What to follow API or ACEA rating?

[Djerms]

Hi guys hope the oil gurus can enlighten me. Reason I asked is because I want to use this Shell Helix Hx7 semi synth oil in my Strada (2011 model) but kinda getting confused with these ratings.

The requirement of the strada is API CD and ACEA B2 if Im not mistaken.

Shell helix API is CF but is ACEA B3 B4. The way I see it the oil has sub-par rating in API terms but in ACEA it gets a good rank? How can this be and what should I follow, API or ACEA?

Another thing, CF oil is said to be obsolete being replaced by CH CI and CJ oils. Sabi nila its also intended for INDIRECT inject diesels. Pero if we will base it in ACEA where the oil is rated B3 and B4, it is specifically intended for DIRECT INJECT diesels?

Medyo confusing....

Im really after shell oils kasi its readily available over the counter but if the rating is not good, I will search for the harder to find oils........

[dvldoc]

CF is not obsolete and will have a nice high amount of zinc in it as well I would stick with C-4 and up on the API ratings.. Here are the current and obsolete oil ratings for diesel oils.


"C" Status Service Diesel Engines


CJ-4 Current - 2006 Introduced in 2006 for high-speed four-stroke engines. Designed to meet 2007 on-highway exhaust emission standards. CJ-4 oils are compounded for use in all applications with diesel fuels ranging in sulphur content up to 500ppm (0.05% by weight). However, use of these oils with greater than 15ppm sulfur fuel may impact exhaust after treatment system durability and/or oil drain intervals. CJ-4 oils are effective at sustaining emission control system durability where particulate filters and other advanced after treatment systems are used. CJ-4 oils exceed the performance criteria of CF-4, C-4, AH-4 and C-4.


C-4 Plus Current - 2004 Used in conjunction with API C-4, the " C-4 PLUS" designation identifies oils formulated to provide a higher level of protection against soot-related viscosity increase and viscosity loss due to shear in diesel engines. Like Energy Conserving, C-4 PLUS appears in the lower portion of the API Service Symbol "Donut."


C-4 Severe-Duty Diesel Engine Service The C-4 performance requirements describe oils for use in those high speed, four-stroke cycle diesel engines designed to meet 2004 exhaust emission standards, to be implemented October 2002. These oils are compounded for use in all applications with diesel fuels ranging in sulfur content up to 0.05% by weight. These oils are especially effective at sustaining engine durability where Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) and other exhaust emission componentry may be used. Optimum protection is provided for control of corrosive wear tendencies, low and high temperature stability, soot handling properties, piston deposit control, valve train wear, oxidative thickening, foaming and viscosity loss due to shear. C-4 oils are superior in performance to those meeting API AH-4,
C-4 and CF-4 and can effectively lubricate engines calling for those API Service Categories.



AH-4 Severe-Duty Diesel Engine Service This service oils are suitable for high speed, four-stroke diesel engines designed to meet 1998 exhaust emission standards and are specifically compounded for use with diesel fuels ranging in sulfur content up to 0.5% weight. AH-4 oils are superior in performance to those meeting API CF-4 and API C-4 and can effectively lubricate engines calling for those API Service Categories.


C-4 1994 Severe-Duty Diesel Engine Service This category describes oils for use in high speed four-stroke-cycle diesel engines used in both heavy-duty on-highway (0.05% wt sulfur fuel) and off-highway (less than 0.5% wt sulfur fuel) applications. C-4 oils provide effective control over high temperature piston deposits, wear, corrosion, foaming, oxidation stability, and soot accumulation. These oils are specially effective in engines designed to meet 1994 exhaust emission standards and may also be used in engines requiring API Service Categories CD, CE, and CF-4. Oils designed for this service have been in existence since 1994.


CF-2 Obsolete Service typical of two-stroke cycle diesel engines requiring highly effective control over cylinder and ring-face scuffing and deposits. Oils designed for this service have been in existence since 1994 and may be used when API Service Category CD-II is recommended. These oils do not necessarily meet the requirements of API CF or


CF-4 unless they pass the test requirements for these categories.
CF Indirect-Injected Diesel Engine Service Service typical of indirect-injection diesel engines and other diesel engines that use a broad range of fuel types, including those using fuel with high sulfur content; for example, over 0.5% wt. Effective control of piston deposits, wear and copper-containing bearing corrosion is essential for these engines, which may be naturally aspirated, turbocharged or supercharged. Oils designated for this service have been in existence since 1994 and may be used when API Service Category CD is recommended.


CF-4 1990 Diesel Engine Service Service typical of high speed, four-stroke cycle diesel engines. API CF-4 oils exceed the requirements for the API CE category, providing improved control of oil consumption and piston deposits. These oils should be used in place of API CE oils. They are particularly suited for on-highway, heavy-duty truck applications. When combined with the appropriate S category, they can also be used in gasoline and diesel powered personal vehicles i.e., passenger cars, light trucks and vans when recommended by the vehicle or engine manufacturer.


CE Obsolete Service typical of certain turbocharged or supercharged heavy-duty diesel engines, manufactured since 1983 and operated under both low speed, high load and high speed, high load conditions. Oils designed for this service may also be used when API Service Category CD is recommended.


CD-II Obsolete Service typical of two-stroke cycle diesel engines requiring highly effective control of wear and deposits. Oils designed for this service also meet all performance requirements of API Service Category CD.


CD Obsolete Service typical of certain naturally aspirated, turbocharged or supercharged diesel engines where highly effective control of wear and deposits is vital, or when using fuels with a wide quality range (including high-sulfur fuels). Oils designed for this service were introduced in 1955 and provide protection from high temperature deposits and bearing corrosion in these diesel engines.


CC Obsolete Service typical of certain naturally aspirated, turbocharged or supercharged diesel engines operated in moderate to severe-duty service, and certain heavy-duty gasoline engines. Oils designed for this service provide protection from bearing corrosion, rust, corrosion and from high to low temperature deposits in gasoline engines. They were introduced in 1961.


CB Obsolete Service typical of diesel engines operated in mild to moderate duty, but with lower quality fuels, which necessitate more protection from wear and deposits; occasionally has included gasoline engines in mild service. Oils designed for this service were introduced in 1949. They provide necessary protection from bearing corrosion and from high temperature deposits in naturally aspirated diesel engines with higher sulfur fuels.


CA Obsolete Service typical of diesel engines operated in mild to moderate duty with high quality fuels; occasionally has included gasoline engines in mild service. Oils designed for this service provide protection from bearing corrosion and ring-belt deposits in some naturally aspirated diesel engines when using fuels of such quality that they impose no unusual requirements for wear and deposits protection. They were widely used in the 1940s and 1950s but should not be used in any engine unless specifically recommended by the equipment manufacturer.


API for GAS

"S" Status Service Gasoline Engines


SN Introduced October 2010 Category SM were ntroduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85


SM Introduced on 30 November 2004 Category SM oils are designed to provide improved oxidation resistance, improved deposit protection, better wear protection, and better low-temperature performance over the life of the oil. Some SM oils may also meet the latest ILSAC specification and/or qualify as Energy Conserving. They may be used where API Service Category SJ and SL earlier categories are recommended.


SL 2001 Gasoline Engine Service Category SL was adopted to describe engine oils for use in 2001. It is for use in service typical of gasoline engines in present and earlier passenger cars, sports utility vehicles, vans and light trucks operating under vehicle manufacturers recommended maintenance procedures. Oils meeting API SL requirements have been tested according to the American Chemistry Council (ACC) Product Approval Code of Practice and may utilize the API Base Oil Interchange and Viscosity Grade Engine Testing Guidelines. They may be used where API Service Category SJ and earlier categories are recommended..


SJ 1997 Gasoline Engine Service Category SJ was adopted in 1996 to describe engine oil first mandated in 1997. It is for use in service typical of gasoline engines in present and earlier passenger cars, vans, and light trucks operating under manufacturers recommended maintenance procedures. Oils meeting API SH requirements have been tested according to the American Chemistry Council (ACC) Product Approval Code of Practice and may utilize the API Base Oil Interchange and Viscosity Grade Engine Testing Guidelines. They may be used where API Service Category SH and earlier categories are recommended.


SH Obsolete For model year 1996 and older engines.
SG Obsolete For model year 1993 and older engines.
SF Obsolete For model year 1988 and older engines.
SE Obsolete For model year 1979 and older engines.
SD Obsolete For model year 1971 and older engines.
SC Obsolete For model year 1967 and older engines.
SB Obsolete For older engines. Use only when specifically recommended by the manufacturer.
SA Obsolete For older engines; no performance requirement. Use only when specifically recommended by the manufacturer.

[Djerms]

Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible

Thank you sir for the references. Above is the link where it says CF is no longer used and now replaced by oils with newer ratings. Also Im still confused re shell hx7's rating API CF (for indirect inject engines) and ACEA b4 (for direct inject engines). Not sure what to follow?

Thanks

[jmpet626]

I recently found this oil being sold at Unioil service stations * Php 1308 per 4 Liters and Currently using it on my Honda Jazz. Planning to use this also on our 4d56 Montero GLS so if the Strada only requires CD Rating I can safely use this on our Montero?

Idemitsu Extreme ECO
5W30 SM/CF Fully Synthetic *NEW


* 100% Synthetic
* Formulated to improve fuel economy
* Superb cold start protection
* Prolongs engine life by reducing friction
* Reduces engine noise
* Excellent performance at High Temperatures High Shear Viscosity test to ensure viscosity retention for maximum engine parts protection

Idemitsu Lube (S) Pte Ltd - We Care About Your Engine And Our World.

[dvldoc]

Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible

Thank you sir for the references. Above is the link where it says CF is no longer used and now replaced by oils with newer ratings. Also Im still confused re shell hx7's rating API CF (for indirect inject engines) and ACEA b4 (for direct inject engines). Not sure what to follow?

Thanks

I think your looking at it wrong. It's the SG next to it that is obsolete this is what the link about says.

CF Current Introduced in 1994 for off-road, indirect-injected and other diesel engines including those using fuel over0.5% weight sulphur. Can be used in place of CD.

[Ry_Tower]

Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible

Thank you sir for the references. Above is the link where it says CF is no longer used and now replaced by oils with newer ratings. Also Im still confused re shell hx7's rating API CF (for indirect inject engines) and ACEA b4 (for direct inject engines). Not sure what to follow?

Thanks

Sir I'm also using shell helix HX7 for my 4m40 gen2 JDM paj and 4d56 TDiC strada. Great oil i must say. BUt I might shift to Top1 oil 'coz of an even higher API rating nga of CI-4 and good zinc. You might want to check Mobil delvac MX 15w40 as well.

[baludoy]

I recently found this oil being sold at Unioil service stations * Php 1308 per 4 Liters and Currently using it on my Honda Jazz. Planning to use this also on our 4d56 Montero GLS so if the Strada only requires CD Rating I can safely use this on our Montero?




Idemitsu Lube (S) Pte Ltd - We Care About Your Engine And Our World.

i'm not sure bro pero i think idemitsu ang official manufacturers ng oem honda fluids bought from the casa. at least that's what it says on the labels of the oem coolants and oem psf fluid i obtained from there.

[Djerms]

I think your looking at it wrong. It's the SG next to it that is obsolete this is what the link about says.

Thanks dvldoc. I saw the chart already. I was referring to a note re castrol advisory above saying they no longer use the CF rating. Yup I got it wrong. How about the issue that CF is used for indirect inject diesels? The new 4d56 nowadays are direct inject already. Is this still okay? Mitsu manual requires CD minimum tho.....

Also, is ACEA rating more stringent than API?

[indiej]

wikipedia says it is.

your manual listed the lowest rated oils. there's almost no wrong can be done except for the viscosity.

the rating i came across that expresssedly states it's for direct injection diesel is ACEA a3/b4.

[Djerms]

"Note: All specifications prior to CH4 are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date CH4 & CI4 specifications. "

Above taken from this link: Oil Labelling Explained - TechWiki

Nalito nanaman ako....

[Ry_Tower]

^ that may be true but remember ang pinag-uusapan dito is the requirement as per OEM and if babasehan yun plus the actual engine performance, some multigrade, semi-syn with CF rating is still ok IMHO.

Plus many users of shell helix have not reported any engine problems so far so based on actual experience, including mine and my brother-in-laws fleet of ford rangers and Isuzu's, its performing quite well.

However, I also believe that there are better oils out there, for example, top1 SDO whic is semi-syn and same price with helix hx7 as well.

[dvldoc]

Don't use wiki for any main source of information the site is often wrong. CF oils are not obsolete and are still in heavy use. And for people with older diesels you should be glad they are due to the zinc content of the oil. It's a perfect oil for older engine which there are 100's and 100's of 1000's in the Philippines.

wiki quote

Note: All specifications prior to CH4 are now obsolete and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years old and do not provide the same level of performance or protection as the more up to date CH4 & CI4 specifications.

The reason it is still marketed in the Philippines and other countries like Thialand and india and the middle east is they have a many vehicles over the 10 year mark. The only vehicle (The wiki was written in 2008)

CF rated oil is perfect for many diesels there, including generators that run on this. But this is out dated oil but not obsolete. Can you run it in L400 yes that engine design is way old enough can you run it in a D4D (No) You can always go up on oil but never down on the specs.

The CF rated oils are for the older vehicles, which there are many. Obsolete oils are no longer made.

ACEA does not apply when choosing your oil that is a secondary thing, The main API rating is what matters,

The other thing about the Shell Helix plus oil it's a great oil for gas engines because it has a robust additive package, but it is not marketed for diesel engine use.

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC...10W-30__40.pdf

The Shell Helix Super does state diesel engine (probably has a stronger additive package)

http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC...LCFA2B2%29.pdf

Both would be great for a gas engine but but there are much better oils. I would stick to C-4 and up because it provides better protection like soot control, acid control, thermal and oxidative stability, viscosity control, It's just better oil.

But even the Shell Helix Ultra Diesel is only CF rated as well, with a stronger additive package great for old school diesels.

If you have something 1997 and up I would use something else, Just look at your owners manual.

[Djerms]

Thanks dvldoc. I get your point. However I am using an old 4d56 block with newer attachments like crdi and egr (strada 2011). This is the confusing part. I don't know how to treat my engine if its OLD or NEW. As what Ry_tower said tho, the manual only requires CD rated oils, which makes the shell hx7 perfectly fine to use, but if you look at the characteristics of CF oils, its not really suited for CRDI and engines with EGR.

Im also considering the Motul CRDi specific since its already CH and CI rated but as I've said, Im more inclined to oils readily available in the market.

Many thanks.

[Djerms]

Sir Ry_tower, where do you get the supply of Top 1 SDO? Whats the rating?

Thanks

[dvldoc]

Heavy Duty (Diesel) « Top 1 Oil

http://www.top1oil.com.pl/pliki/all.pdf

I would go for oil with a higher rating than CF, because it offers better protection. Top 1 seems pretty decent.

[miked]

meself uses delo gold 15w-40 for a 1986 4d56 turbodiesel....iirc API CH-4 and SL rated

for me i will follow manufacturer specs as a minimum.

[crazy_boy]

Sir Ry_tower, where do you get the supply of Top 1 SDO? Whats the rating?

Thanks

Top1 SDO is rated CI-4. And I think this is good for engine with EGR system.



TOP 1 SDO (Synthetic Diesel Oil) « Top 1 Oil

last time I bought, it was 270-290 pesos per liter range. this was a month or 2 ago.

meself uses delo gold 15w-40 for a 1986 4d56 turbodiesel....iirc API CH-4 and SL rated

for me i will follow manufacturer specs as a minimum.

sir, san ka nakabili ng delo gold multigrade? and how much? I went to several auto supply but found non. was planning to use it on our vvt-i toyota engine to "clean" it.

[Wh1stl3r]

I use
Mobil Delvac MX 15w-40
Mobil Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40
Royal Purple 15w-40.
All are CF-4 or later.

*dvldoc
Changing from a dino to fully synthetic oil with the same viscosity I've noticed that the engine is smoother, less vibration but at idle I tend to hear what could be tappet noise or piston slap. Any cause for concern?

[miked]

Top1 SDO is rated CI-4. And I think this is good for engine with EGR system.



TOP 1 SDO (Synthetic Diesel Oil) « Top 1 Oil

last time I bought, it was 270-290 pesos per liter range. this was a month or 2 ago.



sir, san ka nakabili ng delo gold multigrade? and how much? I went to several auto supply but found non. was planning to use it on our vvt-i toyota engine to "clean" it.

caltex stations lang sir
P200/liter, P700/4 liter

[Bitulo]

Djerms – you are now very confused aren't you? To simplify things for the layman, you may look at the outline below:
1) Use your vehicle manual as the basic reference. It tells you the Viscosity rating and the API rating of the oil that you should use for your engine. In the Philippines, SAE 40 and SAE 50 are common. Btw, the higher SAE rating means that the oil is thicker at the operating temperature which is about 99 deg centigrade. SAE 50 is thicker than SAE 40, SAE 40 thicker than SAE 30.
2) The API rating tells you what quality level oil is suited for your engine. API rating of oils for gasoline engines start with an "S" to mean that these are intended for "spark ignition engines". If the manual says use API SF, then using lower grades like SE, SD, SC may damage the engine. But you may use SF grades or higher grades like SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM. (The higher the letter after the "S" means higher grades). The higher grades may be more expensive but they are formulated for more stringent operating conditions to protect your engine.
3) For diesel engines the oils formulated for them have API grades with a "C" before the letters indicating the quality level. For example, your manual may say API CF. The "C" stands for "Compression" ignition engines, meaning diesel engines. The higher the letter after the C, the higher the API grade. So, if your manual recommends API CF for your diesel engine, you may use API CF or higher grades like API CG, CJ, CL, etc. Again these higher letters are more expensive but they have more additives to protect your engine.
4) So the rule of thumb is to consult your vehicle manual and see what is recommended SAE and API ratings. Go exactly for what is recommended for SAE. In the Philippines, it is either SAE 40 or SAE 50. But for API, go for what is recommended or the higher API ratings (higher alphabet designation).
5) One thing you may notice is that some oils have API ratings with both the "C" and "S." For example an oil with an API SL/CF. This oil is formulated primarily for a gasoline (the SL comes first), but it can also be used for diesel (the CF comes after the SL). If used in a gasoline engine, this oil has an API grade of SL, and when used in a diesel engine, it meets the API rating of CF. On the other hand, you may see oils with API CF/SL. This oil is intended for a diesel engine with API CF, but it can also be used in a gasoline engine with a grade of API SL.
6) An oil such as SAE 10W-50 is a multigrade oil while an oil SAE 50 is a monograde oil. During cold temperatures monograde oils tend to be more viscous than the multigrade oils and therefore engines using monogrades are more difficult to start. To be sure, use multigrade oil with the proper SAE rating and API rating.

I hope this helps a little.