Water/Alcohol injection Turbo Diesel use

[dvldoc]

It's not meant to be a fuel saving device on N/A gas vehicles, On turbo diesels that's a different story, That study was also done in 1980 on a 1979 car.

[nelany]

For me 4 liters consumption going to Tagaytay at normal driving is high. I think your pump is open at 5 psi boost. That is my previous setting on my FM and I have similar consumption. I set it at 8 psi for the pump to open and my consumption is really ok. I will still set it at 9 psi so it will open only at 120 kph on a long drive.

[light2light]

6: Water Injection

This technology actually has historic roots. During World War II, aircraft engineers needed a device to combat detonation -- premature ignition that could damage engine parts -- in piston-powered fighter aircraft. Their solution involved injecting a mixture of water and alcohol into the air intake, cooling the engine and helping maintain proper fuel ignition.

After the war, hot-rodders adopted water injection for their own high-performance engines. The technology showed up on a handful of successful race cars, but it has declined in use as advanced materials, engines and fuel technology reduced the risk of detonation.

Detonation, like misfiring, is not a problem most drivers of modern cars will ever experience. It typically only occurs in cases where a driver runs a highly modified engine (which often experiences much higher than normal internal pressure) on low-octane gasoline. In a normal vehicle driven under normal conditions, the scenario that invites detonation is highly unlikely. Water injection may be a useful tool for specific high-performance situations, but it's not a particularly useful or effective device for improving your daily driver's fuel mileage [source: RallyCars.com].

guys, this is not my opinion. water/alcohol inj is considered a hoax in the US(just like ALL fuel savers/engine enhancers). the EPA has wrongfully debunked ALL engine improvements except common rail, turbocharger, efi, direct injection, etc. w/c are now incorporated in modern engines. AFAIMC, kung inaakala niyo na advantageous ito sa mga rigs niyo, by all means, gamitin niyo. personally medyo madugo ito para sa katulad ko na limited ang knowledge sa auto mechanics. kung masaya kayo diyan sa mga accomplishment niyo, dapat ituloy niyo, ika nga, susuportahan ko kayo. tnx

[ghosthunter]

guys, this is not my opinion. water/alcohol inj is considered a hoax in the US(just like ALL fuel savers/engine enhancers). the EPA has wrongfully debunked ALL engine improvements except common rail, turbocharger, efi, direct injection, etc. w/c are now incorporated in modern engines. AFAIMC, kung inaakala niyo na advantageous ito sa mga rigs niyo, by all means, gamitin niyo. personally medyo madugo ito para sa katulad ko na limited ang knowledge sa auto mechanics. kung masaya kayo diyan sa mga accomplishment niyo, dapat ituloy niyo, ika nga, susuportahan ko kayo. tnx

You are entitled to your opinion.

Water/Alcohol injection is a proven way to safely increase the power output of a turbocharged diesel engine. This is dyno proven again and again with different vehicles equipped with doc's water/alcohol injection kits.

I have also used it in a performance tuned gasoline engine with small success in gaining more horsepower.

[light2light]

Quote: What's there to prove about alcohol injection? The EPA has actually stated that water injection systems allow for better economy, as they prevent detonation and can allow ultra-lean mixtures, but that this often comes at the expense of emissions. A standard alcohol injection kit does not save fuel without retuning, but that's not its purpose. It's not a fuel saver. It's a power adder. It has been proven to add power to forced induction engines for decades, and was even used for a while on stock GM turbocharged cars. Any fuel savings will require retuning to run on alcohol, but such retuning can be dangerous if one ever runs out of alcohol or fluid... which is why GM dropped the system.

Last edited by niky; 05-29-2012 at 03

Excerpts from another thread: NUVIMAX Electromagnastatic Fuel/Air Mixing System-reply #98, page 10; can't comment farther as i am not qualified on this scheme. Posted for transparency on Tsikot.com/Forum

[ghosthunter]

Quote: What's there to prove about alcohol injection? The EPA has actually stated that water injection systems allow for better economy, as they prevent detonation and can allow ultra-lean mixtures, but that this often comes at the expense of emissions. A standard alcohol injection kit does not save fuel without retuning, but that's not its purpose. It's not a fuel saver. It's a power adder. It has been proven to add power to forced induction engines for decades, and was even used for a while on stock GM turbocharged cars. Any fuel savings will require retuning to run on alcohol, but such retuning can be dangerous if one ever runs out of alcohol or fluid... which is why GM dropped the system.

Last edited by niky; 05-29-2012 at 03

Excerpts from another thread: NUVIMAX Electromagnastatic Fuel/Air Mixing System-reply #98, page 10; can't comment farther as i am not qualified on this scheme. Posted for transparency on Tsikot.com/Forum

Just to clarify. The water/alcohol injection kit that is being discussed in this discussion thread is for the purpose of increasing a diesel engine's performance. It was never meant to be a device used to economize on fuel nor reduce pollution.

[dvldoc]

Your quoting some old stuff, And the kit the epa tested was not a reputable injection system. It's a chessy kit that uses vacuum to pull in fluid (test in 1983) It's defiantly not considered a hoax in the US. Or anywhere else in the world. Everyone knows it's roots from WWII.

I could post up about 1000 dyno test that prove otherwise. Even companies like AEM have water injection systems, why because it works. You should try to update your sources. We have people make up to 10hp to 150hp on methanol injection. To be perfectly clear the kits tested by the EPA 30 years ago are not the systems of today that operate progressively off of boost or MAF inputs. Again out of date sources on kits that are nothing like the current ones sold.

It's also unmatched in NOX emission reduction, so it should make all the greenies happy.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/ima...rt%20tuner.pdf

You should try to back read or looked at all the dynos posted on here.

All kits will make around the same power, it all comes down to pump pressure and nozzle size.

http://www.snowperformance.net/magazine_articles.php

It's not meant to be a fuel saving device on any gas engine, it's for making power! On a diesel you can set it up for better fuel economy but again it's main goal is to make power. You also get free boost on forced induction engine adding to the power increase. It's makes power and there is no questioning that.

[nelany]

Hello Doc, will it be beneficial if I set the pump to max setting? I have a stage 1 (FM) and stage 2 (Crosswind) set up.
Thanks,

[dvldoc]

You will make more power but use a bit more fluid. It takes a 1/16" allen head wrench to turn up the pump. Turn it one 1/4 turn clockwise.

It's that little silver screw on the top of the pump.

[14myXUV]

You will make more power but use a bit more fluid. It takes a 1/16" allen head wrench to turn up the pump. Turn it one 1/4 turn clockwise.

It's that little silver screw on the top of the pump.

This is interesting. Will try this. Thanks for sharing.

[nelany]

Doc will the added power in the pump be beneficial to my use? Is there any rule of the thumb when to increase the pump power to max or use the factory default?
Thanks

[dvldoc]

It's a easy adjustment, try it out see what changes, if you see a improvment leave it at the 250psi setting. The pump is at 200psi out the box.

[jubs00]

Hey dvldoc, i'm planning to have a stage 2 installed by Berrima. My rig seldom gets used when i'm not in country, would this have some issues with the pump drying out? Or maybe in other components of the kit? tia

[dvldoc]

Hey dvldoc, i'm planning to have a stage 2 installed by Berrima. My rig seldom gets used when i'm not in country, would this have some issues with the pump drying out? Or maybe in other components of the kit? tia

Pump won't dry out. If you want to leave it sitting for long periods of time it's no problem. The kit can pretty much sit as long as your car can. It's only leaving it in cold climates with fluid in the lines that can freeze being a issue.

[jubs00]

Pump won't dry out. If you want to leave it sitting for long periods of time it's no problem. The kit can pretty much sit as long as your car can. It's only leaving it in cold climates with fluid in the lines that can freeze being a issue.

Great! thanks doc.

[ghosthunter]

MODERATOR'S NOTE:

All discussion on NUVIMAX and it's technology is moved to it's own discussion thread.

LINK: http://tsikot.com/forums/engine-fuel...79/index8.html


Have a nice day.

[dvldoc]

The side benefit of water injection is lower NOX emissions, So it does reduce emissions. It's simple reduce the combustion chamber temp and less NOX can form. It's not magic just simple science. We proved this time and time again with emissions testing, But again it's about making power for these 4cly turbo diesels.

And nobody tunes to be water alcohol dependent on there engines, Again this is not really a product but a delivery system, it's been around since the 40's in different forms. It's proven itself.

And if you have a duel injection system like I do on my vehicle you get a beast like this. And my emissions are still 0.25. People know what works and this does just like nitrous does, Downpipes do, Boost controllers do, Diesel tuning boxes do,they do what they say they do.

[14myXUV]

sharing the result of my quest for a stainless tank.

got one with 17L capacity from Divisoria, in one of the many shops around Divisoria Mall.

am still considering the best setup but leaning towards the non-obtrusive under-the-seat over backback.


but I have to seal off, using epoxy, all existing holes as this tank was designed for vertical use. have to remove/saw off all other parts of the spray tank that I no longer need.


next steps: drilling 7/8's for pump fitting and future float switch. also, have yet to add a hose for easy refill; maybe, i will use radiator or aircon hose to clamp on the existing snout of the tank.

Cost of tank: 1.7k. i hope it'll remain corrosion free as claimed.

[nelany]

Pang spray sa halaman yang stainless tank mo? How's the fitting under the seat?

[14myXUV]

Pang spray sa halaman yang stainless tank mo? How's the fitting under the seat?

Korek! Shoot under the seat -- see pics.