Low Power can be caused by "bara" or a leak somewhere in the exhaust line?

[wowiesy]

I did some posts asking for help in the engine / fuel system thread for help in my 2005 Innova G diesel. The issue is low power. I already took it to a diesel shop (not a Toyota dealer) to have it diagnosed with their scanner and the tests they did didn't give anything conclusive as to what is causing low power in my vehicle. They even installed a known within spec test fuel pump just to see if it is my fuel pump that is causing the low power, buti na lang my pump wasn't the problem.

Kanina ko lang naalala na earlier this year (around March ata), I had a small accident of backing into a ramp which hit my exhaust muffler. May konting tama yung exhaust tip, but after that incident, I noticed a rattling sound underneath everytime I started the engine and everytime naka idle.

I took it to an exhaust muffler shop (neighborhood - not really sure if they're the best or they are the experts)... and the guy who looked at it suggested to change a portion of the system to a "flexible hose type" to connect 2 parts...

I had my doubts on that but I went on with it anyway since at that time ala rin ako gaano alam about intake, manifolds, headers, etc... after the guy cut a portion of the pipe, he then welded the flexible hose to reconnect the whole system. At this point, nawala na yung ingay...

Now, I am wondering that maybe, this is related to the low power I am experiencing right now? What should I have to do to double check that this isn't causing the low power? Can you guys recommend a good exhaust system shop?

[niky]

The sound alone will tell you if you have an exhaust leak... but you can take it to an exhaust shop to check, anyway.

Did you notice the loss in power right after? Or only after a while? If it was right after the job, it could be botched welds...

If it started after a while, the welds or the flexible joint they used could have sprung a leak. But if there's no hissing noise and you can feel no air coming from the joints in the exhaust when you have the car up on a lift, it may not be that.

[Excalibur]

I did some posts asking for help in the engine / fuel system thread for help in my 2005 Innova G diesel. The issue is low power. I already took it to a diesel shop (not a Toyota dealer) to have it diagnosed with their scanner and the tests they did didn't give anything conclusive as to what is causing low power in my vehicle. They even installed a known within spec test fuel pump just to see if it is my fuel pump that is causing the low power, buti na lang my pump wasn't the problem.

Kanina ko lang naalala na earlier this year (around March ata), I had a small accident of backing into a ramp which hit my exhaust muffler. May konting tama yung exhaust tip, but after that incident, I noticed a rattling sound underneath everytime I started the engine and everytime naka idle.

I took it to an exhaust muffler shop (neighborhood - not really sure if they're the best or they are the experts)... and the guy who looked at it suggested to change a portion of the system to a "flexible hose type" to connect 2 parts...

I had my doubts on that but I went on with it anyway since at that time ala rin ako gaano alam about intake, manifolds, headers, etc... after the guy cut a portion of the pipe, he then welded the flexible hose to reconnect the whole system. At this point, nawala na yung ingay...

Now, I am wondering that maybe, this is related to the low power I am experiencing right now? What should I have to do to double check that this isn't causing the low power? Can you guys recommend a good exhaust system shop?

try mufflerland along kamias ata yun.

they will give an objective assessment and would not resort to suggestive selling gaya ng iba na para mka benta lang kung ano-ano ang sina-suggest na ipagawa.

[technismo]

pag low power minsan cause ay supply pump, injector. or baka barado na yung filter sa fuel tank..

[wowiesy]

pag low power minsan cause ay supply pump, injector. or baka barado na yung filter sa fuel tank..

na check na supply pump and tested okay naman... injector hindi pa since masyado mahal (last option na to).. fuel filter kakapalit lang sa casa a few weeks ago...

granted na hindi supply pump, hindi rin injector at hindi rin fuel filter or air filter... posible ba na may problem dun sa pagkakagawa nung flexible hose? or possible din ba na nung nabangga yung exhaust system sa ramp ay may iba pang na damage na hindi agad nakita at nung huli lang naramdaman in terms of low power?

sa akin kasi.. i just want to know even the theoretical side of it... baka kasi pag dinala ko agad sa muffler shop eh.. ano ano ang gawin and then in the end hindi rin maayos yung original na problem...

[wowiesy]

The sound alone will tell you if you have an exhaust leak... but you can take it to an exhaust shop to check, anyway.

so far ala ako napapansin na kakaibang tunog...

Did you notice the loss in power right after? Or only after a while? If it was right after the job, it could be botched welds...

i'm not sure if the low power was already there when the flexible hose was installed... i barely remember na parang may napansin nga ako na parang low power but hindi sing grabe ng what is happening now...

If it started after a while, the welds or the flexible joint they used could have sprung a leak. But if there's no hissing noise and you can feel no air coming from the joints in the exhaust when you have the car up on a lift, it may not be that.

[niky]

Might be a gasket leaking or some other damage with the exhaust system... best to take it to a good shop (I agree, Mufflerland is a good choice) and have them look at the work.

Mufflerland has a TIG machine, which allows them to make much nicer welds than your typical backyard shop...

Come to think of it... it definitely could be a leaking exhaust manifold gasket... causing low boost in your turbo... which would explain your problems quite nicely without causing a CEL... but you would have been able to hear this when you checked it out... hmmm....

[bambino]

pwede rin ma measure yung backpressure kung restricted or not.

[wowiesy]

Might be a gasket leaking or some other damage with the exhaust system... best to take it to a good shop (I agree, Mufflerland is a good choice) and have them look at the work.

okay. i checked out the mufflerland website and mukhang okay naman... i'll try to make time to bring it to them this week..

Come to think of it... it definitely could be a leaking exhaust manifold gasket... causing low boost in your turbo... which would explain your problems quite nicely without causing a CEL... but you would have been able to hear this when you checked it out... hmmm....

CEL is check engine light tama? hmm baka nga no... so pag dinala sa exhaust shop they lift it up and we can see kung may problem nga? what if banda sa engine yung broken gasket as you say it?

anyway, i think i have to bring it in talaga para ma check...

wowie

[wowiesy]

pwede rin ma measure yung backpressure kung restricted or not.

this is done sa exhaust shop? o sa diesel calibration center?

[bambino]

pwede sa diesel calibration centers na since diesel ang ride mo.

procedure, max. 2.5 psi at 2500rpm .
more than 2.5 psi ,possible clogged up cat. converter if equiped.

[wowiesy]

Come to think of it... it definitely could be a leaking exhaust manifold gasket... causing low boost in your turbo... which would explain your problems quite nicely without causing a CEL... but you would have been able to hear this when you checked it out... hmmm....

I hope to be able to conclude this issue na... had the unit brought to Mufflerland... they checked and true enough, yung dugtungan ng flexible hose to the exhaust system ay may mga butas na nga... (backyard welding lang ang gumawa and hindi pa naka lift kaya I suppose hirap gawin.. or talagang nabutas na rin after some time.. but that was installed around March of this year lang.. ) anyway, they further inspected the whole exhaust line and they found another crack somewhere sa bend after the muffler mismo... must've been a casualty nung nabangga nga but hindi na nakita.... they took out that segment and repaired the crack (welding)... installed it back to the flange... and to top it all, I purchased an exhaust tip =)... after everything was installed .. i paid the fee and drove out...

1st impressions... mukhang bumalik na yung power on 1st gear under 2500rpm.... hindi pa ako napapa daan sa may incline or tulay or flyover to really observe... but hopefully... should be okay... sa patag parang mas may bite na sya ngayon... and accelerating when overtaking sa quezon ave was better na rin.. will post further observations na lang...

ang pahabol ko lang.. at hindi ko maintindihan (although I see the effect at mukhang naniniwala naman ako na may effect yun) ... ano ang kinalaman ng may tagas na exhaust line sa low power output ng engine? rephrasing, ano ang contribution ng proper and intact exhaust line sa overall power ng isang engine (be it diesel or gas)? napapaisip lang kasi ako... on an intact and proper exhaust line, lalabas pa rin yung exhaust through the muffler and then the tip, hindi naman closed system that a certain pressure should be maintained.... bakit nung nagka butas ay humina ang hatak? ano ang kinalaman nun sa engine power?

[niky]

The leak will cause an interruption in the flow of the exhaust... even though the air is technically still going out... the flow is no longer laminar... and this causes a chokepoint where the leak is... causing more backpressure... hindering the spool-up of the turbine... thus, less power.

[timo07]

I hope to be able to conclude this issue na... had the unit brought to Mufflerland... they checked and true enough, yung dugtungan ng flexible hose to the exhaust system ay may mga butas na nga... (backyard welding lang ang gumawa and hindi pa naka lift kaya I suppose hirap gawin.. or talagang nabutas na rin after some time.. but that was installed around March of this year lang.. ) anyway, they further inspected the whole exhaust line and they found another crack somewhere sa bend after the muffler mismo... must've been a casualty nung nabangga nga but hindi na nakita.... they took out that segment and repaired the crack (welding)... installed it back to the flange... and to top it all, I purchased an exhaust tip =)... after everything was installed .. i paid the fee and drove out...

1st impressions... mukhang bumalik na yung power on 1st gear under 2500rpm.... hindi pa ako napapa daan sa may incline or tulay or flyover to really observe... but hopefully... should be okay... sa patag parang mas may bite na sya ngayon... and accelerating when overtaking sa quezon ave was better na rin.. will post further observations na lang...

ang pahabol ko lang.. at hindi ko maintindihan (although I see the effect at mukhang naniniwala naman ako na may effect yun) ... ano ang kinalaman ng may tagas na exhaust line sa low power output ng engine? rephrasing, ano ang contribution ng proper and intact exhaust line sa overall power ng isang engine (be it diesel or gas)? napapaisip lang kasi ako... on an intact and proper exhaust line, lalabas pa rin yung exhaust through the muffler and then the tip, hindi naman closed system that a certain pressure should be maintained.... bakit nung nagka butas ay humina ang hatak? ano ang kinalaman nun sa engine power?

Makisali lang. I was following your posting doon sa thread ni Dieseldude about your D4D. I too, own an Innova D4D. Although I know the principle behind the effect of an exhaust system, hindi ko maipaliwanag yung observation mo sa kotse after the repairs. Technically, what your trying to explain is that, with those leaks, the backpressure should be less than usual and that should not cause the engine to loose power. Tama ka, the exhaust muffler is there to minimize ("muffle") the engine combustion noise. As it does that job, it provides a restriction on the exhaust gases that lessens the engine power. Based on your result, those leaks provide an opposite reaction to the theory. Maybe Niky is right in her (or his?) explanation but I am not knowledgeable to explain. Those leaks appear to provide more restriction rather than lessening it.?

[niky]

Niky is definitely a "he"... ask my wife...

Any flow interruption will cause problems... and a leak is a flow interruption... it causes turbulence... slows down the exhaust flow, and makes it difficult for the rest of the exhaust flow to punch through the particulate filter. If you really want unimpeded flow, you just remove the exhaust completely... the engine will gain a lot of power, that way... the turbo will spool up right away... and your Innova will sound like a Jeepney...

...or maybe not... The Focus TDCi racecars have no muffler, just a straight pipe, and they sound quite wicked, and not as loud as you might think... of course, this is illegal for road use...

[timo07]

Niky is definitely a "he"... ask my wife...

Any flow interruption will cause problems... and a leak is a flow interruption... it causes turbulence... slows down the exhaust flow, and makes it difficult for the rest of the exhaust flow to punch through the particulate filter. If you really want unimpeded flow, you just remove the exhaust completely... the engine will gain a lot of power, that way... the turbo will spool up right away... and your Innova will sound like a Jeepney...

...or maybe not... The Focus TDCi racecars have no muffler, just a straight pipe, and they sound quite wicked, and not as loud as you might think... of course, this is illegal for road use...

Sir Niky, thank you for the confirmation, he..he.. I browse different threads of interest every now and then and I encounter your posts mostly on performance and/or aesthetic related discussions. Sorry if I got the impression that you were a Lady Car Enthusiast.

Anyway, your explanation makes sense. Thanks.

[wowiesy]

update lang po...

it's been a few days since napa check ko yung exhaust system and found na may tagas na nga .. napagawa na yung unit and...

there is definitely a big improvement sa power especially sa range ng 2500rpm and below... sa rampa paakyat sa condo hindi na sya masyadong bitin (altho medyo bitin pa rin) but compared to before naayos yung exhaust ay talagang bitin sya... pag akyat ng flyover or bridges (edsa ortigas flyover / meralco j vargas flyover) hindi na sya gaanong hirap.... pag accelerate din sa nlex, ramdam mo na yung power below 2500rpm (not like yung dati na it seemed na power only comes in at about 2000rpm...

i still have a feeling na parang bitin pa rin but i'll take the improvement... it is still an improvement...

[niky]

Did your system have a flex pipe before the first repair, or was it simply added?

Did Mufflerland replace your flex with another flex?

If the stock system has no flex pipe in it, then you will experience slightly degraded performance due to the addition of the flex pipe... but it's a small sacrifice for the lower vibration and protection from cracked gaskets (due to the lower vibration) that a flex pipe gives you.

[KERSMcRae]

Sir Niky, thank you for the confirmation, he..he.. I browse different threads of interest every now and then and I encounter your posts mostly on performance and/or aesthetic related discussions. Sorry if I got the impression that you were a Lady Car Enthusiast.

Anyway, your explanation makes sense. Thanks.

OT:
same with me when I read (first time) the handle "niky" ...
Good thing I can view the public profile.

[wowiesy]

Did your system have a flex pipe before the first repair, or was it simply added?

Did Mufflerland replace your flex with another flex?

If the stock system has no flex pipe in it, then you will experience slightly degraded performance due to the addition of the flex pipe... but it's a small sacrifice for the lower vibration and protection from cracked gaskets (due to the lower vibration) that a flex pipe gives you.

The orig wasnt flex type. Sa pagkasabi nga ng mufflerland usually cat converter ang nakalagay dun sa pinaglagyan ng flex pipe which made me feel i was duped nung unang nagkabit ng flex pipe dahil cut lang sya at walang banggit kung ano yung tinanggal. I havent really verified though kng stock diesel innova really comes with a cat converter.

A part of me feels that this sensitivity to the so called low power issue is just that side of me who was looking forward to sell the innova and get an everest =)