Angelo dela Cruz (Merged threads)

**yebo** · July 10th, 2004 10:33 PM

dagdag ko lang sa sinabi ni mbt.

US soldiers killed more filipinos in 4 years of fil-am war than 300 years of revolts against spain -- 1899-1902, approximately 20,000 filipino soldiers killed and 600,000 to 1,000,000 filipino civilians killed depending on who is doing the counting, american or filipino.

"Talk about war being 'hell,' this war beats the hottest estimate ever made of that locality. Caloocan was supposed to contain seventeen thousand inhabitants. The Twentieth Kansas swept through it, and now Caloocan contains not one living native. Of the buildings, the battered walls of the great church and dismal prison alone remain. The village of Maypaja, where our first fight occurred on the night of the fourth, had five thousand people on that day, -- now not one stone remains upon top of another. You can only faintly imagine this terrible scene of desolation. War is worse than hell."--Captain Elliott, of the Kansas Regiment, February 27th

so why do we always ally ourselves with them? can't the government of our country at least recognize that the americans don't and will never have permanent friends and only permanent interests.

i say bring those soldiers home and save dela Cruz. the life of that poor ofw is not worth the pogi points GMA wants to earn from her master Mr. Bush. if she wants to cozy up to her american "friend" then she can always suck his dick. she does not have the mandate to sacrifice any filipino for her desires to be screwed by uncle sam.

"My nation cannot remain indifferent in view of such violent and aggressive seizure of a portion of its territory by a nation which has arrogated to itself the title: champion of oppressed nations."
-- Gen. Emilio Aguinaldo, 1898

**4xfoot** · July 10th, 2004 11:44 PM

medyo unpopular comment ko pero i say god bless dela cruz for whatever will happen to him.

i think gma is right, you have to think the global perspective of the issue. bringing home the troops would make our government look like a kid easily get scared. this would have a negative impact on investors.

**empy** · July 10th, 2004 11:52 PM

any updates on this poor guy? the news sources i'm reading are saying that GMA will withdraw her contingent on aug. 20...i am not sure if this was the original plan, or if she's giving in to the terrorist demands.

of course it is up to Filipinos and the Filipino government to decide whether they want to support the US in Iraq. but again, keep in mind the message that this government is sending to the world - "we can be coerced and threatened". if you guys truly don't want to support the US, then you should have pulled out long before...right now, the timing's pretty bad.

Originally posted by mbt
but let's look at the other end. the Middle Easterners execute a person with a blade and the whole world fulminates. yet, the USA looses missiles and weapons of more massive destruction on innocent civilians and innocent children, and hardly anyone raises a fuss.

who said no one is raising a fuss? read BBC and Al-Jazeera - many people in Europe, the Middle East and elsewhere are all up in arms about this. even in America, Bush's approval ratings are at all time lows because of this and the war in general.

but that's not even the point. maybe you can prove me wrong, but the US has never deliberately targeted civilians in this war. THAT IS THE BIG DIFFERENCE from the other side, which goes out of their way to kidnap and behead people who are not only non-combatants, but are not even supporting the US in the war.

there are cases where the US has bombed schools and mosques, but this is in response to a well-documented insurgent strategy of locating their sniper nests, weapon storage facilities, and safe houses in these structures. i don't know about you guys, but if i was taking fire from a building and seeing my comrades dying around me, i would call in an airstrike on that building - no matter if it was a church, a school, or even my parents house.

speaking of propaganda, this is a brilliant move for the terrorists. if the US soldiers hesitate, it's easier to kill them. if they bomb the school/mosque, then there are great pictures of burning mosques and dead children to show the world and make people hate America even more.

propaganda works both ways. we should all keep an open mind.

**empy** · July 11th, 2004 12:00 AM

Originally posted by yebo
US soldiers killed more filipinos in 4 years of fil-am war than 300 years of revolts against spain -- 1899-1902, approximately 20,000 filipino soldiers killed and 600,000 to 1,000,000 filipino civilians killed depending on who is doing the counting, american or filipino.

"Talk about war being 'hell,' this war beats the hottest estimate ever made of that locality. Caloocan was supposed to contain seventeen thousand inhabitants. The Twentieth Kansas swept through it, and now Caloocan contains not one living native. Of the buildings, the battered walls of the great church and dismal prison alone remain. The village of Maypaja, where our first fight occurred on the night of the fourth, had five thousand people on that day, -- now not one stone remains upon top of another. You can only faintly imagine this terrible scene of desolation. War is worse than hell."--Captain Elliott, of the Kansas Regiment, February 27th

i don't get the point of this story. the US and the Philippines were enemies for years, then friends for years afterwards. how about their help liberating our grandparents from the Japanese in WW2? we can post stories for either side all day.

the point is that neither the Fil-Am war or WW2 has any bearing on today. judge your support as a country for the Iraq war based on the merits of the Iraq war alone.

the Americans of the 1800's have nothing to do with the Americans of today, much as today's Germans have nothing to do with the Nazis. if i found out my great-grandfather was a murderer and a rapist, i would certainly hope that no one today would assume i was a bad person as well.

**mbt** · July 11th, 2004 12:31 AM

yeah, i agree about the timing... personally, i think the best thing for the government to do now is to enforce a strict no-negotiation policy. the die has been cast long ago by the very decision of directly engaging Filipinos in the war, and the best thing to do now is to protect the greater interest of the nation. a tough, probably unpopular decision must be made. :whoa:

m54 powered,

of course, granted that the US brass has never intended civilian casualties, and perhaps a case can even be made that the War was founded on noble goals. but it is my own belief (which i am in no way imposing on others) that Bush's war is uncalled for given the premises that Bush has given prior to the war, and hence, all civilian deaths, and indeed, all military deaths as well, were unnecessary. in basic terms, they may well be murder.

in contrast, a war founded on moral principles, such as say, World War 2 or perhaps the American Civil War, does not constitute murder.

my position is that the allied forces in iraq fight valorously, and of course, are justified in using the techniques of warfare for their self-preservation, but they are fighting a war that should never have begun in the first place...

i speak of 'not raising a fuss' in the sense that some people are quick to condemn the oft-stereotyped Arabs but equally quick to proclaim all American actions as morally-justified... and sadly but understandably, this is an attitude that is prevalent among Filipinos. of course, there is domestic and international debate over the justifications for the war, but for Filipinos in general, the sentiment about the war appears to be one of indifference, or a by-default acceptance of American policy. thus, my statement, "hardly anyone raises a fuss". sorry for not making my thoughts clearer

an open mind necessarily means that the pot also calls itself black after calling the kettle so, and naturally, also rejects the position of extreme, absolute anti-Americanism, as well as absolute pro-Americanism. i speak against my own careful analysis and judgment of the facts of the war, and respect yours.

**kedeka** · July 11th, 2004 01:14 AM

Angelo de la Cruz had been released.

http://www.inq7.net/brk/2004/jul/10/brkpol_14-1.htm

**dieselNUBI** · July 11th, 2004 02:42 AM

buti nalang!

**BoyL3** · July 11th, 2004 05:04 AM

http://www.inq7.net/brk/2004/jul/11/brkpol_1-1.htm

**yebo** · July 11th, 2004 07:11 AM

m54Powered,

you did not get my point because you did not read the whole post, you just focused on the 1st 2 pharagraphs. did you read the part that says "america has no permanent friends, only permanent interest..."? people tend not to understand what is written because people are selective in their understanding. if you take the complete post as a whole then you would have understood the meaning quite well.

just to let you know, i am not anti-american. i am however against the policy of the philippine government to suck uncle sam's dick all day long. the philippines should not be supporting the US in Iraq because the war there HAS NO MERITS. WHERE ARE THE WMD THAT BUSH WAS TALKING ABOUT?????

**empy** · July 11th, 2004 07:35 AM

Originally posted by mbt
my position is that the allied forces in iraq fight valorously, and of course, are justified in using the techniques of warfare for their self-preservation, but they are fighting a war that should never have begun in the first place...
.
.
.
i speak of 'not raising a fuss' in the sense that some people are quick to condemn the oft-stereotyped Arabs but equally quick to proclaim all American actions as morally-justified... and sadly but understandably, this is an attitude that is prevalent among Filipinos.

that's fine. i respect your opinion also. i agree with you on two points: that this war does not appear to be a moral war, and that many people automatically stereotype the arabs as evil and the US as doing no wrong.

all American actions are not morally justified, and i will admit that we as a nation did not seem to be emotionally prepared for the tactics the enemy has employed and brutality that this war has created.

i merely wanted to point out that the propaganda war is active on both sides, and the enemy is actually quite good at this kind of war (painting our soldiers as evil and enemies of Islam, creating fear and terror among soldiers and civilians)...and that we should look carefully beneath the surface of everything reported about this war.

i think you get it, so i'll stop here.