Water/Alcohol injection Turbo Diesel use

[nelany]

Doc I have a manual boost controller installed in my pajero + devilsown. Just want to know max boost for Pajero 4M40 engine can handle that I can safely use.

[dvldoc]

15psi is a good setting for the 4m40.

[nelany]

Thanks Doc!

[14myXUV]

*crazy_boy - don't have receipt now for breakdown but kit installation should be less than P5k which included boost gauge installation and some wires.

[tuazon7]

dvldoc, really new on this WA injection, can you help me understand the need for the boost gauge and the boost controller? Isn't it that the boost is already being controlled by the engine ECU for factory installed turbocharged diesel engines? TIA.

[dvldoc]

dvldoc, really new on this WA injection, can you help me understand the need for the boost gauge and the boost controller? Isn't it that the boost is already being controlled by the engine ECU for factory installed turbocharged diesel engines? TIA.

You should always have a boost gauge if you modify any turbo diesel, You don't want it to overboost and blow a head gasket from high exhaust gas temps.

The reason for a boost controller is to dial in your own boost. This only works with cars who's boost is not controlled by the ECM which is most. Variable turbos and some CRDI systems don't let you adjust the boost like the Fortuner 3.0 D4D.

Say you have a stock 4M40 engine making 8psi of boost and you want a bit more power you use the manual boost controller to crank it up. Almost any turbo charged vehicle can handle 2-3psi over stock. Most vehicles you can manually adjust the boost pressure but you need a gauge to know where it's set at.

My stock boost on my Elgrand was 8psi I run 15psi with the dual injection system that I have on it, I'll run 20psi when I get my dump pipe done this year. And the more mods you do like a dump pipe and exhaust lets you run more boost.

But if you have a common rail system you can get it chipped, Not a option for people with mechanical injection and most gas engines that are turbo charged.

[14myXUV]

here are pics for tank.



Red is for spare methanol/water (for insurance). these are strapped for now. pump is pretty stable tho' w/o bracket. currently, it's footing is clipped with the matting; will add bracket soon.

wondering if there's any other interest here for my own planned stainless tank that can be stowed under the bench like the pic on the right. Doing so, frees us up the bench for passengers.

a group buy will give us a better deal. cost items: custom stainless tank, platic tank cap, float switch (essential). since i already have an existing setup, fittings that go with the stage 1 kit will be reused.

details gathered so far:
1. custom tank with 3 holes (for cap, hose-to-pump, float switch)
2. tank approx size: 20x7x5"; approx volume: 10liters.
3. internal baffling to prevent sloshing of liquid content
4. use stainless #304 -- forgot the thickness . not all stainless are the same and for planned use, this was the type recommended.
5. costing ranged from P3.5k to P7k; will make sure all is on apple-to-apple quote; at di pa ko tumawad.
6. target completion: July (float switch availability from DevilsOwn)

visited fabricators in Pasay, Commonwealth/QC, and one just across Berrima.

Comments, referrals most welcome.

[tuazon7]

You should always have a boost gauge if you modify any turbo diesel, You don't want it to overboost and blow a head gasket from high exhaust gas temps.

The reason for a boost controller is to dial in your own boost. This only works with cars who's boost is not controlled by the ECM which is most. Variable turbos and some CRDI systems don't let you adjust the boost like the Fortuner 3.0 D4D.

Say you have a stock 4M40 engine making 8psi of boost and you want a bit more power you use the manual boost controller to crank it up. Almost any turbo charged vehicle can handle 2-3psi over stock. Most vehicles you can manually adjust the boost pressure but you need a gauge to know where it's set at.

My stock boost on my Elgrand was 8psi I run 15psi with the dual injection system that I have on it, I'll run 20psi when I get my dump pipe done this year. And the more mods you do like a dump pipe and exhaust lets you run more boost.

But if you have a common rail system you can get it chipped, Not a option for people with mechanical injection and most gas engines that are turbo charged.

Thanks doc for the info. Additional questions though:
1. How would a WA system increase the engine boost?
2. What is the stock and max boost pressure for 4D56 CRDi Turbo intercooled?
3. IPA or Denatured alcohol will work as well? Worried on the toxicity of Methanol.
4. For the Stage 2 WA, will still need to get a boost gauge and boost controller? It does not come with the package?
5. Effects of running a low-level supply or empty WA system on the engine? on the WA system?


Thanks doc!

[crazy_boy]

dvldoc, will installing a WAI kit on a non turbo diesel motor be beneficial? i am planning to install this on our 4d56 NA engine.

[dvldoc]

On a low hp engine like the 4D56 no turbo you will not gain much 2% or 5% more power. The power you get will be from burning all your fuel and raising the cetane value of your fuel. The pressure switch and the DVC-30 controller will also not work on a N/A vehicle.

A proper activation switch is kinda hard on a older diesel because it makes no vacuum to use a vacuum switch and makes no boost for a boost switch and has no sensors to get a 5v reference source from. You would have to use a micro-switch.

[crazy_boy]

On a low hp engine like the 4D56 no turbo you will not gain much 2% or 5% more power. The power you get will be from burning all your fuel and raising the cetane value of your fuel. The pressure switch and the DVC-30 controller will also not work on a N/A vehicle.

A proper activation switch is kinda hard on a older diesel because it makes no vacuum to use a vacuum switch and makes no boost for a boost switch and has no sensors to get a 5v reference source from. You would have to use a micro-switch.

ah. i was planning to install them on our 4d56 powered delivery vans. this is to prevent them from smoking and hopefully gain a few more horses. since those vans are the targets of the anti-smoke belching units of different cities.

[dvldoc]

Well it would solve the smoke issue for sure, The thing you would have to work out is how to activate the system that is adjustable. Like I said kinda hard on that engine.

I have another option for you that you can PM me about and I'll give you a parts list, and how to set it up.

[yapoy86]

Well it would solve the smoke issue for sure, The thing you would have to work out is how to activate the system that is adjustable. Like I said kinda hard on that engine.

I have another option for you that you can PM me about and I'll give you a parts list, and how to set it up.

the current 4D56 used in the adventure is equipped with EGR. I noticed they have place a TPS on the accelerator.. my question is, can i replace the EGR with WAI? my plan is to block the EGR and install a WAI and use the EGR system to trigger the WAI, is that possible?

[crazy_boy]

ok got it. then will probably work on my 4m40 first.

you got PM re:4d56

[crazy_boy]

nelany, how do they actually tune a diesel engine? i called berrima and Nilo told me that it will cost 10k daw. im intrigued

[nelany]

nelany, how do they actually tune a diesel engine? i called berrima and Nilo told me that it will cost 10k daw. im intrigued

CB, they will run your rig on the dyno to see the results and from then they will do the tuning.

[14myXUV]

a second installment on Crosswind's adventure, fresh from a very looooong trip: covered about 1,300kms, +/-24hours on the road in total and consumed at least 2 full tanks of diesel.

Visited Mayon over the weekend with friends; my first visit to Bicol. Crosswind loaded 7 passengers (incl. driver). Driving was aggressive by my standards; had to catch up with our convoy.

So, did I hit more than 120kph with boost? (one unanswered question from my earlier post) ANSWER: Unfortunately NO . Each time I hit 100kph, had to slow down either because of bad road, traffic, or dangerous curve. Even SLEX and STAR weren't very cooperative . May daga lang sa dibdib .

One highlight worth sharing: While I still had difficulty catching up with our convoy on sprints (and dreaded overtakes), I can comfortably take them on ascents and and reasonably even claim outdoing many. Crosswind earned my two thumbs up in ALL occasions when we climbed Mayon's Camp 1, Lignon Hill, Daet-Quezon stretch aka series of "bitukas" (on return to Manila), and the very challenging Atimonan's Quezon National Park (perhaps a shorter but steeper version of Tagaytay's Ligaya Drive).

Too many variables to make this a "scientific test" but one thing is certain, AFAIK: Crosswind, with boost, can ably and comfortably climb at a heavy load. I can relate now Doc's own story about this Baguio trips.

But it wasn't not all rosy. Had to beam Doc for SOS when I noticed the pump/spray sounded strange. Was so worried that I stopped using it for sometime during the trip. I had the car checked on my return to MLA and relieved to hear all's well. It's possible that the pump's internal thermal switch activated; maybe Doc can explain the details? . The diesel and alcohol consumption was rather on the high side but due perhaps to the terrain and my driving . I guess this calls for Dyno tuning for optimum performance.

My wish: that Maharlika, Quirino roads are upgraded on future visit. But for now, will pick the longer and twistier Daet route anytime.

[dvldoc]

Does it trigger off of the throttle position or just a certain point because the EGR normally is operating at cruise speeds you would use a lot of fluid up. If you wired a activation light to the system you could see where it comes on and when it goes off which should be at full throttle.

As far as replacing the the EGR with plate and a water injection nozzle, I know you can do it on a 4d56T engine.

[dvldoc]

The pumps are not continuous duty pump but demand pumps, They do have a internal thermal switch which kicks in around 240F or so. This keeps you from burning it up, It will not function until the temp drops below this. If you mount it in the engine bay around airflow then this tends to never be a problem.

I have rode in a few crosswinds and they need all the help they can get, It's good to see yours is performing like it should.

[nelany]

Bro, you should have dyno tune your ride to optimize its performance together with the Devilsown before that long drive for you to notice the significant difference. My rig is now totally different after the tuning and devilsown installation and I will not be hesitant to use it in a long drive.

So how many liters methanol mixture did you consume Is it not that the pump is pumping dry thus the sound difference?