Cornering

[Carrie Tella]

Good morning. It was said that you avoid braking while cornering. Why? Recently, I found an advice which says that it is better to brake while cornering. Which is the better advice?
Thanks.
:tumbleweed:

[mbeige]

What kind of car? A FWD car can brake while cornering and have no problems, while a RWD car might spin out if it brakes while cornering. Some RWD cars even have lift off oversteer, done by just letting off the accelerator to induce oversteer.

[niky]

Where'd you find that advice? That guy should have his nuts chopped off and his license revoked. (oh, okay, revoking his license might be a little harsh).

It is always best to brake in a straight line. Braking while cornering can lead to lots of nasty situations:

1. Braking while the car is turning can lead to snap-oversteer (it'll spin). While this might help in an autocross, on the road, you want the car to maintain the same attitude. If your car is understeering (it's not turning through the turn), you can use the brakes to trim the line... but if you're understeering, that means you're driving too fast through the turn.

2. Turning under heavy braking can lead to one of two things:

a. On a non-ABS equipped car, the extra angle of the front wheels can lead to reduced braking efficiency, heavy understeer, and a very long stop (you'll stop when you've hit whatever it is you were trying to avoid.

b. On an ABS-equipped car, it is possible to spin out or run off the road... See... when you're in an emergency, you panic... you hit the brakes, you steer. The brakes lock, so steering does nothing, you steer more... then the ABS kicks in... suddenly, the car shoots off in the direction you're steering to... but since you've added more steering, you veer off sharply to the side and possibly off the road.

Newer ABS algorithms may prevent such catastrophes, but you shouldn't rely on them... You should always... always brake first, then turn. While it's perfectly safe to brake lightly into a turn on a dry road... any amount of braking in a turn on a wet or dusty road is dangerous.

[niky]

BTW: any car can oversteer on lift-off or in braking into a corner... I've done it myself... and I've seen quite a few people spin on their first trip to the Batangas Race Circuit because they didn't know enough to not trailbrake on those bends.

It's just that on cheap, original equipment tires, most modern cars tend to understeer more.

[drey]

Yup, not unless if your car is equipped with ABS, EBS, TCS etc. The tendency to oversteer would be lessened. But take note, you can't bend the law of physics. So it is better to brake in a straight line before entering a curve. This is what racer's do... But I am exempted in computer games. :lol:

[ghosthunter]

You can practice your cornering with safety in the latest driving games. They can simulate the driving physics pretty accurately. Just get a car model as close to the one you normally drive.

[ghosthunter]

Good morning. It was said that you avoid braking while cornering. Why? Recently, I found an advice which says that it is better to brake while cornering. Which is the better advice?
Thanks.

If entering the corner at high speed, you brake while cornering, you have two possible scenarios:

1. you can possibly loose control of your car since it will understeer. You will skid off the road, hit the tree beside the road and then you die.

2. you can possibly loose control of your car since it will oversteer. You will skid off the road backwards, hit the tree beside the road and then you die.

So, in that light, it is best to brake BEFORE the corner. Even with all the electronic aids like anti-lock brakes, electronic stability control, electronic traction control, etc cannot out-perform a driver who will take proper precaution when entering a corner.

Also when going through a corner, it is advisable to be as smooth with your steering and throttle inputs to maintain the car's balance through the curve.

[Horsepower]

I don't know if this is right but I normally brake upon approach of the curve and step on the gas moderately inside the bend then flat out when i get to the straight...

[niky]

Tama naman.

Brake on the approach, only initiate turning once the weight has shifted and the car is already slowing down...

Step on the gas at the apex or just after, then floor it once straightened out on the exit.

On the racetrack, as you get more comfortable with the turns and your car, you can start to brake later, experiment with trimming your line with the brakes, experiment with getting on the gas a bit earlier, correcting oversteer with gas (FWD) or correcting understeer or inducing a drift with the gas (RWD)... or experiment initiating a neutral four wheel drift with some trail-braking to overcome understeer (any kind of car).

But it's not something you should play with on the road if there's a possibility of killing someone besides yourself...

[170kphlang]

normally ginagawa ko ay release sa gas pedal para bumaba yung momentum then bago magapproach ay downshift nalang, pero i could be wrong hehe...

[safeorigin]

+1 to message above. make sure you have your insurance signed, last will written, your girl scored, etc if you're planning to do it on public road. make sure you limit the casualties to yourself if you do.

[mbeige]

Be really careful when flooring it mid-turn when the road is wet. I did this one time and my car downshifted to the next lower gear, the rear wheels spun, and the tail flipped out. Good thing the car had good balance and I countersteered as I exited the turn.

So there came a time when it was once again rainy, late at night and nobody was around. The left arrow was green and I had good momentum. Needless to say it was probably weird to see a diesel drifting in the rain making a corner. Buti walang pulis

[DacoTyan]

Good morning. It was said that you avoid braking while cornering. Why? Recently, I found an advice which says that it is better to brake while cornering. Which is the better advice?
Thanks.
:tumbleweed:

Will you be racing?

If so, consider this: I read an article few years back about two drivers belonging to the same Indy-CART team. Now on one particular track they had practice lap times were pretty close but telemetry showed they were driving very differently. One was had his braking done before entering a turn the other trail-braked.

But both had the same lap times.

[Carrie Tella]

[SIZE=4]Hey, thanks guys.[/SIZE] What a way to die! I'm sorry I wasn't able to re-reply immediately. Anyway, the car was FWD and it understeers. It's tiring to drive especially without power steering. The advice actually included left foot braking. Heh, heh. How about that? :question:

I have another query by the way, which concerns the clutch pedal. Do you step on it as an alternative to braking? I used to do that to decelerate at a lesser rate before cornering, driving an RWD. It worked for me ... but does it really?

[KBR]

[SIZE=4]Hey, thanks guys.[/SIZE] What a way to die! I'm sorry I wasn't able to re-reply immediately. Anyway, the car was FWD and it understeers. It's tiring to drive especially without power steering. The advice actually included left foot braking. Heh, heh. How about that? :question:

hey bro, well most FWD cars are really prone to Understeer specially in hard cornering. but there are some FWD cars that has a very neutral handling and can Understeer or even Oversteer at a given rate of speed. and also, about Left Foot braking, well you can also do that but only if you are going to a corner really, really fast (on both Entry and Exit cornering). but if your just cornering on a very slow-moderate speed, then you dont even need to do the Left Foot braking technique. plus, you'll just waste your brakes.

I have another query by the way, which concerns the clutch pedal. Do you step on it as an alternative to braking? I used to do that to decelerate at a lesser rate before cornering, driving an RWD. It worked for me ... but does it really?

well, about that. I dont think that releasing the Clutch (or stepping on the Clutch) can be an alternative for braking. maybe it works for regular daily driving (wether if the car is FWD or RWD). but for racing I'd keep the Clutch engaged all the time (and it dont matter how fast Im going or which gear I am at.. and again, it dont matter if its a FWD, AWD or RWD.) coz for me, keeping my Clutch engaged can help me on both Braking and Cornering (it helps you maintain faster Entry and Exit speeds too, which translates to faster lap times on the Circuit.) and the car is more predictable and controllable if you have your Clutch engaged during cornering.

anywayz, IMO and based on my experiences, the best, safest & probably one of the fastest way to enter and exit a corner is to:

-maintain the best possible (and safest possible) Speed upon entry & exit.
-maintain the best possible line through the Apex.
-be neutral on Braking (do not Trail or Late Brake too much)
-initiate the best possible Weight Transfer. (do not over speed and/or brake upon corner entry)
-Rev Matching. (always match your revs, use the Heel & Toe technique)
-Throttle Modulation. (and this will matter wether if your car is a FWD, AWD, or RWD) maintain the best possible Throttle Position during cornering.
-Steering Modulation. (maintain the best possible Steering position and angle during cornering.)



aite, peace.

[Type 100]

Nabanggit na ni Auto_Xer yung trail braking.

While theoretically braking in a straight line is ideal, there will be situations where you will need to apply at least partial braking force while initiating the turn. From what I've observed though, such trail-braking or mid-corner braking done by drivers is characterized by a steady decrease in pedal pressure. In other words, any mid-corner braking should not be done suddenly or abruptly.

Just sharing what I've observed Whatever you do the key is to stay SMOOTH with all your inputs---steering, braking, throttle.