adventure or carens or crosswind whos best in overall

[twister]

hello to all tsikoteers,im very thankful for all your reply,its really big help for me what to choose...

THANK YOU VERY MUCH...

[Horsepower]

Why not just buy a Strada DiD? starts at 855k only. Very good crash ratings in Europe and USA, proven engine block. No chokes whatsoever. Very fast, nice ride too. It's very decent to be used as an office car or a business vehicle.

The Santa Fe CRDI VGT which I immersed in windshield deep flood (Araneta Ave) never had a problem for 3yrs already so this fear of common-rail is unfounded (except if you're gonna choose a Toyota D-4D which is kind of a lottery or worse, Isuzu 4JX1 <trooper '03>).

If we're gonna submit to the premise to buy only proven stuffs, then we'll never progress into the next generation of technology. We'd be stuck driving around steam engined cars.

We had a water-in-fuel scenario back then (here in manila of all places!!!) but all you have to is drain the fuel filter by loosening a little nut (its plug). That's it. After the water is gone, it'll go as if nothing happened again. It will not be damaged because when the computer senses that there's water, it will warn you through the instrument cluster panel (where the speedo is) and it will not go beyond 60kmh. Since you'll get used to driving at 160kmh around manila, you'll definitely notice that.

If I were you, I'd get a Strada 2.5 or a Montero Sport 2.5 (though for the MS, I would've prefered a 5MT than a 4AT).

Carens is a very good choice too. Kind of sayang though kung pang-business since it's very nice.

Anyway, good luck.

[niky]

Like I've said... if you're a typical city owner, you're never going to see the problems before you sell... ;)

Now people like me... I've got 172,000 kms on the Crosswind, 95,000 kms on the Lynx and we've already put 22,000 kms on the CR-V... in the first six months of Honda ownership.... we really beat up our equipment... long-term longevity is a must for us.

Which is why I'm happy with my Lynx... while it hasn't been trouble-free, it's been better than most cars we've had when they reached that age... (and no, GH... the trips to Speedlab are mostly voluntary... )

That said... we were actually seriously considering a Santa Fe... and if not for the amazing discount we got on the CR-V, might have bought it.

[Bogeyman]

If we're gonna submit to the premise to buy only proven stuffs, then we'll never progress into the next generation of technology. We'd be stuck driving around steam engined cars.

Good point. The virtues of common rail deserve to be hailed in any book (one would be an idiot not to acknowledge the benefits it brings in terms of power, speed and efficiency). But the resulting vulnerability and subsequent cost are major steps backward, which makes the technology still somewhat dodgy for me.

To bring out common rail’s real benefits, you need consistently purer diesel than what is locally available at the moment, which means further refining, which means raising prices, which means good luck in managing to do so without raising a howl of protest (and a whole bunch of fists) from at least one concerned transport sector.

IMO, common rail technology points the direction where diesel is heading, it’s not the destination per se. The technology can still do better, and it will.

[Gerbo]

Good point. The virtues of common rail deserve to be hailed in any book (one would be an idiot not to acknowledge the benefits it brings in terms of power, speed and efficiency). But the resulting vulnerability and subsequent cost are major steps backward, which makes the technology still somewhat dodgy for me.

To bring out common rail’s real benefits, you need consistently purer diesel than what is locally available at the moment, which means further refining, which means raising prices, which means good luck in managing to do so without raising a howl of protest (and a whole bunch of fists) from at least one concerned transport sector.

IMO, common rail technology points the direction where diesel is heading, it’s not the destination per se. The technology can still do better, and it will.

Nicely said.

But third-world realities are pulling us ....its not a misnomer that "purer' diesels are based on Euro compliance.....where standards of almost everything else is such a huge disparity from what we currently have.....

So we have to settle for reliability... what's the Pilipino word for it? Subok na which is a bedrock for decision-making for generations.

CRDI will just have to prove it can do the job in our motoring climate. Apparently, previous attempts (i.e. Isuzu's 4JX1) and current ones (i.e. Toyota's D4D) give quite an ambivalence on the technology.

Puede kaya diesel sa Pilipinas ibenta parang ice cream?...a choice of "dirty ice cream"--cheap but quality is at the mercy of peddlers, and "premium ice cream" the likes of Nestle and Selecta.

Sa gasolina kasi puede eh? Once upon a time they simply call it regular and special.

Why not on diesels?

[roberto_minosa]

^There are some things that must be sacrificed in order to move up to the next level of development. This is the same case in our government, society, and everything else we benefit from. Imagine, if Intel had not developed the 8086, if East Germany never let go of communism, and if the common-rail diesel engine remained a blueprint on the R&D of BMW, where would we be??? And now, if we don't let go of using crude and polluting diesel, where will we be??? Never mind the masses who don't know what they're talking about. If other countries can make clean diesel cheap, we sure as hell can in our country of improvisation.

p.s. And I won't imagine myself writing this on DOS if Windows hadn't been made.

[XTO]

If the diesel quality is the main issue for your commonrail, Seaoil has it.

Seaoil to Offer First Euro-5 Diesel in the Country

Seaoil Philippines Inc. has entered into a $30-million supply contract for the sale and distribution of the low emission Euro-5 diesel product, making it the first oil firm in the country to comply with the highest European emission standards.

Seaoil president and chief executive Francis Glenn Yu said they have forged an agreement with SK Networks, a major South Korean trading house, for the supply of Euro-5 diesel over the next six months.

At present, diesel being sold in the Philippines is only at Euro-2 standard.SK Networks, a member of SK Corp., one of the biggest South Korean global conglomerates, is a leading player in the global trading of oil, gas, coal, steel and chemical products.

Yu explained that the European emission standards consist of sets of requirements defining the acceptable limits for exhaust emissions of new vehicles sold in the European Union member states.

These standards specify the progressive introduction of increasingly stringent fuel regulations requiring a minimum of 10 parts per million sulfur content and diesel cetane number (CN) of 51.

Reduced sulfur is a key enabler in realizing reduced tail pipe emissions while CN is a measure of the combustion quality of diesel fuel during compression ignition or the fuel’s ignition delay. Thus, the higher the CN, the shorter the ignition delay period.

Generally, diesel engines run well with a CN from 40 to 55. Hence, higher speed diesels operate more effectively with higher CN fuels.

Yu said Euro-5 diesel would further boost Seaoil’s product line that already boasts of several pioneering efforts.

“The company started the use of biofuels and other alternative fuels in the country with the introduction of the use of ethanol as a gasoline blend,” he added.

In 2005, it made the first ethanol-blended gasoline, or E10, available to the public, two years ahead of the implementation of the Biofuels Act.

The law states that all fuel products must be two-percent blended with biofuels within the year, increasing to a 10-percent mix by 2011.

Seaoil currently offers a 10-percent blend of ethanol in all its gasoline products as well as a one-percent blend in all its diesel products.

[tidus1203]

Is this available NOW and available in ALL Seaoil branches?

[Ventoy]

For me I'd rather Get the 2.5 Strada GLX MT mas maganda kasi Mitsubishi Diesel lalo yung 4D56 DID sobrang subok na bago naging CRDI. Kaya VVTi na TOYOTA NAMIN:dahil sa D4d issues:
Carens naman Grabe yung KIA sobrang Overpricing sila !!!!!

[Bogeyman]

^There are some things that must be sacrificed in order to move up to the next level of development.

Could have sacrificed a bit of the speed instead, since diesels were never about speed anyway. But compromising reliability (of all things) in favor of visceral thrills is hardly what I would call the 'next level of development'.

Seaoil's offer is heaven sent. If more players follow suit, it would be all the better for common rail vehicles sold locally; luxury marques such as BMW for instance would no longer have to detune their common rail models just to adapt to our dirtier fuel.

[roberto_minosa]

Could have sacrificed a bit of the speed instead, since diesels were never about speed anyway. But compromising reliability (of all things) in favor of visceral thrills is hardly what I would call the 'next level of development'.

Seaoil's offer is heaven sent. If more players follow suit, it would be all the better for common rail vehicles sold locally; luxury marques such as BMW for instance would no longer have to detune their common rail models just to adapt to our dirtier fuel.

I'm being idealistic again.

Next level means the fuel has to keep up with newer engines. What else is old anyway? The fuel. I mean really, is it that practical for engineers to make their engines relatively more reliable (while they already are) on the compromise of performance and convenience (and emissions!) just for the sake of a single third world country with dirty diesel where their engines break down while it doesn't everywhere else? There's no development in that. No one would make a carbon composite chassis on the reason that it doesn't rust. Same story on engines.

It's not that I meant detuning the engines like what they do in the US to make do with their low-octane gas, but to purify diesel in order to keep up with the standards of modern engines and reduce emissions at the same time. There's not yet a law that mandates it. If everyone else in the world are not having problems with their modern diesels, then the problems must be found somewhere else. Like in the fuel. Let's not blame someone responsible like the engineers who designed these engines. Let's blame someone else irresponsible enough to sell dirty diesel at jacked-up prices. No development in that practice.

Seaoil's plan looks like a good alternative to third world diesel. Everyone with a common-rail will top up there once it's proven. I hope that bankrupts the Big 3 for lack of innovation. Now here's a sign of development.

And for the record, diesel cars offer far from visceral thrills. Well, unless it's a big Audi or a UK Civic which aren't relevant here because they're from somewhere developed.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>

I'd still go common-rail anytime. It's probably the same skepticism now as in the early days when EFI was first put into gas engines of cars. If anyone remembers the story of Bendix, after failing to make a proper EFI system in the mid-1950s, they sold their system to Bosch. Now, all of us probably know where Bosch is today. EFI has been proven more efficient, and has become the standard today. That's why no one makes carb'd cars anymore. There's always hope in failure! Eventually, diesels in the future (is it today?) will share a similar story as EFI in gas engines.

In short, I won't wet my pants making the jump to more modern diesels. I wouldn't want to make driving a chore. We've had luck with our diesel Innova. It never broke down. If just some guy like myself (and 4 other friends with D4Ds) was lucky enough not to drive a notorious D4D lemon car, then what are the chances of buying one with a defect? I think it won't be a matter of winning the Lotto considering that Kia's diesels are not as notorious as Toyota's.

I'd still suggest the Carens based on TS's choices. But I highly recommend getting a Strada or Montero Sport instead for a weekend car.

[moymoy07]

I Agree to that fuel economy manila-lucena city.... 9-10km/liter , I got my new carens last july 12,2009


I regularly travel between Baguio and Pangasinan and I have no problems about overtaking especially on uphill climbs.

Space-wise, second and third row seats are foldable.

Fuel economy - I get an average of 11-14 kms /liter on highways. 9-10 kms liter mixed hway and city.

Driving comfort - very good.[/quote]

[KERSMcRae]

Import taxes make the Carens expensive, even if they short-specced (safety features removed) the RP units to lower the price tag. Design is really good and shines over its rivals although it has no clear competitor being a diesel fed.(Carens=MPV, Xwind, Advie and even Innova are AUVs). Its 0.32 drag coefficient (Innova 0.35) paired with torque-y engine can be felt when overtaking and climbing. Aside from this, engine and technology are shared by Kia and Hyundai, just like a Ford-Mazda tandem.

Except for the price, the only drawback for the Carens is the low ground clearance, very crucial during FLOODING season. With this, the next real MPV on my list would be an Avanza G.