rich, getting richer?

[jpdm]

Hmmm. I thought the whole idea of subsidies is to buoy up farmers so they don't go under because of the low prices. The prices are low to begin with due to overproduction with huge surplus in storage. American farms tend to be very productive.

What you're saying is quite different.

Yes. they are productive because the government is helping farmers (i.e. provision of agricultural inputs and infrastructures such as farm to market roads, dyers, mechanized farming, gmo etc.) Its a win-win situation. Farmers get favorable return of investments due to cheap costs (subsidized) of production. Consumers are gobbling up farm produce due to cheap prices.

Everybody wins. In the Philippines, wala ng tulong ang gobyerno, pinapatay pa farmers ng smuggling, poor or high transport costs, graft and corruption, kotong cops, at agricultural liberalization. Because Filipino farmers cannot earn a decent income, they end up penniless.

Karamihan sa mahihirap ay mga nasa rural countryside. lack of opportunity in rural areas forced them to more to cities. But because they are unskilled, they cannot find a suitable job in urban areas.

[theveed]

Says who? A lot of poor people do want to work... which is why government relocation and housing programs often fail, simply because there aren't enough employment opportunities near the housing programs to support the people who are moved there.

Tell that to all the women doing domestic labor locally, or to the men waiting in line for jobs at employment offices.

Nobody wants to be poor. Yes, there are lots of men who waste their lives drinking on the corners, or lounging on the streets, but they can only get away with that because they have wives who provide for them (Filipina Martyr Syndrome... ), but there are lots of poor people looking for a job... any job.

Rephrase... A lot of poor doesn't want to work... note that if one wants to work, they'll stick with it.

Then again, different side of the coin in terms of arguments....

[o10ciano]

its all begin when spaniards friars teach the malay race (filipino term is not yet invented during 15th to 17th century) about self destruction culture. buti na lang naka punta didto mga intsek,englatera, americano at hapon at may mga indio(local natives) namulat.

[jeffrocks]

Who says the gov't didn't help?kahit noong panahon ni Macoy,binigyan sila pagkakataon maka-loan para sa kanilang kabuhayan pero ano nangyari,binili ng mga tv,ref at kung ano-ano pa hanggang di na makabayad sa gobyerno,during Tita cory,land reform program, kaya nagalit mga haciendero dahil nabigyan ng lupa ang mga farmers etc etc...si ninoy pala may "Study now Pay later plan" di rin sila nagbabayad...gusto lahat na lang iaasa sa gov't,communism kapag ganyan,di lang naman sila ang mamayan d2,yung nagbabayad ng buwis,sila ang dahilan kaya gumagana ang gov't...pero meron din iba na kumakayod ng husto...yun iba pumapatay para lang mabuhay.

Education is the key...kahit saan magpunta dala2 natin ito...walang makakaagaw...

[torque2006]

1. i don't see giving subsidies to farmers as beneficial in the long-term, and i also don't agree with agrarian reform.

2. there are lots of ways of redistributing wealth, like taxes for example. sana lang napapatupad ng maayos taxation.

3. the main problem in the philippines is its ballooning population. yan ang dapat tutukan ng gobyerno. to hell with what the catholic church says. i understand their position, but we're all gonna die if we keep multiplying like rabbits. case in point: the government can never satisfy the demand for new public school buildings because of the population growth that we have.

[oldblue]

the rich when poor still portray themselves to be rich. that's their biggest secret. kumbaga hindi nyo namalayan naghirap pala si ganito pero todo porma pa din to the point na nakabawi na pala next time kayo nag-meet.

karamihan kasi, kapag nakaramdam ng konting hirap, nagsikip na ng sinturon. so the direction therefore, you become poorer than you think bec. the negative thoughts take over

[jpdm]

[quote=torque2006;871804]1. i don't see giving subsidies to farmers as beneficial in the long-term, and i also don't agree with agrarian reform.

I beg to disagree. Subsidies and agrarian reform.

These are the open secret of the success of EU, Japan and other First World countries. Feed their people and the backbone of their respective economies---the agricultural sector.

I suggest you read what Japan and Taiwan have done vis-a-vis land/agrarian reform.

Agrarian reform must be implemented. It empowers the masses in terms of giving them capital (land)that they can use for business.

Tsaka agrarian reform will correct the damage brought by hundred of years of colonial subjugation.

The conquistadors, American Yankees and their minions took away the lands from native Filipinos, dislocating majority of Filipinos...This dispossession process is still evident today.....

[Jun aka Pekto]

The conquistadors, American Yankees and their minions took away the lands from native Filipinos, dislocating majority of Filipinos...This dispossession process is still evident today.....

Are there large tracts of land owned by these foreigners and if so where? Show some examples.

[Jun aka Pekto]

Yes. they are productive because the government is helping farmers (i.e. provision of agricultural inputs and infrastructures such as farm to market roads, dyers, mechanized farming, gmo etc.)

These aren't even part of the subsidies. They're simply parts of the regular infrastructure and progression of technology. Regardless of subsidies or not, these will evolve on their own.

The farmers required bank loans to acquire these technologies. They apply the technology which result in more efficient farming. The problem is, they're so efficient there's a glut of their crops in the market which drives down prices. So now, the return in their investment isn't enough to repay the bank loans.

That's where the subsidies come in. The US government knows it's far worse for a farmer to quit because of the long-term effects. So, Uncle Sam subsidizes them by paying off their bank loans.

The market prices are directly related to the availability of a product. It's just like crude oil. When there's a huge glut, prices are low. When there's a shortfall, the prices are high.

I know what you're trying to get at. But, your cause and effects are a bit mixed up.

[empy]

rich get richer? since when is this news? it has been like this since the concepts of property ownership and economic activity were invented.

Are there large tracts of land owned by these foreigners and if so where? Show some examples.

baka circa 1800's yang balita niya :bwahaha: