how do lexus cars really compare to european cars?

[x_outpost]

Running 2 seconds is only part of the equation. The engine may be able to run that but the chassis is not designed to handle that power. Thus, it is still a Civic.

Does it make a 2 second Civic a Ferrari? IMO, no, a Civic is a Civic is a Civic.
You may call it what you want, but the fact is, it is always going to be a Civic.

Would you call a 2 second Civic a Lambo? I don't think so. That's not being snob. That's a simple fact.

so what does "how everything works" mean? the civic is now virtually insulated from outside and engine noise, does 0-60 in 2 seconds, and has nice leather interior. so what else does the civic have to do, so that "everything works", so's it can start comparing with european automotive royalty? or are we dealing with snob appeal?
decades ago, there was this series of ads in the US by an american car manufacturer, where the subject customer was blindfolded, then asked to ride some cars... without snob appeal, the pedestrian brands could actually compete with royalty..

[jhnkvn]

The matter here isn't really what's practical but it borders more on social perception. The thread itself says it all "how does Lexus compare to European cars?"

I won't argue with that. We buy cars based on social perception. If we aren't, we'll all be going for the best in-technical-specs and that Hyundai's Equus would be selling like hotcakes now thanks to its features and price.

Any "normal" consumer will have less brand prestige for Lexus compared to European cars. Just ask your sister, your mom, or some of the less fortunate people. Europeans cars have long been equated with luxury is because we were brought up to think that they are luxury. You don't see James Bond driving in a Lexus do you?

Now, driving a Lexus will have less brand prestige than driving a BMW to the usual crowd. They'll say "It's a Lexus" or "It's Japanese!" or "Dude, you're driving a Toyota" or some other low-blows you can throw at it. But that's the point of why Lexus is selling well. Because people want to have a less-eyecandy alternative to the usual German or Italian brands.

All of this boils down to the fact on whether you're satisfied. Who are you pleasing?

Then if you're a speed junkie, a 2 second Alpha 12 GT-R would rank on the same page as a Veyron. It might not have the same chassis, or a W16 engine, or the "holy ****, a Veyron!". But you'll still love it is because it's the epitome of speed. In fact, you'll probably love it more because you can further modify it to your liking.

If you're somebody established, a European car such as a S-Class would be befitting of your stature. On the otherhand, if you're a local politician that's embroiled in our PDAF scam, it might be a better idea to roll around in a Lexus rather than a BMW or Porsche ;)

[x_outpost]

But going for all-premium is expensive and that's why the Sesto Elemento is craptastically expensive.

As long as the parts is good as it is, I believe consumers should be satisfied. Cars nowadays are become more and more refined.. it's either because I'm aging or people are being pampered more. In this case, it's both. For example, multiple-zone climate controls were usually limited to the really premium models back in the day but can be found in Civics nowadays.

Nah, the reason why Jaguar was a flop was because.. well, it's Ford. Ford was a flop then... but Ford isn't a flop now. Hell, if Ford's parts bin was crap then, what about Tata Motors whos line-up was value-centric and targeted India's growing low and mid-income classes? It's not really much about the price.. but rather the quality.

As niky said, just use quality parts. I as a consumer won't really care what's inside of the car.. as long as it's as advertised... and it works. I might care if my car has a ZF transmission... or it has a V12 growling behind me.. but if it does not work.. all of that care will be in the form of complaints and lawsuits.

Just because you don't care what parts are inside your car doesn't mean everyone doesn't care.
Let me ask you this, you sound like you have owned a lot of premium cars, what premium cars have YOU owned in the past or currently own?
In my experience, a lot of forum peeps just say whatever they perceive and they state it like it was a fact. I'm curious if you have any first hand experience about owning a premium car (and maybe a premium car that shares parts with a "cheaper" brand).

[x_outpost]

If you're somebody established, a European car such as a S-Class would be befitting of your stature. On the otherhand, if you're a local politician that's embroiled in our PDAF scam, it might be a better idea to roll around in a Lexus rather than a BMW or Porsche ;)

I am so lost.....so if you are someone established everyone should get an S-class???
If you are a politian with scams it would be a "better" idea to "roll around" in a Lexus rather than BMW or Porsche???
I don't get it...says who???? Is there some kind of law or practical reason why someone in the right mind should do these???

[x_outpost]

Any "normal" consumer will have less brand prestige for Lexus compared to European cars. Just ask your sister, your mom, or some of the less fortunate people. Europeans cars have long been equated with luxury is because we were brought up to think that they are luxury. You don't see James Bond driving in a Lexus do you?

All of this boils down to the fact on whether you're satisfied. Who are you pleasing?

Then if you're a speed junkie, a 2 second Alpha 12 GT-R would rank on the same page as a Veyron. It might not have the same chassis, or a W16 engine, or the "holy ****, a Veyron!". But you'll still love it is because it's the epitome of speed. In fact, you'll probably love it more because you can further modify it to your liking.

What is a "normal" consumer??? So everyone who buys a Lexus or perceives Lexus as the best car in its class is "normal" or everyone else is what? Abnormal???

Do you have to ask "your mom, sister and less fortunately people" what car you should buy and what they this is the best??? I don't. I buy what I think meets my needs, my wants and my budget. In fact, I don't know anyone who consults their mom or sister, or anyone who is "less fortunate" than me to decide what is the best car or brand for me. I hope you don't buy cars from consulting "less fortunate people"...and its funny you put "mom", "sister" and "less fortunately people" in the same sentence....

I'm sorry, but I feel like I'm talking to a 15 year old here....Thanks for your inputs by the way...I'll try to keep that in mind next time I buy a car...

[x_outpost]

To some extent, buying any "premium" car is silly, because the mechanical bits are just mechanical bits. There's not really much in a "premium" car that puts it above and beyond a new "regular" car besides some extra insulation and nicer interior materials. They all use engines, suspensions, brakes and bearings.

So your argument is, buying premium car is silly, because they all have mechanical bits such as engine, suspensions, brakes and bearings.
Let's assume, this is correct. So, a jeepney or an owner-type jeep have all those components, and for the most part, the parts work good.
Therefore, it is the same as any other car - correct???

You also admitted that you are "cheap" - which is a relevant term.

As a car-guy (and I've been driving since I was 10 years old) - I don't think I would agree on that. Your logic doesn't make sense. If it is, why would people buy expensive cars???? I've owned a few dozen cars from my hard earned money and every car drives differently (FYI, I've owned Hondas, Toyotas, Mitsus, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Porsche, VW, Acura, Mazda, and a Lotus - even cars of the same brand drive differently. And yes, even if you blindfold me, I can tell you which car is which from the way it drives, even from the way it smells).

I know we all have personal opinion and you are entitled but sadly, I don't agree that all cars are the same or buying a premium car is silly.
I would like to know what premium car you have bought in the past so you can justify that buying a premium car is silly.

[shadow]

Let me ask you this, you sound like you have owned a lot of premium cars, what premium cars have YOU owned in the past or currently own?
In my experience, a lot of forum peeps just say whatever they perceive and they state it like it was a fact. I'm curious if you have any first hand experience about owning a premium car (and maybe a premium car that shares parts with a "cheaper" brand).

I would like to know what premium car you have bought in the past so you can justify that buying a premium car is silly.

Lets get it on!!!!


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#retzing

[imperialv]

Just sharing guys...

Our LC200 is using TMGO (toyota motor genuine oil) full synthetic cost 600.00++ per liter provided by toyota dealer.

Our 2013 ES350 is using LMGO (lexus motor genuine oil) full synthetic 1K+++.. Per liter provided by Lexus Manila.

Will it hurt if i use tmgo in our lexus.. :-) or may effect talaga ang branding sa price.

[foresterx]

i find it funny when people comment about cars they've never driven, owned or rode on. if you've only driven/owned/rode an entry level european car then how can you actually compare them? even if you we're able to drive one or rode one for an hour or a day that still isn't long enough to actually see the difference. i've driven and owned a lot of european cars and driven a lot of lexus and honestly the lexus can be compared to an entry level european car but if you compare their flagship models then i'd say they're still pretty far apart.

[niky]

I beg to differ. You cannot compare a M3 and a 328i. it's not just "extran insulation and nicer interior materials".
It's how everything works. You can put a V10 on a Civic, put a 1 foot thick insulation, it may run 0-60 miles in 2 seconds, but IMHO, it will still be a Civic.

The M3 is as different from the 328i as the Type R is from the regular Civic, or the Evo from the regular Lancer.

If I'm buying a premium car, then I would prefer to have premium parts.
The reason why Jaguar was a flop when Ford owned them because they were putting parts from Ford parts bin.
I think most people care that when they buy something premium, it should look premium, feel premium, work premium and real.

Jaguar was a flop not because of the parts they used, but because Ford at the time was terrible at developing brands and models. They'd spend a lot on a car up front then let it rot on the vine with little follow-up, reengineering or planning.

Also, the X-Type was not a premium car using mass-market parts... it was basically a mass-market car with premium parts. A Ford Mondeo dressed up and re-imagined as a Jag. This is something that worked for Toyota with the ES, and for Rolls-Royce with the 7-series based Phantom, but it didn't work for Ford. All down to market perception of the respective cars (and because the V6 wasn't that reliable or great a motor.)

It's all about market perception... the same market perception that made the VW Phaeton, which is basically an Audi with a VW skin and a lower price tag, a flop. The same market perception that has people paying a fortune for Rolexes when a Seiko at a tenth of the price keeps better time.

-

Audi is different. They use shared parts... but the A4 to A8 platforms are completely different from VW products, with a longitudinal engine layout... and the R8 is basically a cut-down Gallardo. And whatever parts they have under the hood, at least the interiors are great. When we started this part of the discussion, that's all I wanted to point out.

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Let me clarify. Premium purchases are silly in the same way all brand-new purchases are silly. You're spending extra for intangibles. Dad had a Merc. Lovely car, but not practical. Uncle has a brand new S-Class, which is terrific, but a nightmare to maintain. Personally, I don't buy. I don't really care if I'm driving around a ten year old Crosswind, it does what I want it to, and I don't really care to spend the cost of a house (here in the Philippines, due to the taxes) to project an image.

But like I said: As long as it makes you happy, go ahead. I can fully understand and even appreciate it. I'm just saying Audi's use of VW parts doesn't make it any worse than its competitors, who also share parts (or are starting to share parts) with cheaper makes.