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  1. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    13,415
    #11
    hold on a sec po...

    OZONE machine is different from IONIZER machines.

    Please don't confuse the two.

    Ozonators or ozone fogging machines produce O3 gas by adding a single molecule of oxide into our air (O2). Since organic matter doesn't survive in an O3 environment, organic odors are eliminated. The car is usually sealed when the ozonator is ran, then it needs to air out before anyone can enter the sealed premises. Ozonators are NOT harmful if no body is present when the machine is ran.

    Ionizer simply releases a negative ions that attract itself to positive odor ions, thereby cancelling each other and removing the odor. This is TOTALLY harmless. It's being used extensively in hospitals, hotels, bars/clubs, etc. Go to the billiard hall in Rockwell, they have a big one there.

    http://www.djclarke.co.uk/file08.html

  2. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    6,796
    #12
    aaarrrggg..i dunno wat to believe...BACK TO ULING!!!!!

  3. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    10,820
    #13
    WRONG theveed.

    ionizers are ozonisers. it's a marketing ploy because of the warning given by the different US government agencies on the harmful effects of breathing ozone. ozone is also considered a dangerous pollutant at lower atmospheres. that is why they changed the name of those products from ozoniser to ionizer, for marketing in the 3rd world like the philippines.

    there are 2 ways to produce ozone. one way is to have an electric discharge between 2 metal plates and the resulting electric arc dissociates O2. the two free O atoms then combine with two O2 molecules to form two O3 molecules. another way is to use ultraviolet light at 180 nanometers (that is, use a mercury discharge lamp and pass the light through a quartz filter). the UV light dissociates O2 and the same reaction described above takes place.

    the ionizer/ozoniser designed for cars use the 1st method, by electric arc discharge.

    tama ka, it's perfectly ok to use IF there is no one in the space when the ozoniser is in use. AND the space must be ventilated to evacuate the ozone before it is occupied again. most ozonisers/ionizers ouput on the average 0.28ppm (or 280 parts per billion), the safe level is only 0.05ppm (or 50 parts per billion).

    hospitals use UV-C light for disinfecting, which is basically the same UV mercury vapor discharge lamp BUT WITHOUT THE QUARTZ FILTER. this has a narrow band of 257 nanometers and does not produce ozone. (ozonizing UV-C lamps with the quarts filter produce both 180 and 257 nanometer wavelength light.) do the research if you don't believe me.

  4. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    5,235
    #14
    hmmm. ganyan ata yun nasa patrol ko. Honeywell ang brand. may wires that ran the length left to right and back to front, then may small fan sa likod. may amoy sunog na monitor nga and produces a faint sound. i turn it on only hen there are no occupants. off ko pag naka sakay na ako. eto ba yun, yebo?

  5. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    13,415
    #15
    Im sorry Yebo, but I don't mean to start a debate, but most of the hotel maintenance equipment that I have grabbed my hands on have separate ionizers and ozone machines.

    Yes there are combo ionizer/ozone makers around, but AFAIK, it's not the same...

    Yes, i've read around, and so far, the first three pages of this search from Yahoo

    http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=ion...t&cop=mss&tab=

    ... yielded a conclusion that one is not the same as the other. Though there are products that combine both their fuctions in one machine.

    Why do I bother researching it? We've been shopping for an ozone machine for quite some time, most of the retailers in the US and Austrailia that I've talked to offers me separate choices for each product. Prices vary a lot as well.

    As stated by the article's heading, it's not safe for occupied spaces. I have yet to find an ozone machine not warning people to stay clear of the enclosed space while the machine is functioning.

    It is quite clear that after the use of an O3 machine, a hepa filtered vac must be used to collect the spores. Otherwise it's useless. That's why I've told several people that those cigarette lighter ionizer things don't work and most "good" ionizers contains a hepa filter with the device.

    A lot of companies advertise ozone machines as air purifiers/cleaners, it's a misleading concept. It's more of a mold killer and odor reducer than a cleaner. A vac is still needed to complete the cleaning process.

    This is an exceprt from the EPA itself cautioning people not to blindly use ozone generators and suggest the following instead:

    What Other Methods Can Be Used to Control Indoor Air Pollution?
    The three most common approaches to reducing indoor air pollution, in order of effectiveness, are:

    Source Control: Eliminate or control the sources of pollution;
    Ventilation: Dilute and exhaust pollutants through outdoor air ventilation, and
    Air Cleaning: Remove pollutants through proven air cleaning methods.
    Of the three, the first approach -- source control -- is the most effective. This involves minimizing the use of products and materials that cause indoor pollution, employing good hygiene practices to minimize biological contaminants (including the control of humidity and moisture, and occasional cleaning and disinfection of wet or moist surfaces), and using good housekeeping practices to control particles.

    The second approach -- outdoor air ventilation -- is also effective and commonly employed. Ventilation methods include installing an exhaust fan close to the source of contaminants, increasing outdoor air flows in mechanical ventilation systems, and opening windows, especially when pollutant sources are in use.

    The third approach -- air cleaning -- is not generally regarded as sufficient in itself, but is sometimes used to supplement source control and ventilation. Air filters, electronic particle air cleaners and ionizers are often used to remove airborne particles, and gas adsorbing material is sometimes used to remove gaseous contaminants when source control and ventilation are inadequate.


    LungUSA.org certainly recommends ionizers and not ozonators.

    You're right about not using such devices (especially cheap knockoff devices like the cig-lighter type) in an enclosed environment like a car. But I don't think it's correct to tag the machine as a health hazard if proper knowledge and precautions are used.

    I don't sell these devices, so I'm just giving my 2c about it... Don't take it personal

  6. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    1,477
    #16
    ano na ba talaga? dun sa link na napost ni theveed re: ionizers http://www.djclarke.co.uk/file08.html

    it says this:
    "A very important point to be aware of: A badly designed ionizer may produce ozone, and with it nitrous oxide. "


    i guess those china made cigarette lighter stick types and this one i bought would probably fall under this category?




    it just says on the package na "air cleaner" may amoy sunog din when you turn it on tapos pag silipin mo yung mga butas parang may electric spark na blue.

    sayang din bili ko for 520 pesos di naman sure if it does produce ozone. oh well i removed it after reading this thread. proper maintenance na lang ng interior gagawin ko.
    Last edited by Supierreman; July 4th, 2004 at 07:02 PM.

  7. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    10,820
    #17
    ok i'll submit to what theveed says that not all ionizers produce ozone. the problem arose from some confusion on my post. i was referring to those devices for cars. theveed, i see now, was referring to ionizers for homes which use another process. i stand corrected on the part that ionizers and ozonisers are all the same, they are not.

    but if one really want to tell what ozone smells like, then i suggest you get one of those 220V-6v transformers (yung adaptors of most electronic toys). dismantle it, that is disconnect the wire to the transformer so that there are no diodes and capacitors attached to the transformer. connect the 220v input leads to 2 pieces of wire positioned close together. then this time connect the output (6v) to a battery source. it does not matter if it's only 1.5 volts basta dc source. then break the dc circuit, that is, connect mo both leads sa battery then open mo yung circuit by removing one lead to the battery (this is basically how the distributor in car engines produce a spark). there will be a spark on the 220v lines that are positioned close together. smell it, that is ozone. if you smell the same thing from the device in your car then it is producing ozone.

    theveed, we're not debating. we're just discussing here. and no, i never take anything in this forum personally
    Last edited by yebo; July 4th, 2004 at 07:40 PM.

  8. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    21,301
    #18


    ganyan din yung ginagamit ko, pero parang wala naman effect.
    Signature

  9. Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    1,182
    #19
    kinabahan nga ako doon kasi, sometimes we use ionizers (hepafilter) for our room at home. and its from the USA where there are lots of approving agencies like the EPA...

    so what is the real score?

  10. Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    10,603
    #20
    Anyone here who can point me to the distributor of Zeolite?

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use of ozonisers/ionizers in your car is unsafe for you