Should you remover thermostat?

[shelu]

bro, ang makina ang mga dyep natin, modelo din yan. when those surplus engines arrived here from japan, they are fitted with t-stats. the only thing is, the way i understand, t-stats in colder countries helps in maintaining the operating temp for optimal performance of the engine. dahil pag walang t-stat, lalamig ang coolant. pag malamig ang coolant, poor engine performance at poor fuel consumption. unlike here, mainit na sa atin, kaya di na talaga siguro kailangan ang t-stat. ang taxi brod, pag may t-stat, tirik yan. kaya tinatanggal din ng mga taxi company. what im pointing out is, pag heavy duty ang gamit sa sasakyan, tatanggalin mo talaga. dahil sigurado mag over-heat. di kakayanin ng radiator na mapalamig ang coolant dahil sa restriction sanhi ng t-stat. but for normal use lang, no need to have it remove. pardon me for my shortcomings on thermodynamics. i just rely on experience.

[miked]

^i don't think so....problem with passenger jeepneys aside from the removing the t-stat is that they move to bigger radiators intensifying the overcooling problem....just read on other infos on overcooling and overheating. plus they remove the radiator cap.

automotive engines are designed to run on pressurized cooling system. this may be a bit technical to the common man (sorry) but heat transfer is greater when the temperature difference between two media (say the water in the cooling system and the air surrounding the engine) is also greater. this is where the rad cap comes in the picture to achieve this higher temperature difference.

remember, diesel engines rely on the heat of compression to be able to burn the fuel oil at optimum level. so think twice if you want to remove your t-stat.

[oj88]

bro, ang makina ang mga dyep natin, modelo din yan. when those surplus engines arrived here from japan, they are fitted with t-stats. the only thing is, the way i understand, t-stats in colder countries helps in maintaining the operating temp for optimal performance of the engine. dahil pag walang t-stat, lalamig ang coolant. pag malamig ang coolant, poor engine performance at poor fuel consumption. unlike here, mainit na sa atin, kaya di na talaga siguro kailangan ang t-stat. ang taxi brod, pag may t-stat, tirik yan. kaya tinatanggal din ng mga taxi company. what im pointing out is, pag heavy duty ang gamit sa sasakyan, tatanggalin mo talaga. dahil sigurado mag over-heat. di kakayanin ng radiator na mapalamig ang coolant dahil sa restriction sanhi ng t-stat. but for normal use lang, no need to have it remove. pardon me for my shortcomings on thermodynamics. i just rely on experience.

This is just wrong in so many levels. Sorry to say that your "shortcomings on thermodynamics" is a gross understatement.

[miked]

how about heavy duty machinery that run 24/7? stationary and mobile machinery? no thermostats in them too? i don't think so. the generator in our school was prone to overheating. discussions with the mechanic revealed that he removed the thermostat. as the inspector, i instructed him to replace the thermostat. problem solved. i even suggested a modified housing where 2 t-stats will reside instead of one. the reason is that if ever one t-stat fails to open, the other would still operate. for t-stats, go OEM. common replacement parts usually don't last long.

[kompressor]

When I got a surplus diesel engine, it had a thermostat fitted in and the mechanic who mounted the engine removed it without informing me. I noticed that it was guzzling fuel and quite smokey for a 2.0 N/A diesel so I went to investigate and voila, missing thermostat in the assembly!

I went back to that mechanic and demanded the thermostat unit. Good thing he still found it despite the mess around his shop. He gave it to me but advised against installing it and gave the very same reasons against overheating. I went home and tested it with a pot of boiling water and a thermometer. Sure enough, it still worked and opened at the approximate water temperature indicated. (88 degrees). I installed it myself and after warming the engine up, observed that the engine ran better and gone was the faint dark smoke during idle (and the black smoke during acceleration). Fuel economy improved from 5-6kms/liter on heavy traffic to 9-10km/liter.


No wonder conventional diesel engines won't start properly without a glow plug that pre-heats the combustion chamber.

[tip_tipid]

ignorance leads to removing of the critical thermostat by the traditional mechanics.
the engine has to be at a specified range of operating temperature for best performance
and fuel efficiency.
a defective thermostat, one that is not opening properly at the designed temperature will cause the
engine to overheat definitely. but it has to be replaced, not totally removed.

[docgorio]

ignorance leads to removing of the critical thermostat by the traditional mechanics.
the engine has to be at a specified range of operating temperature for best performance
and fuel efficiency.
a defective thermostat, one that is not opening properly at the designed temperature will cause the
engine to overheat definitely. but it has to be replaced, not totally removed.

AMEN to this..........

[kompressor]

ignorance leads to removing of the critical thermostat by the traditional mechanics.
the engine has to be at a specified range of operating temperature for best performance
and fuel efficiency.
a defective thermostat, one that is not opening properly at the designed temperature will cause the
engine to overheat definitely. but it has to be replaced, not totally removed.

To add to that, these are the same mechanics who glues fan clutches instead of replacing, have you buy bigger radiators, boast that they have been doing it for like 30 years or more and claim that aluminum engines nowadays are sissies compared to the cast iron bigger engines of yester-years.

[jick.cejoco]

To add to that, these are the same mechanics who glues fan clutches instead of replacing, have you buy bigger radiators, boast that they have been doing it for like 30 years or more and claim that aluminum engines nowadays are sissies compared to the cast iron bigger engines of yester-years.

wrong past experiences can not be a basis of judgment. the automobile has leaped in technology about fifteen times from ten years ago. if somebody boasts of doing for 30 years of wrong procedure or theory, they had been wrong all that time. training and education is the key. that is why, today's auto workers are called technicians and not mechanics. there is more to the car than mechanical items

[KIANTOT]

bro, ang makina ang mga dyep natin, modelo din yan. when those surplus engines arrived here from japan, they are fitted with t-stats. the only thing is, the way i understand, t-stats in colder countries helps in maintaining the operating temp for optimal performance of the engine. dahil pag walang t-stat, lalamig ang coolant. pag malamig ang coolant, poor engine performance at poor fuel consumption. unlike here, mainit na sa atin, kaya di na talaga siguro kailangan ang t-stat. ang taxi brod, pag may t-stat, tirik yan. kaya tinatanggal din ng mga taxi company. what im pointing out is, pag heavy duty ang gamit sa sasakyan, tatanggalin mo talaga. dahil sigurado mag over-heat. di kakayanin ng radiator na mapalamig ang coolant dahil sa restriction sanhi ng t-stat. but for normal use lang, no need to have it remove. pardon me for my shortcomings on thermodynamics. i just rely on experience.

But for me agree on this, same experience here, I have also jeepney before with no thermostat, hindi nag ooverheat, I think all of the jeepneys dont have thermostat, because of heavy duty use, in our hiace at Revo diesel we remove the t-stat, deffective n kase, pero hindi naman namin nilagayan ulit, hindi ko na experience mag overheat due to no t-stat.

Last July we went to baguio city, we use the hiace (no thermostat), but then normal engine temp lang sa akyatan, hindi din ganun kalamig yung panahon nung nag punta kami kase nung tanghaling tapat habang nag iikot kami naka AC pa, then we stop by sa isang resto besides burnham hindi ko na pinatay yung engine habang nasa resto kami, naiwan ako sa loob ng van with my son sleeping kase, almost 3hrs kmi naka stop with AC on, normal temp engine lang. mas ok pa sakin walang t-sat sa van, hindi mainit yung upuan, unlike meron maintain yung engine temp sa half kaya mainit.

[s10pao]

But for me agree on this, same experience here, I have also jeepney before with no thermostat, hindi nag ooverheat, I think all of the jeepneys dont have thermostat, because of heavy duty use, in our hiace at Revo diesel we remove the t-stat, deffective n kase, pero hindi naman namin nilagayan ulit, hindi ko na experience mag overheat due to no t-stat.

Last July we went to baguio city, we use the hiace (no thermostat), but then normal engine temp lang sa akyatan, hindi din ganun kalamig yung panahon nung nag punta kami kase nung tanghaling tapat habang nag iikot kami naka AC pa, then we stop by sa isang resto besides burnham hindi ko na pinatay yung engine habang nasa resto kami, naiwan ako sa loob ng van with my son sleeping kase, almost 3hrs kmi naka stop with AC on, normal temp engine lang. mas ok pa sakin walang t-sat sa van, hindi mainit yung upuan, unlike meron maintain yung engine temp sa half kaya mainit.

pwede naman talaga walang thermostat pero hinde optimal ung performance ng engine.

[KIANTOT]

pwede naman talaga walang thermostat pero hinde optimal ung performance ng engine.

Agree on that sir, I have just say my opinion from the previous comments na pag walang thermostat madalas mag overheat, pero I observed lang hindi siya optimal pag below sa 1/4 ng temp gauge ko, hindi ok yung hatak, it happens only in rainy days especially cruising down the hill, yung 1/4 and above ok yung performance yung weather naman sa atin not as much colder compare in other countries kaya ok lang kahit walang thermostat.

[s10pao]

Agree on that sir, I have just say my opinion from the previous comments na pag walang thermostat madalas mag overheat, pero I observed lang hindi siya optimal pag below sa 1/4 ng temp gauge ko, hindi ok yung hatak, it happens only in rainy days especially cruising down the hill, yung 1/4 and above ok yung performance yung weather naman sa atin not as much colder compare in other countries kaya ok lang kahit walang thermostat.

OK I understand. pero kailangan din natin isipin na may purpose talaga ang thermostat kaya sya inilagay ng mga manufacturers, otherwise tinanggal na yan para makatipid sila. also, pag laging nag-ci-circulate ung coolant, mas mabilis syang mag-deteriorate at maging corrosive. kung tatanggalin nyo yan, siguraduhin lang na mas frequent ang flushing ng coolant. mas matipid ata magpalit ng thermostat kesa i-repair ang cooling system ng engine (ex. radiator).

[KIANTOT]

OK I understand. pero kailangan din natin isipin na may purpose talaga ang thermostat kaya sya inilagay ng mga manufacturers, otherwise tinanggal na yan para makatipid sila. also, pag laging nag-ci-circulate ung coolant, mas mabilis syang mag-deteriorate at maging corrosive. kung tatanggalin nyo yan, siguraduhin lang na mas frequent ang flushing ng coolant. mas matipid ata magpalit ng thermostat kesa i-repair ang cooling system ng engine (ex. radiator).

I see sir, but I do not use radiator coolant anymore, distilled watar lang ang nilalagay ko, before I use coolant, yun nga lang hindi regular noon yung pag flushing ko ng coolant, kaya yun nga nabutas yung 2 tube ng radiator, also I have very bad experience sa thermostat ko noon, hindi nag open sa tamang temp running along SLEX, yung result biglang nag high temp yung gauge, wala pa ako idea noon kung anu ang naging cause, I'm thinking baka yung water pump na ang deffect, pero natrace ko din na yung cause ay sa deffective thermostat.

[s10pao]

I see sir, but I do not use radiator coolant anymore, distilled watar lang ang nilalagay ko, before I use coolant, yun nga lang hindi regular noon yung pag flushing ko ng coolant, kaya yun nga nabutas yung 2 tube ng radiator, also I have very bad experience sa thermostat ko noon, hindi nag open sa tamang temp running along SLEX, yung result biglang nag high temp yung gauge, wala pa ako idea noon kung anu ang naging cause, I'm thinking baka yung water pump na ang deffect, pero natrace ko din na yung cause ay sa deffective thermostat.

possible cause nung leak ay extended flush interval ng engine cooling system.

may isang thread discussion dito tungkol sa coolant. sabi nung isang nag-comment na ang purpose ng coolant ay to prevent the water to become corrosive. may isa rin na nag-comment na distilled water lang ang gamit nya pero every 2 to 6 mos ata flush nya ng engine cooling system to prevent corrosion. pag may coolant kasi an recommended flush interval is 2 years.

one way to check if defective na ung thermostat is to check the hoses of the radiator, I think there are 2 (intake and outflow). check nyo kung laging maiinit ung isa at ung isa ay malamig kahit nag-on na ung auxilliary fan.

[jick.cejoco]

possible cause nung leak ay extended flush interval ng engine cooling system.

may isang thread discussion dito tungkol sa coolant. sabi nung isang nag-comment na ang purpose ng coolant ay to prevent the water to become corrosive. may isa rin na nag-comment na distilled water lang ang gamit nya pero every 2 to 6 mos ata flush nya ng engine cooling system to prevent corrosion. pag may coolant kasi an recommended flush interval is 2 years.

one way to check if defective na ung thermostat is to check the hoses of the radiator, I think there are 2 (intake and outflow). check nyo kung laging maiinit ung isa at ung isa ay malamig kahit nag-on na ung auxilliary fan.

the functions of the antifreeze are to raise the boiling point in addition to raising the system pressure, to lower the freezing point, to lubricate moving parts like the water pump and thermostat, to increase heat absorption and to prevent or slow corrosion down. most engines are bimetallic or trimetallic in the cooling system passages. that is; cast iron engine block, aluminum cylinder heads, zinc water pump housing, zinc thermostat housing,copper heater core and steel tubings. these materials have different electron configurations and the water serves as an electrolyte in accelerating galvanic corrosion. the aluminum and zinc are the first ones to get corroded. the zinc thermostat housing is usually the sacrificial metal. without antifreeze coolant, the distilled water still permits premature corrosion

[s10pao]

the functions of the antifreeze are to raise the boiling point in addition to raising the system pressure, to lower the freezing point, to lubricate moving parts like the water pump and thermostat, to increase heat absorption and to prevent or slow corrosion down. most engines are bimetallic or trimetallic in the cooling system passages. that is; cast iron engine block, aluminum cylinder heads, zinc water pump housing, zinc thermostat housing,copper heater core and steel tubings. these materials have different electron configurations and the water serves as an electrolyte in accelerating galvanic corrosion. the aluminum and zinc are the first ones to get corroded. the zinc thermostat housing is usually the sacrificial metal. without antifreeze coolant, the distilled water still permits premature corrosion

related topic
http://tsikot.com/forums/engine-fuel...5/#post1069052

[s10pao]

sir jick.cejoco may tanong pala ako dun sa construction and operation ng thermostat. electronically controlled ba ito or purely mechanical device sya? synchronized ba ung pag-open nya at ung pag-ON nung auxilliary fan ng radiator? TIA.

[jick.cejoco]

the thermostat is opened and closed by the expansion or return of the wax pellet inside the sensing bulb back to normal size and is operated thermally. the radiator fan thermoswitch is operated by a bimetallic strip inside the switch utilizing the difference in expansion rates of the two metal strips stuck together. they operate independent of each other and they have different operating temperatures. for example: the thermostat may begin to open at 86 degrees fahrenheit but the fan thermoswitch enables the fan control relay at 190 degrees fahrenheit on some engines. this demonstrates they are not synchronous

[kompressor]

Agree on that sir, I have just say my opinion from the previous comments na pag walang thermostat madalas mag overheat, pero I observed lang hindi siya optimal pag below sa 1/4 ng temp gauge ko, hindi ok yung hatak, it happens only in rainy days especially cruising down the hill, yung 1/4 and above ok yung performance yung weather naman sa atin not as much colder compare in other countries kaya ok lang kahit walang thermostat.

Actually, the previous comments stated na pag walang thermostat ay overcooled ang engine. Napasok lang sa discussion ang overheat kasi nga common practice ng mga "traditional" mechanics na tanggalin ang thermostat as a band-aid remedy against overheating. And ang line of reasoning nila ay "dinesign yan para sa Japan eh wala naman tayong taglamig".

Regarding your previous testimony, you should have replaced the thermostat with an OEM one instead of removing it. If there are no leaks or clogged lines in the cooling system and the thermostat and water pumps work properly, the same situation you mentioned (parked with engine and a/c on under sunlight) can be achieved even with the thermostat installed. Done them both on a Tamaraw FX (7k) and a Nissan Vanette (LD20 diesel) without overheating. Both with thermostats intact.

You also mentioned that you did notice your engine's response to be sluggish when the temp needle is below the ¼ range. That is because your oil's viscosity is not maximized if your engine's temp is not in the optimal operating temp range. This will result to premature wear and tear. You'll be experiencing loose cylinder compression earlier than those who do not remove their thermostat. Not to mention, a noticeable drop in fuel economy. Of course, thermostats are bound to fail due to wear and tear but if you're conscious about your vehicle's maintenance, you'll be aware that a thermostat is due for replacement without having to experience an overheat. Just be conscious of your temp gauge like a driving teenager-wannabe-racer who always looks at his speedometer.