Ignition (secondary) Circuit Problem...

[miked]

conventional contact point gas engine (willys engine)

Engine ran at idle for about 3 minutes then just went dead. tried restarting, just a click on the starter. unbolted starter then wired directly to battery and after some hesitation, came back to life. now starter turns over, but engine wont start.

Situation report:
1. Ammeter stays at zero when switched on (previously, ammeter swings to discharge side when "switched On". tried wiggling and reconnecting all connections for possible corrosion still the same)
2. no spark at the ignition coil secondary
3. Got battery voltage at ignition coil positive and negative terminals (with a spark on the points when opened).
4. ignition coil primary resistance = 4 ohms
5. ignition coil secondary resistance = 8,100 ohms
6. ignition coil to distributor hi-tension wire resistance = 1017 ohms.
7. no carbon tracks on distributor housing. looks good visually.

comments/inputs please.

[Phoenix67]

did you also check the fuel? tumakbo ng three minutes...means merun fuel sa baso (carburator reservoir) but it was probably not replenished (fuel leak, kulang ang fuel, no fuel na sa tank, putol ang fuel line, or barado ang fuel line are among the possible cause).

if fuel is not the issue, kalasin mo ang isang spark plug and check if merun spark pag-niredondo mo ang engine. if wala, your ignition coil could be faulty....try mong manghiram ng working coil and replace it muna to test the engine again.

[miked]

oops, forgot to tell lotsa fuel....item #2 says no spark at ignition secondary therefore no spark also on all 4 spark plugs.

got battery voltage on the primary winding, switch side and ground side.

[tip_tipid]

1. check that the distributor contact point asm is not corroded and properly gapped.
2.. check that the distributor contact point condenser is not bad.
You can try to create spark just by turning the ignition switch to on and manually operate the contact point. The point should be initially at closed position.

[jick.cejoco]

conventional contact point gas engine (willys engine)

Engine ran at idle for about 3 minutes then just went dead. tried restarting, just a click on the starter. unbolted starter then wired directly to battery and after some hesitation, came back to life. now starter turns over, but engine wont start.

Situation report:
1. Ammeter stays at zero when switched on (previously, ammeter swings to discharge side when "switched On". tried wiggling and reconnecting all connections for possible corrosion still the same)
2. no spark at the ignition coil secondary
3. Got battery voltage at ignition coil positive and negative terminals (with a spark on the points when opened).
4. ignition coil primary resistance = 4 ohms
5. ignition coil secondary resistance = 8,100 ohms
6. ignition coil to distributor hi-tension wire resistance = 1017 ohms.
7. no carbon tracks on distributor housing. looks good visually.

comments/inputs please.

your ignition coil resistance is a bit too high and if there is spark at the gap between the points is an indication your condenser is shorted. with an analog (needle type) multi meter set in resistance mode, check resistance in forward then in reverse. the needle should move right then collapse back to the left, reverse the procedure and the same result should be expected. if the needle does not behave as described, the condenser is either open or shorted. if you have a tach/dwell meter, the points dwell should be within the 52 degrees

[miked]

your ignition coil resistance is a bit too high and if there is spark at the gap between the points is an indication your condenser is shorted. with an analog (needle type) multi meter set in resistance mode, check resistance in forward then in reverse. the needle should move right then collapse back to the left, reverse the procedure and the same result should be expected. if the needle does not behave as described, the condenser is either open or shorted. if you have a tach/dwell meter, the points dwell should be within the 52 degrees

which resistance? primary or secondary? an internet source tells about 0.5 -1.0 ohms primary resistance (w/o a ballast resistor) and a maximum of 4.0 ohms (w/ ballast resistor). secondary winding ranges from 9,500 ohms - 10,000 ohms.
btw, no idea if coil has an internal ballast or not.

tried to connect a voltmeter on the ground side (distributor side) of the coil and cranked engine. voltage reading ranges from 7.++ to 12.++ while cranking.

[t2erns]

is that coil ground pulsing? my basis for computing a wire resistance (high tension wire to distributor) is 1k ohms per inch

[jick.cejoco]

which resistance? primary or secondary? an internet source tells about 0.5 -1.0 ohms primary resistance (w/o a ballast resistor) and a maximum of 4.0 ohms (w/ ballast resistor). secondary winding ranges from 9,500 ohms - 10,000 ohms.
btw, no idea if coil has an internal ballast or not.

tried to connect a voltmeter on the ground side (distributor side) of the coil and cranked engine. voltage reading ranges from 7.++ to 12.++ while cranking.

that's correct! the primary resistance is usually less than or around one ohm. if you want to know if the primary circuit has an external or internal (built-in) resistor, check the voltage at the ignition coil positive terminal. but since you stated you have a vintage willys overland engine, the primary circuit is that of two: one direct battery voltage (start mode) for quicker start ups and one ballasted run circuit once you release the ignition switch to run mode, then you have an ignition coil that has no internal resistor

[miked]

is that coil ground pulsing? my basis for computing a wire resistance (high tension wire to distributor) is 1k ohms per inch

yap.pulsing voltage. an internet source again says that it should cycle from 0 volt to 12 volt.

[miked]

your ignition coil resistance is a bit too high and if there is spark at the gap between the points is an indication your condenser is shorted. with an analog (needle type) multi meter set in resistance mode, check resistance in forward then in reverse. the needle should move right then collapse back to the left, reverse the procedure and the same result should be expected. if the needle does not behave as described, the condenser is either open or shorted. if you have a tach/dwell meter, the points dwell should be within the 52 degrees

i have two spare condensers. swapped them both, still the same. contact point gap is right at 0.020 inch.

[jick.cejoco]

i have two spare condensers. swapped them both, still the same. contact point gap is right at 0.020 inch.

check your wiring inside the distributor it might be grounded or open. the breaker points (contact points) should be free to make and break continuity to ground to energize and to deenergize the coil. the points are grounded on the distributor housing and to the engine block. is your engine that of the flat cylinder head or does it have the valve-in-head version (like the older folks before called it balbinhed)

[miked]

check your wiring inside the distributor it might be grounded or open. the breaker points (contact points) should be free to make and break continuity to ground to energize and to deenergize the coil. the points are grounded on the distributor housing and to the engine block. is your engine that of the flat cylinder head or does it have the valve-in-head version (like the older folks before called it balbinhed)

valve in block (piston side by side with the valves, L-head config).

[jick.cejoco]

valve in block (piston side by side with the valves, L-head config).

nice you have a jeep mb. check the distributor with the wire feed disconnected, with the points open, there should be no continuity to ground. with the points closed, there should be zero ohms between the terminal and ground

[miked]

nice you have a jeep mb. check the distributor with the wire feed disconnected, with the points open, there should be no continuity to ground. with the points closed, there should be zero ohms between the terminal and ground

points seem good as per your suggested test...only that i'm having a jumpy reading on resistance. 9 - 15 ohms when points closed. infinite when opened.

[jick.cejoco]

points seem good as per your suggested test...only that i'm having a jumpy reading on resistance. 9 - 15 ohms when points closed. infinite when opened.

your points are probably burnt or pitted. you might be able to dress it by filing with ignition file or a narrow strip of sandpaper to even out the pits. check the pattern of the material transfer between the points. if the stationary point is gaining material, you have too low capacitance on the condenser and vice versa when you have too much capacitance

[Chinoi]

It's possible that high voltage was too weak or below 10kv due to shorted high voltage winding.
Pwede ma confirm kung weak nga hv winding ng ignition coil. Kabit ka ng spark plug sa hv cap ng ignition coil at lagyan ng ground wire yun spark plug.
Ikabit pa rin yun ballast resistor sa +ignition primary at lagyan ng wire yun -ign coil.. i-on ang ignition key at momentary dikit ng mabilis yun wire sa -ign coil sa - terminal ng battery or ground. Simulate nito yun connection ng contact point. Hwag matagal idikit baka lalo masira yun ignition coil. Dapat makita mo mag spark yun spark plug. Kung wala ay shorted na hv winding at insufficient yun high voltage nito para mag create ng spark.

Pag walang spark sa pagdikit ng ground wire ay may open circuit sa +side supply ng ignition coil. Sirang ignition switch, open ballast resistor or fuse.

[dr. d]

is your battery dead or dying?
how's your startik (starter solenoid)?
can you push-start it? if you can, then it's probably the starter/solenoid, or your battery is weak.
in old, electromechanical ignition systems as this, it is de riguer to clean and adjust all points: distributor contracts; spark plugs and their connectors. also, check all hi tension cables at baka namamasko na (christmas tree effect in the dark; means the cables are leaking current). and don't forget the contact point!
does your starter turn over the engine, but ignition doesn't catch? (rume-redondo ba ngunit ayaw tumuloy?)

[miked]

points also look good. no material transfer. spark plugs' color is normal.

starter cranks yet no spark at ignition. battery was recharged even if it was relatively new (about 1 year old) just to make sure.

only that ammeter shows no discharge when cranking (needle does not move). yet there is voltage downstream of the ammeter (from the switch up to the positive and negative terminal of the coil).

[jick.cejoco]

points also look good. no material transfer. spark plugs' color is normal.

starter cranks yet no spark at ignition. battery was recharged even if it was relatively new (about 1 year old) just to make sure.

only that ammeter shows no discharge when cranking (needle does not move). yet there is voltage downstream of the ammeter (from the switch up to the positive and negative terminal of the coil).

yet there is voltage downstream of the ammeter (from the switch up to the positive and negative terminal of the coil)



copy, there is voltage to the positive and negative terminals of the ignition coil. then, there is an open link between the ignition coil and the distributor and to ground. you car's problem is in the primary circuit. chec the voltae drops across the terminal 15 (positive side of the coil) and voltage drop across the negative side of the coil when the points open.

[miso_honi]

check for grounded points and points resitance to ground, chap