DRY CLUTCH DCT's ARE ON THEIR WAY OUT, SAYS GETRAG CTO

**Regz_ph26** · July 16th, 2014 08:22 AM

Interesting Q&A's from this article:

Source > Dry Clutch DCTs Are on Their Way Out, says Getrag CTO | DrivelineNEWS.com

Why did you go for a wet clutch design when dry clutch is supposed to be cheaper and more fuel efficient?
That’s a very good question and we have spent a lot of time discussing it. At the end of the day, we have to have an effective product portfolio in terms of cost. With a dry clutch you cannot cover everything from 100 Nm to 500; in any case, if you want to be very sporty and have very high performance, you have to have a wet clutch. And at the opposite end of the scale, with very small engines we are beginning to recognize that many of them are coupled with quite heavy vehicles and that the thermal constraints on these small vehicles are sometimes greater than on a C or D-segment car.

Does this mean dry clutch DCTs are finished?
I cannot speak for our competitors, but our new generation of DCTs at Getrag will be 100 percent wet clutch. However, our current [dry clutch] 6DCT250 is one of the very best for fuel efficiency and it will stay on the market for another six to eight years.

***I also checked in Gertrag website and their latest transmission is a wet clutch. Here's a comparison between the new transmission with wet clutch vs. the old one with dry clutch used in Ford Fiesta and Focus.

Link > PowerShift | GETRAG
(Website is in German. Use Google Chrome to translate page to English)

6DCT150 - Newest Tranny

Key Features
Max speed 7000 min-1
Max torque 170 Nm
Weight (dry) ~ 57 Kg (dry, without DMF / attenuator)
Installation length 350-355 mm
Wheelbase input shaft - differential 170 mm or higher
Overall ratio 1st gear 13 to 18.5
Ratio spread 4.5 to 8.0
Actuators electromechanical gear actuator
electro-hydraulic clutch actuation
Oil 3.5 liter, fill fo life
Double clutch nested double wet clutch
Others 3-shaft design
all-wheel-application possible
aktuierte Mechanical parking brake, electrically aktuierte parking lock as an option

6DCT250 - FORD Focus/Fiesta Trannies

Key Features
Max torque 240-280 Nm
Weight (dry) 71-75 kg (without DMF / attenuator)
Installation length 350-400 mm
Wheelbase drive differential run 183-197 mm
Oil content 1.7 to 1.9 l
Translation 1st gear 15 - 20.4
Translation 6th gear 2.1 to 4
Spread 5.6 to 7.2
Control unit Integrated (only one plug connection to vehicle)
Parking lock Operated and mechanically interlocked
Circuit Electro-mechanical actuation of the dry double clutch and the switching system

**Regz_ph26** · July 16th, 2014 08:47 AM

here's more....

Ford Fiesta to Use Dry DCT, while Focus Will Have Planetary Auto | DrivelineNEWS.com

“This (6DCT150) transmission is aimed at Asia, where in many markets the power-to-weight ratio of vehicles is often low, and overloading is also common,” DeVincent said. “A dry clutch solution would not be appropriate where overloading is concerned.”

**17Sphynx17** · July 16th, 2014 08:50 AM

I am still curious with it. I wonder why Ford is still pursuing the DCT angle for their approach when the shuddering issue is present because of weak low end torque.

I am not sure about the new Fiesta's but the Ecoboost engines appear to eliminate this problem.

So if you are on a non-ecoboost engine model, wouldn't it be more sensible for Ford to actually just give you a CVT instead? Or revamp their line up with a CVT?

I am just wondering about it since I've tried both and CVTs don't have the shuddering unless you have a flywheel issue (City CVT issue), or if you are using below the required RON at uphill climbs (noticed in the Sylphy 1.6 CVT using 91 RON, recommended is 95 RON).

**ray_noel** · July 16th, 2014 10:37 AM

I agree with sphynx but lets give the benefit of the doubt for ford on why they continue the DCT platform for their cars...

Leaning now to M/T in Ti-VCT instead of A/T...

**ray_noel** · July 16th, 2014 10:39 AM

I agree with sphynx but lets give the benefit of the doubt for ford on why they continue the DCT platform for their cars...

Leaning now to M/T in Ti-VCT instead of A/T...

**17Sphynx17** · July 16th, 2014 11:08 AM

Don't get me wrong, I get the logic behind the DCT though and I really love in the open road/highway. I do think from a performance standpoint, the DCG kind of performs better than a CVT there as you dont get the constant "engine drone" note as CVTs hold the ideal rpm for your desired acceleration and just manipulate the gears in the transmission (hence the CVT monicker).

But in our traffic conditions where it is mostly city, the DCG suffers greatly and the CVT is a good compromise as the middle ground.

I don't know about the Skyactiv transmission where it is on 70% lock (if I am correct in the product brief) which is stated to be a regular transmission that places it between a DCG and CVT (or was it a CVT and regular transmission).

The Sylphy CVT supposedly is a 50% lock. Lock means the clutch is engaged if I recall correctly.

So these are the workarounds (alternative transmission types) I think at least are do-able and workable for our actual traffic conditions. Even the Altis has shifted to a CVT and looks to be an accepted approach by the Japanese.

So from the Japanese,we have Toyota, Mitsu, Subaru, Nissan and Honda with the CVTs from the regular AT.

If Ford really is insisting the DCG angle, they should either use it with diesel engines or Ecoboost only/performance models. At least that eliminates their issues with it mostly.

**coolhyperion** · July 17th, 2014 03:58 AM

The next generation DCT and would be successor to the 6DCT250 is the wet clutch 7DCT300, not the 6DCT150 (which is for entry level cars) even though they belong to the same family and share a lot of parts and technology. The new DCT tranny promises lower weight, smoother idling and creep functions, better response, and optional cooling module in addition to obviously having an additional gear.

http://www.getrag.com/media/products...on_7DCT300.pdf

**Egan101** · July 17th, 2014 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by 17Sphynx17

I am not sure about the new Fiesta's but the Ecoboost engines appear to eliminate this problem.

I am really hoping that the Fiesta Ecoboost models have already outgrown the previous DCT issues of its NA counterparts. Despite all this negativity regarding Ford's DCT, I am quite impressed with the Fiesta Ecoboost and really considering getting one.

**Regz_ph26** · August 6th, 2014 08:52 AM

Re-posting from another thread to spread the news! Hope we get the same treatment here in Asia! :D

2011+ Ford Focus & Fiesta NEW Clutch Warranty & TSB Fix! - YouTube

**eljo3025** · February 18th, 2018 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by Regz_ph26

Re-posting from another thread to spread the news! Hope we get the same treatment here in Asia! :D

2011+ Ford Focus & Fiesta NEW Clutch Warranty & TSB Fix! - YouTube

Ford replaced the TCM for free because the car was shuddering and not able to reverse. After 1 month same thing happens. Then Ford is now charging 14500 for labor for pull down transmission. And when they opened the transmission they are charging 76500 for 2 shift forks and release bearings. They showed the transmission where the insides were full of rust. They said it is caused sa paglusong sa baha. To think that they were advertising the Ecosport having 550mm wading height. I answered if it's baha why then other components are not affected by floodwaters. Then they said that it might be to tilamsik of rainwater. To think that the Dry type DCT250 should be sealed for 10 years and Ford in other countries has extended the warranty for transmission for 7 years. Here its a robbery.