CARB TYPE ENGINE VS FUEL INJECTED ENGINE [merged threads]

[badkuk]

it seems to me that long term maintenance -- e.g. repair, paghanap ng mekaniko, etc -- ung main problem with EFIs, not fuel efficiency per se...although it's also worth asking kung gaano kadalas ba nasisira ung ECU/electronics ng EFI. pagkakaalam ko is kung grabeng baha't naabutan ng baha ung ECU.

btw, is there such a thing as "replacement" ECUs/sensors/etc for EFIs? kumbaga parang replacement vs. OE na shocks or sparkplugs, for example. i'm stuck on carb pa kasi, though i'm not really complaining B)

[wildthing]

This getting OT, pero the best bet is simply an ECU from surplus to fit your carb set-up.

Alternative ko sana nuon was to put an O2 sensor sa manifold, then when I tune the carb, I'll be using the read out ng O2 sensor kung stoich ang fuel mix.

[banaweonline]

between EFI and CARB, it really boils down to what the owner or driver can do to achieve fuel efficiency and reduce maintenance
whether carb or efi, matic or manual, hatchback or sedan, newbies, diy's, or mechanics, or what have you...
tsikot is always here to help...
right guys?

[niky]

No "replacement" ECUs, but surplus can go between 10-20k, depending on the car. Brand new ones are 40k+. (I know all this from experience. ).

[wildthing]

grabe pala EFI...a brand new carb won't even reach P10k...

[woodfire]

...speaking of carbs, I just ordered an Edelbrock Carburetor for my '67 mustang. I was pleasantly surprised that it comes with a 36-page manual which details how to tune and trouble shoot the carb. hehehe...

[pitbullz]

how much na ba ngayon ang aisan na carbs na bago?

by the way. the money oyu save on fuel may be the price you pay pagnasira ECU mo hehehe

[wildthing]

OT magkanu kuha mu sa edelbrock mo?

[finchy18]

go Carb go!

Masakit talaga efi pag dating nang sira-an..

ouch! ECU po ba nasira?

[badkuk]

doesn't look like we'd have much of a a choice in the future though; puro EFI na rin ung naglalabasan ngayon eh.

[Alpha_One]

doesn't look like we'd have much of a a choice in the future though; puro EFI na rin ung naglalabasan ngayon eh.

And why not? EFI has many advantages over carb, namely:

1) Fuel economy advantage, but not by much over a fine-tuned carb.
2) Better emissions control, will be of use if stricter emission laws will take place.
3) Most important of all: in case customer is obsessed about tweaking cars, but doesn't really know anything about cars, he can't break the setup just by turning a couple of screws (depends).

[badkuk]

alpha_one:3) Most important of all: in case customer is obsessed about tweaking cars, but doesn't really know anything about cars, he can't break the setup just by turning a couple of screws (depends)

hmm, you got a point there. pero i have this conspiracy theory kasi.

baka time will come cars would be so high-tech that ordinary auto shops won't be able to service them anymore -- casa talaga ang bagsak mo; or baka maging disposable na ung major components, wala nang repair repair, ala computer.

on a lesser note...i'm a bit of a control freak; for some reason it bothers me to have a car that only casas can repair :D

re emissions control...impression ko kasi is that it really depends on

1. how efficient your setup is(carb or EFI), or
2. the emission control devices you have installed(catalytic converter, which imho *should* be required by law to be installed on *all* cars, new or old. too many kids having asthma/respiratory diseases these days )

peace sir Alpha :hippie:

[Alpha_One]

hmm, you got a point there. pero i have this conspiracy theory kasi.

baka time will come cars would be so high-tech that ordinary auto shops won't be able to service them anymore -- casa talaga ang bagsak mo; or baka maging disposable na ung major components, wala nang repair repair, ala computer.

on a lesser note...i'm a bit of a control freak; for some reason it bothers me to have a car that only casas can repair :D

If there is a conspiracy, I'd still think it's more of a "stupid customer giving the dealer too much work" thing. As for becoming "too" high tech, not every car out there is a BMW M5, and if a Toyota is common enough most shops would be able to service it, wouldn't it?

re emissions control...impression ko kasi is that it really depends on

1. how efficient your setup is(carb or EFI), or
2. the emission control devices you have installed(catalytic converter, which imho *should* be required by law to be installed on *all* cars, new or old. too many kids having asthma/respiratory diseases these days )

peace sir Alpha :hippie:

The problem with the carb is that it can't really tune itself when humidity, temperature, altitude et al. changes. The ~14.5:1 A:F ratio isn't constant (hence the tilde). I don't want to put readers to sleep with a chemistry lecture, so put it this way. The air itself doesn't react with the fuel in the combustion reaction, only the oxygen. You want all the oxygen and the fuel to be consumed (the exact ratio at which a chemical reaction occurs is called a stoichiometric ratio). Cat converters can't convert NOx if there's too much air, and they'd clog up if there's too much unburnt fuel. Let's not forget that different brands/grades of fuel have slightly different formulations and additives, which makes things complicated. The EFI+Oxygen sensor computer controlled setup allows for real-time transparent fine-tuning of this. Carbs do a good job of approximating the stoich ratio for power and fuel economy purposes, but it can't do the real-time transparent fine tuning that the EFI+O2 sensor setup is capable of.

Still, the carb is still the most reliable and tweakable fuel delivery system.

[Alpha_One]

P.S. IMO, a law requiring *old* cars to have cats would be impractical, especially if the car it's installed on isn't designed to have one. It'll be really difficult for owners and casas alike. Besides, if government can get rid of old public transportation, there'd be so few old cars that their contribution to pollution would be negligible.

Don't get me wrong on the air pollution issue, I have asthma myself.

[theveed]

Nagiging "unservicable" lang computer controlled cars if the shops/mechanics don't invest time and resources to increase their knowledge sa new tech and if they don't invest in computer scanning equipment.

[badkuk]

ic...impression ko kc dati is that catalytic converters is that it would compensate somehow for a less than efficient engine; it turns out that dependent din pala sya dun.


anyways, getting OT B)

[pitbullz]

as for me id go for the 'quick and dirty' solution...maybe its part practicality or maybe i just want the engine to run the way i want it to,just by turning some screws. heck i even put a wire from my throttle to the secondary para magbuka yung secondary when the trhottle reaches a certain angle. pero inalis ko na hehehe bumilis kotse ko pero lumakas din laklak...natural
overcomplicating things may be bad in the long run...thats just me speaking. other people may think differently :-) i always have this 'russian army' mentality. if it's serviceable by just using a few screws and rubber band,then its fit for fighting hehehe

[niky]

EFI engines become unserviceable when the parts suppliers refuse to build new parts. Like with the Opel/Lotus Carlton, or with the Daewoo(Opel copied) cars (now you know why they're so cheap secondhand :lol: ). As long as it's a major brand, it's not hard to support an EFI car in the long run.

grabe pala EFI...a brand new carb won't even reach P10k...

I know I'm always the one complaining that electronics are so hard to replace... but a brand new "replacement" carb usually has a poor lifespan, while an OEM carb costs around 20-30k brand new. But you can always get a racing carb...

Still, considering computer boxes average 40k brand new, and fuel injectors also cost quite a bit... not to mention throttle bodies... you're looking at around 80-100k in parts doing the same job as an old 30k carb (throttle, injector nozzles and control system... all in one place!)

[woodfire]

OT magkanu kuha mu sa edelbrock mo?

Got it for less than US$350.00 Its the Thunder AVS Series carb with adjustable valve secondaries. For an old car like mine ('67 model pa), i think its better to go carb. I went for edelbrock kasi it will match the edelbrock intake manifold and edelbrock cylinder heads i installed.

for newer cars, i'd go for EFI - better emission, fuel mileage, air-fuel constancy, etc...

[basti08]

EFI.

though less complex talaga ang carb.

yun nga lang di ko to gugustuhin sa mga malalaking makina kase tatalunin ka naman sa konsumo ng gas...

so in the end...EFI parin.