PowerShift Transmission: Needs Replacing < 25,000km

[niky]

**UPDATE DEC. 8**

-After my lack of success getting FGP to reply to my emails since October, my wife was finally able to contact them by phone about a week ago. She met with FGP at the casa on Wednesday (I was unfortunately at work)

-FGP said they are willing to share in the costs of replacing the transmission. As I stated in the original post, our feedback from Casa (who had called FGP in October to ask for the price of the transmission for this) was about P370k.

-FGP sent a proposal later in the week stating that the "official" cost of the transmission is P667,000. But they will give us a "special discount" and charge us only P363,000 for the part.

From our perspective, it looks like what they've done is to almost double the already crazy expensive price for the transmission from P370k to P667,000; then created an artificial discount by cutting it back to P363,000. I'm sure though that they have some internal document to support that price, ridiculous as it is.

Dealing with FGP has been extremely disappointing, frustrating, and expensive. I pulled the car out of the casa and have been looking for a transmission elsewhere as the prices from Ford are crazy and unaffordable. The only thing we've gained by dealing with Ford is a general diagnosis that the transmission is faulty and needs replacing. Just what exactly is wrong with it is a mystery. It cost us close to P22,000 and leaving the car 3 months with Ford to just find this out.

Unfortunately, Ford Focus parts aren't easy to find. The diesel DCT/powershift transmission seems particularly difficult (as there haven't been too many of these on the road), and I haven't been able to source one. Outside mechanics I've spoken to have no experience with the internals of the transmission, and are not confident they can do anything about this short of changing the entire assembly.

For those thinking of buying a Ford powershift/dual clutch transmission, you might want to consider that:

1. My transmission malfunctions do not seem to be isolated. Try googling to see all the complaints in other markets (like many Ford cars, the local Focus is a global model)
2. If something in your ford powershift transmission does go bad, it's a sealed unit and chances are that you will have to replace the whole thing and the Ford people themselves may not be able to tell you exactly what's wrong with it.
3. If you have to replace the whole thing, you can either: go to casa (bring P667,000, but maybe they'll give you a discount so you'll pay less than P400k); or source the transmission and have it fixed elsewhere
4. There aren't too many Ford powershift cars around. The powershift transmission itself is a relatively new technology. This means that not only is the transmission itself difficult to source, but mechanics don't have much experience in fixing it.

Do you have the previous repair quote in writing?

Time to take it to the DTI. That they quoted two vastly differing prices is already a red flag and should help your case.

600k pesos for a new transmission is bull. That's nearly equivalent to the brand-new price of a Powershift-equipped vehicle.

Who at FGP sent you that letter? Are you sure it was FGP and not the dealership per se?

[butterpear]

Hi Niky,

Unfortunately I don't have the first figure of P370k in writing. This figure came out when I met with the service technician and mechanic at the casa in October. The mechanic said it looked like the transmission needed to be replaced, and so he had called up FGP to ask for the price- and they gave P370k. There was no reason for the mechanic to make up a price at that point- if anything, the motivation would have been to give a higher than actual cost para may patong sila.

The proposal stating P667k for a new transmission came from FGP (ford customer service division) in an email just a few days ago, so I do have that in writing.

Sadly, I think that FGP is squeezing the casa for FGP's own shortcomings and I don't want the casa to get into trouble as I think they've tried to be helpful but their hands are tied. The source for the original P370k price came from whoever in FGP the Casa mechanic called for the price in our October meeting. I got a call a few days ago from the Casa, saying that the P370k given during our October meeting was just an "estimate"- my sense is FGP wasn't happy with them about this.

In post #22, I mentioned that FGP claims that the transmission fluid should have been changed at the earlier of 2 years or 60,000km. My wife told me that when she was at Casa, the FGP rep scolded the casa for telling us that the interval was higher, and produced a paper showing that it should indeed be changed every 2 years (at P2,800/liter, and the car needs 6 litres. By the way, there are supposedly no acceptable substitutes for this very special fluid). As I've now pulled out the car I was able to check the owner's manual about the interval for transmission fluid change: it's every 125,000km (not 60,000km) - with no time-based interval (instead of the 2 years claimed by FGP- out to at least 8 years which is the last period shown in the maintenance schedule). So I don't know where FGP gets these maintenance intervals, or why they are different from the documentation they give car owners.

[butterpear]

I think you shouldn't settle for the quoted P363K tranny replacement price. As I mentioned before, it can be claimed as a product defect resulting in the early failure of the tranny. Although your car might be out of warranty, parts like the tranny should last the life of the car. Your car with only 25,000km on the odometer should not experience such a failure. FORD should honor the "goodwill warranty" claim on the Focus and replace the tranny with either no charge or minimal charge to the owner of the car. Minimal would be around P100K (more or less).

P373K is still way too much to pay for fixing something that can be seen as a factory defect resulting in early tranny failure.

Hi Ghosthunter-

Yes I agree, I will definitely not agree to the P363k replacement price. The price alone is ridiculous, plus with the history of the changing quotations for this and a supposed discount just leaves a bad taste. I haven't yet decided how much to pursue this with FGP. I feel that they haven't been ethical, responsive, or transparent and the aggravation of having to deal with them on top of my car troubles may not be worth it. On the other hand the way they treat their customers is so appalling that I also feel that I shouldn't just let it go.

[ghosthunter]

Hi Ghosthunter-

Yes I agree, I will definitely not agree to the P363k replacement price. The price alone is ridiculous, plus with the history of the changing quotations for this and a supposed discount just leaves a bad taste. I haven't yet decided how much to pursue this with FGP. I feel that they haven't been ethical, responsive, or transparent and the aggravation of having to deal with them on top of my car troubles may not be worth it. On the other hand the way they treat their customers is so appalling that I also feel that I shouldn't just let it go.

I would think in whatever future communication you will have with them, I think it would be best to mention dates/times/names of your past communications with them, may it be through letters or phone calls, etc. Let them know that you are dead serious in getting this issue done the way it should be done and not just be handled like sweeping it under the proverbial rug.

Although I personally hate threats, it might come down to that... threats to have the story of the Focus dual-clutch tranny issue and the way FGP handled it forwarded to the main-stream media/press and potential publication for print and online distribution. I think light hints like "advise from your lawyer" and such might be enough to get their attention but it should only be used as part of last resort measures.

From how I read your update, I think you haven't gone into legal advise. I do strongly advise you to get legal help on this, especially if you have a friend in one of the bigger law houses. Have their law firm's name on top of your letters to FGP may more than just liven up the responses so far given by FGP to you...., especially since we are talking about hundreds of thousands of pesos involved.

[yebo]

ulanin kaya ng email yan? anyone here willing to help butterpear? TS, post mo email address ng FGP at i-email campaign na yan.

[ghosthunter]

Hi Niky,

Unfortunately I don't have the first figure of P370k in writing. This figure came out when I met with the service technician and mechanic at the casa in October. The mechanic said it looked like the transmission needed to be replaced, and so he had called up FGP to ask for the price- and they gave P370k. There was no reason for the mechanic to make up a price at that point- if anything, the motivation would have been to give a higher than actual cost para may patong sila.

The proposal stating P667k for a new transmission came from FGP (ford customer service division) in an email just a few days ago, so I do have that in writing.

Sadly, I think that FGP is squeezing the casa for FGP's own shortcomings and I don't want the casa to get into trouble as I think they've tried to be helpful but their hands are tied. The source for the original P370k price came from whoever in FGP the Casa mechanic called for the price in our October meeting. I got a call a few days ago from the Casa, saying that the P370k given during our October meeting was just an "estimate"- my sense is FGP wasn't happy with them about this.

In post #22, I mentioned that FGP claims that the transmission fluid should have been changed at the earlier of 2 years or 60,000km. My wife told me that when she was at Casa, the FGP rep scolded the casa for telling us that the interval was higher, and produced a paper showing that it should indeed be changed every 2 years (at P2,800/liter, and the car needs 6 litres. By the way, there are supposedly no acceptable substitutes for this very special fluid). As I've now pulled out the car I was able to check the owner's manual about the interval for transmission fluid change: it's every 125,000km (not 60,000km) - with no time-based interval (instead of the 2 years claimed by FGP- out to at least 8 years which is the last period shown in the maintenance schedule). So I don't know where FGP gets these maintenance intervals, or why they are different from the documentation they give car owners.

At this time, I suggest to have everything in writing and documented and signed by someone from Ford.... name (department), date and time. This will help stop the merry-go-round finger pointing.

[renzo_d10]

Why not just sell the car and buy a different one?

Or trade it in perhaps?

[ghosthunter]

ulanin kaya ng email yan? anyone here willing to help butterpear? TS, post mo email address ng FGP at i-email campaign na yan.

Mail-bombing will not help this issue. Its matter of executive decisions where this will lead. They have to be convinced that doing the replacement (at an acceptable cost to the owner) is less costly than the alternative,...

[ghosthunter]

Why not just sell the car and buy a different one?

Or trade it in perhaps?

Selling the car now will only get a small value because of the problem with the tranny. Getting it fixed then selling it would be the better choice.

[mitzusu4DJ1]

Pang mayaman pala ang TDCi merry christmas......

[butterpear]

Thank you Yebo,Ghosthunter, Niky, Renzo for all the suggestions and offers. The way things are going yes I'll keep track of all correspondence. I've spoken casually to some lawyers about this and am considering other options. Merry christmas Mitzusu hope yours is less expensive than mine!

[duramax_994]

http://www.philstar.com/motoring/201...s-worst-dealer

*butterpear sir, for sure this will be an uphill battle. Play your cards right at makukuha mo rin ang dapat sa yo in the end. I guess you're in the right direction..

Good luck sir.

*Naalala ko tuloy si Dr Paul Chua and the Protest Against Isuzu Trooper (PAIT) crusade which resulted in the nationwide recall of Trooper 4JX1 injectors.

[victorevolution]

it's a second hand car without the complete service manual.

first things, first. punta ka sa pinagbilhan mo, ask for his service manual to see if ford is talking the truth- if ford was speaking the truth sorry but you just void the warranty of the car. LEGAL REASON- YOU JUST STEP INTO THE SHOES OF THE FORMER OWNER WHAT RIGHTS HE MAY HAVE HAD OR LOST WILL REDOUND TO YOUR BENEFIT OR LOST.

if ford was just making up stories(complete naman talaga and maintianed naman ng casa from the very beggining), then you sir do have a consumers right then then only try to speak to a lawyer.(my guess you wouldnt need a lawyer go to dti then dti would try to set a compromise if not then dti would reccomend it to doj or pao to help you with legal needs)

dont waste your time, charge it to experience sa huli baka 50,000 or kung swerte ka 100,000 moral damages makuha mo plus actual damages kaso, i bet you it will cost you 500-600 k for that law suit. why- acceptance fee, retainer's fee, pleading fee, apperance fee etc. etc. (sa lawyer pa lang yan) sa court- filing fee, docket fee, appleate fee etc. etc. pati stenographers note fee.

AGAIN FIRST THINGS FIRST CONTACT THE FIRST REAL OWNER AND CHECK IF THE CAR WAS MAINTAINED BY THE CASA REGULARLY DURING THE SCHEDULED PMS IF NOT DONT WASTE YOUR ENERGY.

[butterpear]

A quick update: FGP called- the car will be re-evaluated, and the costs of any parts needed will be shouldered by them. As you can guess from my previous posts I’m surprised to say this- but they have been giving us excellent customer service since that call. Apart from paying for the parts they’ve been coordinating with us and the casa. While the exact problem still has to be found and a fix made, I’m hopeful this is the beginning of the end of our car troubles. Thanks to all who posted their support and suggestions.

[ghosthunter]

A quick update: FGP called- the car will be re-evaluated, and the costs of any parts needed will be shouldered by them. As you can guess from my previous posts I’m surprised to say this- but they have been giving us excellent customer service since that call. Apart from paying for the parts they’ve been coordinating with us and the casa. While the exact problem still has to be found and a fix made, I’m hopeful this is the beginning of the end of our car troubles. Thanks to all who posted their support and suggestions.

No doubt the article published and re-posted in the internet/facebook had a lot to do with the sudden change of heart.

[d'flash]

butterfear, is this your first car? or is this your first A/T car?

[A-OK]

Nope. Regular 4-speed AT.

Question lang po: Isn't it 6-speed ang powershift dual clutch trans?

[niky]

Question lang po: Isn't it 6-speed ang powershift dual clutch trans?

The person who asked the question has the Focus 1.8. That has a four speed automatic.

All current Focuses now use the 6-speed powershift dual clutch, but if I recall right, the gasoline variants all use the dry clutch system as used in the Fiesta. That one has a clutch pack replacement kit. Supposed to be 30k, but that's not bad considering it's a dual system, not a single clutch.

The wet-type used in the TDCi is designed to be lifetime and maintenance free. Even in Europe, they don't sell replacement parts for it yet.

[victorevolution]

A quick update: FGP called- the car will be re-evaluated, and the costs of any parts needed will be shouldered by them. As you can guess from my previous posts I’m surprised to say this- but they have been giving us excellent customer service since that call. Apart from paying for the parts they’ve been coordinating with us and the casa. While the exact problem still has to be found and a fix made, I’m hopeful this is the beginning of the end of our car troubles. Thanks to all who posted their support and suggestions.

WOW! im happy for you, merry CHRISTmas!!!

[A-OK]

The person who asked the question has the Focus 1.8. That has a four speed automatic.

Hi Niky. Just wondering if this particular Focus 1.8L 4-speed AT is powershift & dual clutch. The thread title indicates powershift. From what I know powershift is 6-speed dual clutch trans. I might be wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

The person who asked the question has the Focus 1.8. That has a four speed automatic.

Hi Niky. Just wondering if this particular Focus 1.8L 4-speed AT is powershift & dual clutch. The thread title indicates powershift. From what I know powershift is 6-speed dual clutch trans. I might be wrong.