Are filipino values still applicable?

[gearhead]

Had a discussion with a friend and it seems that we are now heading for a smaller Global Village. More and more of us as well are finding ourselves in foreign soil. And we interact more with peopleof different nationalities.

Are concepts like "pakikisama", "utang na loob", etc. antiquated? Or have they become all the more relevant?

Some obviously take some beliefs like "utang na loob" to the hilt as well. Is this warranted? Should it be tempered to suit the times and conditions?

[Flagg]

AFAIK, pinaka-outstanding Pinoy "value" is pinakamagaling tayo manligaw.

Diba yung unang Ms. Universe, pinoy yung asawa?

[Altis6453]

I think the Filipino value of "utang na loob" is very Asian. It's still very much applicable. Just ask American or even European businessmen. They'll tell you that if you stick it out with an asian partner despite the bad times, they'll most likely do business with when things are going good because of this.

[uls]

i would not consider utang na loob as a value. Values are always positive.

Utang na loob is more a trait. Like "bahala na" and "ningas cogon"

the dark side of utang na loob:
Private individuals/companies fund politicians' election campaign, politicians win, politicians protect the interests of the individuals/companies who helped them win.

People use the utang na loob tactic to lay guilt trips on other people.

Like if a person moves ahead in life, those left behind use guilt trips as means of extortion.

------------------------

Be wary of people who are too eager to help. Down the line, they will use it against u

[Flagg]

...Be wary of people who are too eager to help. Down the line, they will use it against u

Hmm, better this than no help at all.

[MAXBUWAYA]

Be wary of people who are too eager to help. Down the line, they will use it against u

Yup very true.



I dont know if this is value

But Filipino Close Family Ties for me is not good for us.

Sa mga Barrio o depress area, sobrang close ng family hindi na umaalis ang anak sa puder ng magulang, yung magulang na nagtratrabaho habangbuhay hanggang mamatay. hehehehehe

Plus Mga kamaganak na mahilig mangutang pag siningil mo galit pa! hehehehe

[uls]

friendships and family ties that go bad usually have this as a root cause

when u owe someone a favor and u are unable to return the favor when asked, u just made urself a new enemy

[uls]

I dont know if this is value

But Filipino Close Family Ties for me is not good for us.

Sa mga Barrio o depress area, sobrang close ng family hindi na umaalis ang anak sa puder ng magulang, yung magulang na nagtratrabaho habangbuhay hanggang mamatay. hehehehehe

Plus Mga kamaganak na mahilig mangutang pag siningil mo galit pa! hehehehe

Filipino close family ties has good and bad sides.

Good side is people always have someone to depend on. That's why we have low suicide rate and high gross national happiness (GNH)

Bad side is it breeds laziness. Having people to depend on encourages sitting at home all day. One breadwinner for every 6 to 10 family members... plus extended family?

and yes... pag di ka nag pautang, magagalit sila sau

[Flagg]

friendships and family ties that go bad usually have this as a root cause

when u owe someone a favor and u are unable to return the favor when asked, u just made urself a new enemy

Agreed. That's why you must always maintain a position of strength (or the appearance of one). Para takot pa rin sila sa iyo, even if you can't do that little favor for them.

It's all just a little psy war, this world of ours.

Btw, OT na ata tayo.

[6shooter]

Baka dapat parang Kano po tayo para umasenso. Kung tutuusin ang mga bansa na tulad ng Amerika kung saan matira ang matibay ang umaasenso. Dito po kasi pati yung mga inutil nabubuhay. OT ba eto?

Tingin ko po na ang mga sinasabing "values" ay siya mismong nakakasira sa atin.

Pansin niyo po na mahirap din sa Pinoy ang pranka? Pag ganun ka parang ikaw pa ang masama? Eh nagsasabi ka lang ng totoo.

[Flagg]

Baka dapat parang Kano po tayo para umasenso. Kung tutuusin ang mga bansa na tulad ng Amerika kung saan matira ang matibay ang umaasenso. Dito po kasi pati yung mga inutil nabubuhay. OT ba eto?
....

Sa Nigeria, matira ang matibay doon... Don't forget to send them your bank account details, para mapasaiyo ang malaking kayamanan na itinatago nila.

[mbeige]

There is no definite answer to your question because that all depends on the society and culture you will be surrounded in when you relocate to a different country. Ideally, start with a clean slate on the outside but keep genuine principles. Do not lose yourself in the transition, otherwise you will have to find your way once more. As with all things relative, there can be both positive and negative consequences of retaining or losing those traits (either forcefully or naturally). If you know the culture you will relocate to or will move into, then you can post it here so people who have been exposed to those cultures can advise you. Otherwise, there's no point.

For example, in the western world such as the US, you have to be assertive and avoid pakikisama because people here in the US are mostly independent and do not always rely on others, a trait Pinoys have when they hang around (tambay). On the other hand, keep your principles of hospitality and ambition, just know when you're being taken advantaged of because Western people can be too assertive to the point that your hospitality can be taken advantage of or taken for granted that you always submit and they always assert. So know the boundaries, and only experience will teach you how far you can go.

In essence, establish what Filipino values you have, what you like, what you don't like and what you want to keep should there be any need to lose some. On the other hand, also realize what values you can learn in the process of interacting with various other cultures. From there you will mold your personality once more to adapt to the new culture and society.

At least that's what I've learned since I moved to the US in 2003. Taking up Asian American Studies also helped me realize that other people think differently of you through racial biases/discrimination (even if they're all in the head, there still is discrimination) or previous experiences with other Pinoys, misconceptions through the media, etc. There are so many factors to consider. Like I said, experiment when trying to show or hide your values, and see what works with the society you're in and what does not. Small things add up to a whole experience but believe me, it's never consistent and it's always changing, relative mostly to the types of people you encounter and the types of cultures you are surrounded with.

To answer your question about "utang na loob," there are other things that can be generalized and not usually depend on the type of culture and society such as "utang na loob" or indebtedness. If you admit to yourself that you are in debt to somebody, repay him or her more than what they gave you initially. That will show that you truly appreciate them and you want to earn their respect and friendship. This goes a long way if properly established. However, if they turn out not to be as grateful as you thought they were and neglected to return the favor when you asked of it, then consider it charged to experience and be more careful next time. To me, I don't openly demand that my friends or acquaintances repay the favor I did for them in the past. I observe and see whether they willfully show gratitude by returning the favor, and if not then I'd be more cautious if they asked for another favor. It might seem negative from somebody else's point of view of us being so defensive and all, but we've all had our fair share of people taking advantage of us, and obviously it's never a pleasant experience to go through it once more.

In essence it's all like coffee - you mix it the way you like it whether it be bitter or sweet. Relativity is always there - everybody has their own taste and preference. There are some times it's too bitter or too sweet, too cold or too hot - but you drink it anyway and charge it to experience, right? If this happens you'll avoid the shop that gave you that bad mix, or tell them how you want it and give them another chance. If you like it, see if adding other flavors makes it better for you. Utang na loob? Well, if the coffee was perfect, you can refer friends to the store or go back for more. This represents paying back more than what they gave you like I mentioned earlier. If not, well, there's always another coffee shop somewhere. Tambay? Sure, but when it's time to get back to work or do something important, we can't always stay around and chat over coffee. Pakikisama? Again, if there's nothing to do, well and good. If it's a busy day, rain check.

Edit: Sorry about the long reply, I know I got carried away but I was just thinking about this exact same thing today and while I was typing it, I realized I think of this every day Im here especially so that I'm taking the class I mentioned so I get to have better awareness of what's going on. I hope I've helped provide some kind of insight at least

[VtEC]

Yup very true.


Sa mga Barrio o depress area, sobrang close ng family hindi na umaalis ang anak sa puder ng magulang, yung magulang na nagtratrabaho habangbuhay hanggang mamatay. hehehehehe

Plus Mga kamaganak na mahilig mangutang pag siningil mo galit pa! hehehehe

ha ha ha , this maybe better than tossing your oldies to home for the aged.

[empy]

imo, absolutely. the Filipino set of values is something the Filipino should be proud of in the world stage. especially the values of friendship and family ties. i can't tell you how many members of other cultures have come up to me and professed a deep envy for the close friendships and family bonds that we have.

don't make the mistake of blaming the set of values if some people try to corrupt them. true "utang na loob" is given freely and without any expectations from the giver. if some people bastardize that concept, that's called blackmail, not utang na loob.

[ejr]

Plus Mga kamaganak na mahilig mangutang pag siningil mo galit pa! hehehehe

eto ang tumpak na tumpak he he he . . . pero hindi yung kamag anak ko kundi yung ke misis . . . sabi sa bonus daw babayadan. eh ang nakalimutan kong itanung eh kung kailang bonus Nov.2007 o June2008 o Nov.2008 baka mas matagal pa dun.

[the_wildthing]

Ano nga ba ang mga "values" na talagang Filipino? I know there was some topic in grade school but I forgot. I know of some values but I don't think they are truly distinctly Filipino.

EDIT: Values = Pagpapahalaga, tama ba?

[CVT]

I believe that some shades of them still are applicable, especially if you're dealing with your Asian counterparts.

However, everyone's acting in a global manner, so being up to date and conversant with the latest trends in technology (since we're a technology company), assertiveness, take-charge attitude, being proactive as opposed to being reactive and a good command of the English language should always be an advantage, in our case, since our HQ is in the US.

4505:vader:

[smooth]

Filipino close family ties has good and bad sides.

Good side is people always have someone to depend on. That's why we have low suicide rate and high gross national happiness (GNH)

Bad side is it breeds laziness. Having people to depend on encourages sitting at home all day. One breadwinner for every 6 to 10 family members... plus extended family?

and yes... pag di ka nag pautang, magagalit sila sau

kwento: may pasyente dati na inoperahan. anak daw niya na nagtatrabaho sa ibang bansa ang magbabayad. nung bayaran na, humingi ng 50% discount. kulang daw ang ipinadala ng anak niya. okay, pumayag ang duktor. after a few days, tumawag sa cell ng duktor ang anak, kinakamusta ang inay niya. nag-update ang duktor. sa kwentuhan, naikwento ng duktor na humingi ng 50% discount ang pasyente kasi kulang nga daw ang ipinadala ng anak. biglang umiyak at nag-breakdown ang anak. kasi lagpas 150% ng estimate na bill na ang naipadala ng anak.

on further investigation: ginamit pala ng pasyente ang perang ipinadala ng anak para ipambili ng mga regalo sa ibang mga kapatid ng anak. yung mga kapatid ng anak, puro walang trabaho dito sa pinas. puro tambay. e matagal na daw gusto ng mga ito magkaroon ng xrm na motorsiklo. kaya ayun, ipinang-downpayment ng xrm ang perang ipinapadala ng anak.

nag-breakdown ang anak. halos hindi na nga daw siya kumain ng tatlong beses sa isang araw parang lang makapagpadala ng pera para sa operasyon ng inay niya. yun pala e ginamit lang na pang-regalo sa kapatid niya.

true story. what do you guys think?

(OT na ba? sorry kung OT. pero parang part pa din kasi ito ng "close family ties.)

[uls]

Poor kid.

Kaya hirap umasenso ang isang Filipino individual kasi there are too many people weighing him down. It's either he feels obliged to help or people oblige him to help.

[Jun aka Pekto]

Close family ties is an important Pinoy value. But, it's certainly not unique to the Philippines. Rather, it's more of an Asian trait.

It's also a misnomer to say Westerners don't have close family ties. They may be more independent and live far away from each other which seem to indicate a disconnect. But come Thanksgiving or the Christmas Holidays, I see many of them congregate in homes. We're the same way here. We always come home to relatives in NV during long holidays. But, we try to live far enough apart (from them) to avoid the politics and spats they often have.

As for "utang na loob"..... forget it. When our daughter(s) grow up, they don't owe us anything besides trying to make a better life for themselves. We'll be there for them should they stumble. But, no. They don't owe me and the wife anything. We're the ones who brought them to this world. It's our (the wife and I) burden, not the kids'.

Add: The same goes for those we're supporting in the Philippines. They don't owe anything back to us. All we asked of them is to do their best in their studies and make a better life for themselves.