. mga employees namin... minsan lumalapit sa akin.. "Boss.. pautang naman o... pambili ng tricycle... pampasada.. " okay sana.. noble intention... to get more income... but do the math... sa bulakan.. ang takbuhan ng boundary sa tricycle.. Php 80.00 per day... parami ng parami ang tricycle sa kalye.. hindi naman dumadami ang pasahero.. hindi rin dumadami ang kalye... at 80 per day.. compare that to the daily amortization to pay off the loan na ipinagbili ng tricycle... assuming pa yan na araw araw ay ilalabas yung tricycle.. pano kung nagkasakit yung driver? o may sira ang motor? in the end.. minsan.. nagigng service na lang yung tricycle.. pang hatid ng mga bata.. pag mamamalengke... pero di pa rin bayad yung utang na ipinambayad sa tricycle...

and yet paniwalang paniwala pa rin sila na pag may tricycle na sila ay aangat na ang buhay nila...

pasensya na po.. mukhang OT na i just thought i'd like to share some of my experiences with our workers sa factory namin...

[Kalinaw_75]

Originally posted by vixen

sa 30k,hmm conjuangcos are rich, they are everywhere, andami nilang business, kaya nila yun.

What an absurb idea, try again my friend.

[boybi]

workers naman namin, kakasweldo palang ngayon, bukas mangungutang na.

[wowiesy]

Originally posted by mazdamazda
“We were deceived when they [Cojuangcos] encouraged us not to get the lands because we didn’t have money [to till them]. They insisted on the [stock-distribution option], saying that our lives would be better because we would be part of the company,” Espino said. “They said we would earn big through shares of stocks. We now want to till the lands and own them through the CARP.”


boybi, mas maganda nga ito... stockholder sila... e kapag binigay mo naman sa mga yan, for sure ibebenta / sangla lang ng mga yan. edi sinong bibili? yung mayayaman ulit... tapos ikot ulit...

parang sa issue ng oil industry din yan eh... dati ang mga transport group.. panay ang lobby na i deregulate na ang oil industry.. look at what they're shouting now....

kung sabagay... as my boss sometimes say:

"FAIR IS ONLY FAIR, KUNG LAMANG AKO..." (pero kapag kahit ano pa yan.. basta agrabyado ako.. hindi fair yun.. )..

oh well....

[wowiesy]

Originally posted by vixen
sa 30k,hmm conjuangcos are rich, they are everywhere, andami nilang business, kaya nila yun. kung hindi uubra, why dont they face the people and negotiate. empathize with the people who are also a big help to them.

ganitong ganito ang usually hirit ng mga union leaders, militant leaders... yung mga ganitong statements kasi ay napakadaling mag generate ng emotions sa mga tao.. especially for those who don't know better...

pupuwede naman nilang sabihin itong statement na to this way:

"Sana ipakita ng Cojuangcos ang mga numero, kung bakit kaya nila o hindi nila kaya yung hinihingi nating 30k signing bonus... at kung hindi kaya, sana ipakita din nila ang computation kung hanggang saan ang kaya nila... "


Ang hirap kasi.. the constitution and the law provides for the laborers rights.. but these labor groups are in effect not just out to protect these rights.. they also want the rights to order how the business is supposed to be run... they want to be the boss... even without putting out capital... para sa kanila.. sapat na bilang investment nila yung nagtrabaho, at pinagpawisan sila sa trabaho...


in business you only become the boss when you pay ( as in the case of customers), invest capital (as in shareholders and owners)... yung iba.. hinding hindi magiging boss...

ang employees (whether management or labor, pareho pa rin silang employees) ay may salary para sa kanilang araw araw na pag tra trabaho sa loob ng kumpanya...

[Monseratto]

Originally posted by van_wilder
you should read the article "philippines a disgraceful state" at malalaman mo na ang presidente na nagsabi na nagimplement ng LAnd Reform ang unang-unang hindi sumunod dito... bakit hindi pa nadididivide ang hacienda luisita? eh diba it violates the agrarian reform?

mga elitista talaga... kung hindi sila tutulong sa mahihirap we'll see a french revolution in the philippines... its only a matter of time pero magtatake-over din ang mahihirap...

And then we'll have another Killing Fields... Whoopee!!

[mazdamazda]

Originally posted by van_wilder
you should read the article "philippines a disgraceful state" at malalaman mo na ang presidente na nagsabi na nagimplement ng LAnd Reform ang unang-unang hindi sumunod dito... bakit hindi pa nadididivide ang hacienda luisita? eh diba it violates the agrarian reform?

mga elitista talaga... kung hindi sila tutulong sa mahihirap we'll see a french revolution in the philippines... its only a matter of time pero magtatake-over din ang mahihirap...

walang pera ang gobyerno to effect the CARP. hindi basta basta na lang ipamimigay yung mga lupa ng landowners. ano sila, hilo? eh pinaghirapan ng mga mayayaman kaya sila nagka ganung mga lupain dba?

syempre kailangan i-compensate ang mga landowners para sa i didistribute na mga lupa.

[silver_corolla]

Pabor ako sa strike basta na sa tamang proseso. Pabor ako na namagitan ang DOLE para maging intermediary ng dalawa (employees & employer). Pabor din ako sa mga employers na may karapatan silang kumita, mag lay-off, mag retrench ng empleyado, mag cost cuttting kung talagang kinakailangan. Karapatan ng employer yan after all sila ang may ari ng company. Basta nasa tamang PROSESO lang at MAAYOS AT MAPAYAPANG pagpapahayag ng mga karapatan. Tinadhana ng batas natin yan ata walang makakapigil sa mga taong ito (employees, DOLE & employers) gawin ang dapat nilang gawin. This is one way of practicing democracy. Hayaan natin sila.

Ang sinasabi ko lang at mas concern ako sa mga taong nasaktan, nadamay at mga namatay dahil sa demokrasyang inabuso nila. Kung maayos nilang ginawa ang kilos protesta nila at hindi sila nag hakot ng mga taga labas or "NPA's", hindi siguro mauuwi sa madugong pangyayari yon. Sumigaw sila, paliwanagan nila ng maayos ang ibang ka-empleyado ng mga saloobin nila para sumama sa piket nila, makipag-dialogo sa management. OKAY lang yon. Wag na lang nila gamitan ng dahas dahil wala na sa batas yon at alam nilang hindi sila mananalo sa ganong pamamaraan. Lalo lang silang malulugmok sa kahirapan. Nawalan na nga ng trabaho asawa mo..... namatay pa sya. tsk! tsk! tsk!

[niky]

The problem really is the participation of the militant labor unions and communists...

paano pa naman... galing ako sa UP... you can have peaceful rallies and strikes, YES, BUT... I was passing by a SONA rally... mga pari at madre yung nasa harap... tapos yung mga militants sa likod, bigla nalang naghagis ng bato.... all hell breaks loose, tapos yung mga madre naman yung ina-arresto... unfair, to both police and protesters.

I'm not surprised by the claims that militants fired the first shots... I kind of expect that kind of thing already whenever something like this happens.

[niky]

Nobody wins by mass-action.

The Nestle and Toyota strikes? hire workers were earning over 15k a month for semi-skilled labor (these are drivers and forklift operators) back at a time when 15k was a good wage for supervisors outside. Drivers had their own houses and lots, appliances, educational and medical benefits PLUS food allowance. Now they have diddly-squat, the factories have closed, and the KMU is happy that they've managed to kick out yet another bourgeious foreign institution.

If we let the local unions and management talk, no problem... the moment the national unions get in, it's all over, FOR EVERYONE.

Feeling ko agenda talaga ito ng mga communists... reduce EVERYONE to the lowest possible denominator... labor, management, rich and poor alike... bring them DOWN... so communism will look like a palatable alternative.