GM in trouble

[niky]

The Senate didn't kill the bailout out of hand. They just wanted the UAW to take a pay cut.

Now, you're bailing out a company. That company is in a heap of trouble... why? Because it's uncompetitive and not making money.

Why is it not making money?

1. People think the products are crap (50:50... some good products, but brand perception is terrible... this can be fixed with the introduction of the Globalized models Ford and GM have lined up).

2. People aren't buying the products. (no money, no credit, nothing we can do about that at the moment).

3. The cost-structure is incredibly BAD. UAW workers get $3-4 an hour more than their counterparts. That's a LOT of money on top of the other incentives...

Now the Senate ain't giving away money to a bad business... they want to make sure the business will survive to make use of that... so they want the workers to take a pay cut to bring their salaries down to the National standard.

---

So it's the Senate's fault? Nuh-uh... point the finger at the UAW. They've been screwing and sinking the big three for years. And now they've finally killed them. Good job, boys.

[uls]

kapal talaga ng mukha ng mga overpaid na union workers

babagsak na nga ang mga companies na pinapasukan nila,

ayaw pa nila tumulong sa pagtipid...

bawas sweldo lang ang hinihingi ng Republican senators

ayaw...

Know what?

the union workers just wish Obama would take over na

they wish sana January na

they know they would get more sympathy from democrats

[tidus1203]

^^I think ganun na nga plano ng UAW. They are stalling because they know Republicans won't agree to any bailout without a wage cut. But when Obama takes over the Democrats will be more powerful, and will also increase their seat in both the Congress and the Senate. Remember the union workers heavily supported Obama so Obama in a sense is obligated to bail them out under the same high cost labor. Hehehehe Peter Schiff might be right. The economy will stink so bad on Obama's watch that he won't even have a 2nd term

[uls]

ang taas pa naman ng expectations ng buong mundo kay Obama

[emanzano]

They just wanted the UAW to take a pay cut....


... point the finger at the UAW. They've been screwing and sinking the big three for years. And now they've finally killed them. Good job, boys.

If i were the UAW, i would take the paycut, provided that the executives take the same percentage paycut.

Now if i were the US Senate, I'll throw in lots of add'l conditions too... stockholders get no dividends for the next X years, moratorium on pricipal and interest payments for X years, no salary increases for X years, etc. Now, is the UAW and other stakeholders agreed to those conditions, i might consider ("consider" being the key term) giving them some bailout money.

Much much easier said than done.

We live in exciting times...

[AG4]

1. People think the products are crap (50:50... some good products, but brand perception is terrible... this can be fixed with the introduction of the Globalized models Ford and GM have lined up).(

Thats what Ford CEO Alan Mullally has been pushing for.
He has been with Ford for only 2 years and what surprised him when he stepped in as Ford's CEO was the number of regional/North American only models which he said was not efficient.
In September 2007 at Frankfurt, Ford announced that the Verve Concept (the all-new Fiesta) was going to be a true global model. The 2009 Fiesta will reach the US in early 2010.
By 2013 small and medium Ford models will be global.

Ford's biggest problem now is the auto parts suppliers for their current US models. If GM and Chrysler go down, they will most likely take the parts suppliers down with them.
70% of GM's parts suppliers also supply to Ford (according to CSM Worldwide Inc).
58% of GM's parts supplier and 65% of Ford's parts supplier also supply to Asian manufacturers.


GM bigest problem? Too many brands, in the US GM has 7 brands!
Non-US brands in the GM family, Saab, Opel/Vauxhall, Holden and Daewoo(GMDAT).

GM has some good models they're just spread out under different brands.
One of the few new models that migh save them is the compact Chevy Cruze.
The electric Chevy Volt is probably too expensive, so I doubt they could sell any of those if GM lasts long enough to build it.

Chrysler? After the cool 300C, it looks like they lost the motivation to make anything interesting. I hope someone buys Jeep, its probably the only Chrysler brand worth saving. Plan? I don't think they have a real plan at all.

[AG4]

If i were the UAW, i would take the paycut, provided that the executives take the same percentage paycut.

I guess those UAW guys think that losing their jobs is better than having a paycut.

[uls]

nag usap na sila

Wagoner Said to Confer With Paulson, Bolten on Rescue
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aJ5ckc2seT.g

Dec. 12 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner spoke today with White House Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson about a short-term rescue plan to keep the automaker solvent, a person familiar with the talks said.

GM Moves Closer to Bailout as Wagoner Holds Talks With Bolten
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...7UU&refer=home

GM Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner spoke by telephone with White House Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson about a short-term plan to keep the automaker solvent, a person familiar with the talks said.

[tidus1203]

Dope. Mukhang tuloy nga yung bailout na butata lang tayo for a day or two. Kinda like how the financial bailout first failed but with so many political pressure pumasa pa rin in th end... I wouldn't be surprised if another non-financial industry comes running for some TARP money. Perhaps retailers if spending really sag. And they will use the same excuse of job losses... And definitely the automakers are coming back for more. $15B is just too small...

[uls]

yep... other industries will also ask the Treasury to bail them out

If they allowed automakers access to the TARP funds, why shouldnt other businesses have access too?

BAILOUT NATION

[alainroyce]

Dope. Mukhang tuloy nga yung bailout na butata lang tayo for a day or two. Kinda like how the financial bailout first failed but with so many political pressure pumasa pa rin in th end... I wouldn't be surprised if another non-financial industry comes running for some TARP money. Perhaps retailers if spending really sag. And they will use the same excuse of job losses... And definitely the automakers are coming back for more. $15B is just too small...

Tuloy nga daw.. naka flash pa sa CNN...patay ang mga taxpayer nito.

[Monseratto]

Puso niyo Lolo...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DgraUoeDBg]12/12/2008 Peter Schiff: Will Washington Save Detroit?[/ame]

[eggman]

Wish ko lang matuloy na ang bailout sa GM t iba pang automakers para matapos na ang problema..

[uls]

It will cost the US govt billions of dollars every month just to keep the automakers alive

$14B will just keep them alive for a few weeks.

it's like supporting a bum

the bum doesnt make any money

but you have to feed the bum everyday

you have to spend your money feeding the bum, hoping one day the bum decides to look for a job, and finally be able to support himself

The US govt will be supporting the automakers until they will be able to sell cars, make money, and stand on their own.

How long will that take?

i'm sure it won't just take weeks

or months...

it will take years

[tidus1203]

Wish ko lang matuloy na ang bailout sa GM t iba pang automakers para matapos na ang problema..

Sorry po for the disagreement but I think that is a very short sighted view on the whole matter. The demise of inefficient companies in the long run will be better for the industry where only the strong remain.

[tidus1203]

*Monseratto

Ayos yang video na yan ah especially sa beginning. Trade your Dollars for Physical Assets before your dollars become worthless

[AG4]

Sorry po for the disagreement but I think that is a very short sighted view on the whole matter. The demise of inefficient companies in the long run will be better for the industry where only the strong remain.

You'd probably think the big 3's japanese competitors probably feel the same since they "might" enjoy bigger sales when GM, Chrysler etc go down...

..but even their competitors support them.
Big 3 rescue wins rivals' support

They may be unrelenting rivals of Detroit's Big Three, but foreign-based automakers don't relish the prospect that one or more of Detroit's automakers might go under.

On the contrary, the risk that one of the U.S. car companies could collapse deeply worries Asian and German manufacturers with U.S. factories.

As the industry's outlook has deteriorated in recent months, executives at foreign car companies have said they want to see Detroit's cash-strapped automakers get through the crisis, noting that they all share the same network of suppliers.

"We're joined at the hip with our Detroit brethren in manufacturing," said Irv Miller, group vice president and chief spokesman at Toyota Motor Corp.'s U.S. sales subsidiary. Whatever the U.S. government proposes to keep the U.S. automakers afloat, "we support it," Miller said.

In recent months, foreign automakers and parts suppliers have tried to work out contingency plans in the event of a collapse of one of Detroit's Big Three. But executives say they would not be able to shield themselves from the impact of an automaker's collapse because the number of distressed suppliers in North America already is in the hundreds.

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...TO01/812130355

There are many companies being compared to the auto industry, but you can see how much bigger this is. When the news broke out that the US auto bailout didn't push through the other day caused the Global Stock Market to sink!
Global stocks dive as rescue talks fail
http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/12/mark...ion=2008121204

I think the UAW is a bigger problem than the actual products of the big 3, because the US carmakers actually sell about as many cars as their foreign competitors, but they pay their UAW workers much more than the non-union workers of foreign carmakers.

PS: Most of the time, the media always mentions that the $14 billion bailout will go to the big 3, this amount is actually only going to GM and Chrysler.

The bill called for $14 billion to be divided between GM and Chrysler, both of which are at the financial breaking point as the recession and consumer credit crunch have crippled their finances.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...pStories_ssi_5

[AG4]

btw, sino ba may-ari ng dodge sa tatlo, i'm kinda eyeing the Dodge Nitro next year when the collapse happens. magmumura siguro ito car na ito

Dodge is part of Chrysler.

[tidus1203]

You'd probably think the big 3's japanese competitors probably feel the same since they "might" enjoy bigger sales when GM, Chrysler etc go down...

..but even their competitors support them.

Yeah because the short term shock will be massive...

[AG4]

Yeah because the short term shock will be massive...

...and thats all you need to make the "auto parts suppliers" that supply parts to both domestic and foreign automakers in the US go bankrupt.
No parts = no production = closing down the factories

In recent months, foreign automakers and parts suppliers have tried to work out contingency plans in the event of a collapse of one of Detroit's Big Three. But executives say they would not be able to shield themselves from the impact of an automaker's collapse because the number of distressed suppliers in North America already is in the hundreds.

- http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...TO01/812130355