gmelina or mahogany farming anyone?

[yebo]

I have planted about 500 mahogany tree 3 years ago. Ang problema, hindi basta magputol. Kelangan ng permit from DENR. Anyway, ang sabi ng provincial office ng DENR (Region I). Hindi pwedeng magputol! WTF. Hintayin kong lumaki-laki pa at makapagputol ng ilan. Malaman kung may kaso nga.

You made a classic mistake, thinking that since you planted it you can cut it. Big NO!

1. Before you even plant 1 seed of any tree, register your farm with the denr as a tree farm.
2. When you plant, take a picture BEFORE AND AFTER of the farm, from the same views. That means several pairs of befores and afters, proof irrevocable that the trees did not exist until you planted it.
3. Submit copies of the pictures to:
a. Barangay captain, who will issue a certification that you planted the seedlings.
b. DENR, who will issue a certification for the number of seedlings you planted. Note that you also need to submit the certificate issued by the barangay before the denr will issue this certificate.
4. You can not cut a tree you do not have a certificate for. Most importantly, if the tree is GENUINE MAHOGANY (not philippine lauan) you can not sell it if there is no cerificate! Your only possible buyers will be private individuals but never the big lumber companies. They need the certificate to transport the logs, then later to sell it, especially when selling it in the international market. There is a worldwide ban on forest cut mahogany, so no certificate no possibility to sell.
5. The prevailing price of real mahogany is $1850 per cubic meter. As i said in my first post, my estimates are in the super over pessimistic side. If you will do your own cutting, milling and drying you can expect to earn a bigger chunk of that $1850. But ONLY IF YOU DO THE PROPER PAPER WORK. So take the extra leg work, the extra patience, the extra expenditures.

[morningbliss]

You made a classic mistake, thinking that since you planted it you can cut it. Big NO!

1. Before you even plant 1 seed of any tree, register your farm with the denr as a tree farm.
2. When you plant, take a picture BEFORE AND AFTER of the farm, from the same views. That means several pairs of befores and afters, proof irrevocable that the trees did not exist until you planted it.
3. Submit copies of the pictures to:
a. Barangay captain, who will issue a certification that you planted the seedlings.
b. DENR, who will issue a certification for the number of seedlings you planted. Note that you also need to submit the certificate issued by the barangay before the denr will issue this certificate.
4. You can not cut a tree you do not have a certificate for. Most importantly, if the tree is GENUINE MAHOGANY (not philippine lauan) you can not sell it if there is no cerificate! Your only possible buyers will be private individuals but never the big lumber companies. They need the certificate to transport the logs, then later to sell it, especially when selling it in the international market. There is a worldwide ban on forest cut mahogany, so no certificate no possibility to sell.
5. The prevailing price of real mahogany is $1850 per cubic meter. As i said in my first post, my estimates are in the super over pessimistic side. If you will do your own cutting, milling and drying you can expect to earn a bigger chunk of that $1850. But ONLY IF YOU DO THE PROPER PAPER WORK. So take the extra leg work, the extra patience, the extra expenditures.

few questions sir yebo,
kahit ba private land agricultural property mo ung farm area, need pa implement ung items 1,2 and 3?

regarding sa mahogany type, mostly ng nakita kong malalaking plantations eh honduras/genuine mahogany ung tinatanim...eto ung current plan ko sana ung genuine itatanim ko..kaso dun sa Manila Seeds bank, panay philippine mahogany type ung binebenta nila..

sa farm nyo ba sir, philippine mahogany ang tinanim nyo?san po kau bumili ng mga seeds nyo for gmelina at mahogany?

share ko lang based sa info from Manila seeds bank, ung availability ng philippine mahogany seeds ay from december to january...most viable period daw...then ung sa gmelina seeds eh dna raw maganda ang viability through december ksi i think june july ata ung seeds...

[yebo]

Morningbliss,

wala pa ako farm, still doing all the research so that i do not make too many costly mistakes when i start next year. Gusto ko kasi well planned lahat. Also i am in the process of preparing my funding for the project. But i will definitely start early 2014.

yes for 1, 2, 3. Walang lusot e, it is the law. You need 1, 2, 3 when the time comes that you will cut, transport, saw, sell, ship, etc. Kahit di ikaw ang gagawa nyan, let's say pagbibili mo yung trees standing, di ka papansinin ng lumber companies kung wala ka certification. Imagine mo nasa trucks na yung timber, then it gets stopped at a check point, ano ipapakita nila na legal yung kargada nila na timber? Pag walang certification then the government can and will confiscate the timber or lumber and there is nothing you can do about it after. Kahit magdasal ka pa sa supreme court di mo na mababawi yung naconfiscate na timber or lumber pag wala ka certificate. Even in the international mahogany market they need proof of origin if you are going to sell your mahogany.

Di na talaga nagtitinda ng genuine mahogany ang seedling bank for reasons of promoting philippine local varieties. Isa ang genuine mahogany sa foreign species na identified ng mga ogags na activists eh. So you can only get the seeds from existing tree farms.

kung philippine mahogany ang itatanim mo then expect to be disappointed with results. Philippine mahogany is LAUAN, not really high value. Nasa P140 per board feet lang yan RETAIL, PAANO PA KAYA PAG FARM GATE, OR STANDING TIMBER?

[morningbliss]

Morningbliss,

wala pa ako farm, still doing all the research so that i do not make too many costly mistakes when i start next year. Gusto ko kasi well planned lahat. Also i am in the process of preparing my funding for the project. But i will definitely start early 2014.

yes for 1, 2, 3. Walang lusot e, it is the law. You need 1, 2, 3 when the time comes that you will cut, transport, saw, sell, ship, etc. Kahit di ikaw ang gagawa nyan, let's say pagbibili mo yung trees standing, di ka papansinin ng lumber companies kung wala ka certification. Imagine mo nasa trucks na yung timber, then it gets stopped at a check point, ano ipapakita nila na legal yung kargada nila na timber? Pag walang certification then the government can and will confiscate the timber or lumber and there is nothing you can do about it after. Kahit magdasal ka pa sa supreme court di mo na mababawi yung naconfiscate na timber or lumber pag wala ka certificate. Even in the international mahogany market they need proof of origin if you are going to sell your mahogany.

Di na talaga nagtitinda ng genuine mahogany ang seedling bank for reasons of promoting philippine local varieties. Isa ang genuine mahogany sa foreign species na identified ng mga ogags na activists eh. So you can only get the seeds from existing tree farms.

kung philippine mahogany ang itatanim mo then expect to be disappointed with results. Philippine mahogany is LAUAN, not really high value. Nasa P140 per board feet lang yan RETAIL, PAANO PA KAYA PAG FARM GATE, OR STANDING TIMBER?

ok sir salamat sa critical info nyo on 1,2 and 3..legally sensible naman

oo nga eh..naghahanap nga ako ng sources ng seeds..sabi 1kilo ng mahogany around 1600 seeds!dami na pala..uwi me ng pinas december kaya nagreresearch na ako san pwede bumili ng honduras mahogany seeds..ung sa gmelina daw kasi eh meron pa naman kaso parang nasa end na ng viability stage around 6th month...ung gmelina tree naman is native sa pinas diba?sa lugar kasi naman merong 100hectare plantation ng gmelina...naisip ko baka pwedeng bumili ng seeds dun..

if may info ka sir ng bilihan ng honduras mahogany seeds, timbrehan mo naman ako...
may farm lot napo ba kaung nakuha?ilang hectares?
may business plan na din ba kau? thanks

[confused shoes]

You made a classic mistake, thinking that since you planted it you can cut it. Big NO!

1. Before you even plant 1 seed of any tree, register your farm with the denr as a tree farm.
2. When you plant, take a picture BEFORE AND AFTER of the farm, from the same views. That means several pairs of befores and afters, proof irrevocable that the trees did not exist until you planted it.
3. Submit copies of the pictures to:
a. Barangay captain, who will issue a certification that you planted the seedlings.
b. DENR, who will issue a certification for the number of seedlings you planted. Note that you also need to submit the certificate issued by the barangay before the denr will issue this certificate.
4. You can not cut a tree you do not have a certificate for. Most importantly, if the tree is GENUINE MAHOGANY (not philippine lauan) you can not sell it if there is no cerificate! Your only possible buyers will be private individuals but never the big lumber companies. They need the certificate to transport the logs, then later to sell it, especially when selling it in the international market. There is a worldwide ban on forest cut mahogany, so no certificate no possibility to sell.
5. The prevailing price of real mahogany is $1850 per cubic meter. As i said in my first post, my estimates are in the super over pessimistic side. If you will do your own cutting, milling and drying you can expect to earn a bigger chunk of that $1850. But ONLY IF YOU DO THE PROPER PAPER WORK. So take the extra leg work, the extra patience, the extra expenditures.

Actually, di pa naitatanim ang mga seedling, nakausap ko na DENR. So I asked for options na pwedeng gawin na gaya ng sinasabi mo. Ang respond sa akin, di daw talaga pwedeng magputol. I don't know kung meron nga options nga o wala. O baka di nya lang alam.

So nariyan na rin lang yung mga seedlings, pinatanim ko na sa mga estudyante as tree planting program nila but in my property. Siguro, ibenta ko na lang ang land later or just leave the trees standing, para pamugaran na lang ng mga uwak, hehe. Anyway, di naman ako gumastos ng malaki except sa land na tinayuan which is a step hillside.

Meron din mga mangoes na fruiting na malapit. Siguro mga 30 trees din.

[yebo]

Gmelina is native to india. nagdadalawang isip ako sa gmelina because some say it leaves the land acidic.

I am planning to buy 2 lots of 8.7 and 8.5 hectares. I am still checking.

[morningbliss]

Gmelina is native to india. nagdadalawang isip ako sa gmelina because some say it leaves the land acidic.

I am planning to buy 2 lots of 8.7 and 8.5 hectares. I am still checking.

ah ganun ba? need to research tungkol dyan sa acidic issues ng gmelina...1 advantage lang kasi is mas earlier ung ROI at sabi nila comparable ung price...not sure wala pang figures to compare ung dalawa..

magkano na bentahan sa inyo now ng farm lots? narealize ko nga din na bawal magkaroon ng isang title na more than 5hectares, kundi masasakop cya sa CARP...so malamang gagawin mo multiple titles?

by the way, naresearch mo na ba ung soil type optimum sa growth ng mahogany? nagpa soil test kaba?
check mo ung geohazard map..very informative..papakita ung elevation, landslide, flood, at fault lines...

[morningbliss]

Gmelina is native to india. nagdadalawang isip ako sa gmelina because some say it leaves the land acidic.

I am planning to buy 2 lots of 8.7 and 8.5 hectares. I am still checking.

ask ko nga pala sir, magkano ung bentahan sa inyo ng farm lots per SQM?

[morningbliss]

san part ng philippines mo gus2 ilagay ung farms mo sir yebo?

[yebo]

another share: gmelina boom, farmers doom...good read

http://espace.library.uq.edu.au/eser...ions_FINAL.pdf

Nabasa ko na to before, another reason why i am only considering gmelina as "paningit", and only if i can find a steady market. They do sell gmelina lumber at wilcon builders. I'll check also with matimco if they buy gmelina timber.

[Syuryuken]

Nabasa ko na to before, another reason why i am only considering gmelina as "paningit", and only if i can find a steady market. They do sell gmelina lumber at wilcon builders. I'll check also with matimco if they buy gmelina timber.

bro hindi mo pwedeng singitan ang gmelina papatayin lang ang katabi niya. pag binenta mo naman hindi per board feet kukunin sayo kundi per hectare bibilhin ang puno mo (kung ilang ektarya yung tinaniman mo yun ang pepresyuhan ng buyer) sila na rin ang bahalang mag harvest.

[yebo]

bro hindi mo pwedeng singitan ang gmelina papatayin lang ang katabi niya. pag binenta mo naman hindi per board feet kukunin sayo kundi per hectare bibilhin ang puno mo (kung ilang ektarya yung tinaniman mo yun ang pepresyuhan ng buyer) sila na rin ang bahalang mag harvest.

Sir di ko isisingit sa gitna ng mahogany, it will be planted separately, mga 5 hectares if i have 15-20 hectares of land. What i mean by paningit is in between years before the mahogany harvest. So since 15 years ang harvest ng mahogany and gmelina is 5 years then 2 harvests of gmelina can be made, paningit na income while waiting for the mahogany. Sorry for the confusion.

[morningbliss]

bro hindi mo pwedeng singitan ang gmelina papatayin lang ang katabi niya. pag binenta mo naman hindi per board feet kukunin sayo kundi per hectare bibilhin ang puno mo (kung ilang ektarya yung tinaniman mo yun ang pepresyuhan ng buyer) sila na rin ang bahalang mag harvest.

yan ba ang standard buy and sell ng gmelina ngayon sir? magkano ang per hectare ngayon at ano ung spacing nung per hectare nila kasi ung no. of trees mag iiba...parang unfair sa tingin ko pag ganun...

[Syuryuken]

yan ba ang standard buy and sell ng gmelina ngayon sir? magkano ang per hectare ngayon at ano ung spacing nung per hectare nila kasi ung no. of trees mag iiba...parang unfair sa tingin ko pag ganun...

dito sa amin bro ganyan na ang kalakaran kahit maliit pa yung puno napresyuhan na yung ibang buyer sila na rin ang bahala sa maintenance kumbaga yung pagtatanim mo lang ang naging gastos mo.

[chrismarte]

How about mushrooms under the trees? My father and i made a mushroom bed years ago, just for home use, and we ended up supplying mushrooms to our neighbors for weeks just from a 2 square meter bed!

chief yebo, ano binhi nang mushroom?

[morningbliss]

dito sa amin bro ganyan na ang kalakaran kahit maliit pa yung puno napresyuhan na yung ibang buyer sila na rin ang bahala sa maintenance kumbaga yung pagtatanim mo lang ang naging gastos mo.

ah ganun ba...ano ung spacing nyo sa gmelina at magkano ung per hectare dun sa sinasabi ninyong kalakaran sa inyo sir?

[ghost recon]

bro hindi mo pwedeng singitan ang gmelina papatayin lang ang katabi niya. pag binenta mo naman hindi per board feet kukunin sayo kundi per hectare bibilhin ang puno mo (kung ilang ektarya yung tinaniman mo yun ang pepresyuhan ng buyer) sila na rin ang bahalang mag harvest.

actually pwede rin per boardfoot ibenta ang gmelina mas malaki pa ang kita. nauso kasi yang per hectare kasi pag pinuputol ng buyer gulong-gulong na lang dahil ginagawang crates or paleta..meron pa nga per kilo.

[morningbliss]

Nabasa ko na to before, another reason why i am only considering gmelina as "paningit", and only if i can find a steady market. They do sell gmelina lumber at wilcon builders. I'll check also with matimco if they buy gmelina timber.

ah ok sir...pero sakin malamang mas malaki ung concentration ng mahogany...un nga lang ung timetrame mas mabilis ung sa gmelina pero market risk ok ung gmelina..kaya sakin tulad mo paningit lang para may pantawid pera kumbaga habang aantayin ung maturity ng mahogany.

[morningbliss]

i've been thinking lately on where to invest long term (besides stocks market). as i do not have much business acumen like some guys here (nakakainggit naman kayo!) and also do not have the time to look after the business full time (OFW) i prefer something that i (used to) know and like to do. i have been looking for some farm land for tree farming, of either gmelina (paper tree) or mahogany. the gemelina will be for medium term income (5-7 years) while the mahogany for retirement (15+ years). as per the research i've done so far, gmelina can be sold for 1.5-2k per tree after 5 years, and the mahogany around 10k-15k per tree after 15 years (price varies on location, lower where there is illegal logging).

i'm doing my computations on the over pessimistic side, lower end less 20%, so that will be 1.2k/tree for gmelina and 8k/tree for mahogany. sobrang pessimistic ba? at the spacing of 1.5 meters for gmelina and 2.5 meters for mahogany, and basing on a square planting pattern (less efficient) as against a hexagonal pattern (more efficient) to compensate for tree loss due to thinning/stunted growth/desease/typhoons (again very pessimistic at only 50+% survival rate), that's 4,400 trees/heactare for gmelina and 1600 trees/hectare for mahogany. (note: tree density increases by a factor of almost 2 using a hexagonal pattern). yield for gmelina after 5-7 years (again, pessimistic so 7 years) = 5.28M/hectare. for mahogany it's 12.8M/hectare after 15 years. i intend to plant 5 hectares to gmelina and 10 hectares to mahogany.

price per hectare is 225-250k at the location i'm targetting (in central luzon, no illegal logging, no NPA). i will start from seeds (not seedlings, i do have the time to plant seeds) so that means minimal expense. i will also be using chicken manure for fertilizer, which i had been told is necessary if the trees are planted on low grade soil (but i will be buying land good enough for vegetables). my estimate is 300k/hectare innitial investment (land, seeds, labor) for both gmelina and mahogany plus additional 20k/year/hectare. for 7 years, total investment on the 5 hectare plot planted to gmelina will be 2.2M, yield estimate is 26M. for the 10 hectare planted to mahogany, 15 years total investment will be 6M, and yield estimate is 128M.

would you consider this a good venture? is anyone here into tree farming? please try very hard to discourage me

sir yebo, parang di kasi aabot sa 100% more trees ang accomodate ng hexa vs square...pag cocompute mo, around 15% more lang po ung advantage...below is ung quote nung nakita ko sa link na eto, Horticulture :: Orchard Management


"b) Alternate row planting pattern
3. Hexagonal System: In this method, the trees are planted in each comer of an equilateral triangle. This way six trees form a hexagon with the seventh tree in the centre. Therefore this system is also called as 'septule' as a seventh tree is accommodated in the centre of hexagon. This system provides equal spacing but it is difficult to layout. The perpendicular distance between any two adjacent rows is equal to the product of 0.866 x the distance between any two trees. As the perpendicular distance between any two row is less than unity, this system accommodates 15% more trees than the square system. The limitations of this system are that it is difficult to layout and the cultivation is not so easily done as in the square system."

[Lew_Alcindor]

Havent read all of the posg here. ButId rather invest in high value crops rather than plant trees that requires approval from denr. Alam mo mo naman kalakaran sa gobyerno.

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