Scam Fuel saving devices old and new

**dvldoc** · April 28th, 2008 05:33 PM

Here is a good link I came across it has all the fuel saving devices old and new. You would be amazed how people have brought back many of these old devices as new inventions. They didn't work back then and they don't work now. Even some very crude and backwards and poor attempts at water injection are in here.

Some of the devices will look very familiar to you even though some are 20 and 30 years old people just keep bringing them back to make a few bucks. Some do have minor and I mean minor gains but nothing you would spend money on.

Some of these will look very familar

These were all tested by the EPA in the US.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/reports.htm

**jacorb_88** · June 17th, 2008 04:21 PM

dvldoc,

with fast rising price of fuel, you cannot blame people from being skeptic on promises being made by a lot of manufacturers of fuel saving 'gadgets'. with you being one of the manufacturers and i being one of the skeptics, i have to be candid before i spent hard earned money on something i am quite sure of. how does the other water-alcohol injection gadgets in the epa report you provided be different from yours?

i have called speedlab but was not able to talk to technical resource person on the kit and their services.

would the savings on fuel be offset by additional cost of methanol?

what would happen if your tank gets emptied? will it still feed air to the intake?

as i understand, the installation is straight-forward. is there any procedures on how to tune it to get optimum setting for best performance?

assuming for some reason the kit malfunctions due to shelf-life on one part, is there a way to totally deactivate it without disassembling the whole kit?

pardon for the stupid question, will the water not cause rusting on the internal parts?

if this theory dates back wwii, how come the car manufacturers never made this as an OEM considering the cost can get easily be incorporated in their pricing? and it will be a good marketing slogan as well? fuel savings and eco-friendlier car... it'll be a good catch.

did you offer your gadget for epa testing? if so, can you share the results similar to what you have provided for other gadgets as well. if not, why so?

philippines has one of the worst diesel supplies which contributes to not-so-pleasant exhausts. more than fuel savings, i would like my ride to be more eco-friendly. so, i am really considering this on my ride. your help will be highly appreciated.

**ghosthunter** · June 17th, 2008 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by jacorb_88

as i understand, the installation is straight-forward. is there any procedures on how to tune it to get optimum setting for best performance?

well, a dyno tuning session to find which nozzle size works best for your engine would do the trick.

assuming for some reason the kit malfunctions due to shelf-life on one part, is there a way to totally deactivate it without disassembling the whole kit?

You can have a switch fitted to turn off the system. I am planning to have such a switch installed. Currently, I disable the system via removing the fuse.

The injection system works well with turbo charged engines (gasoline or diesel). But for N/A engines, the gains are much lower.

**dvldoc** · June 18th, 2008 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by jacorb_88

dvldoc,

with fast rising price of fuel, you cannot blame people from being skeptic on promises being made by a lot of manufacturers of fuel saving 'gadgets'. with you being one of the manufacturers and i being one of the skeptics, i have to be candid before i spent hard earned money on something i am quite sure of. how does the other water-alcohol injection gadgets in the epa report you provided be different from yours?

i have called speedlab but was not able to talk to technical resource person on the kit and their services.

would the savings on fuel be offset by additional cost of methanol?

what would happen if your tank gets emptied? will it still feed air to the intake?

as i understand, the installation is straight-forward. is there any procedures on how to tune it to get optimum setting for best performance?

assuming for some reason the kit malfunctions due to shelf-life on one part, is there a way to totally deactivate it without disassembling the whole kit?

pardon for the stupid question, will the water not cause rusting on the internal parts?

if this theory dates back wwii, how come the car manufacturers never made this as an OEM considering the cost can get easily be incorporated in their pricing? and it will be a good marketing slogan as well? fuel savings and eco-friendlier car... it'll be a good catch.

did you offer your gadget for epa testing? if so, can you share the results similar to what you have provided for other gadgets as well. if not, why so?

philippines has one of the worst diesel supplies which contributes to not-so-pleasant exhausts. more than fuel savings, i would like my ride to be more eco-friendly. so, i am really considering this on my ride. your help will be highly appreciated.

You don't have to use much alcohol for the kit, 5% is more than enough, You will still make more power with just water with the system and get better fuel economy especially from 1400 to 1500 rpms. You can use any alcohol, Iso, Ethyl, Denatured, methanol, Gin Vodka, Windshield washer fluid has long been a favorite and is what I pretty much use,heck you can pour your left over san mig from a party in there and it's going to work. You just get the monster power gains using higher consentrations of alcohol. Not everyone needs 40hp or 70hp gains.

If you run the system dry and suck air it will be stopped by the check valve simply because the pump cannot clear air pass the check valve. The pump will most likely out live your car, All the hard parts will out live your car, The hose that comes with the kit will outlive every hose and belt on your vehicle. The pressure switch will also outlive your car, (rated at 3 million cycles) The pump is rated at 1 million cycles, The fittings will never rust, corrode ect because they are nickel plated brass and will look as good 10 years from now as they did the day you installed it.

This is a problem you really will not have to worry about if you mind you tank level. And the fact that Speedlab ordered our liquid level switches that will be installed with the kit. Once your tank gets low the system will simply de-activate.

You should really read the thread about alcohol injection use. And no it does not cause rusting to interal parts,

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...myth-1325.html

Did you know water is produced everytime you turn your engine on? It's part of the internal combustion process.

For about every gallon of diesel or petro burned a gallon of water is made, just a simple fact most people don't know.

There is no cleaner engine than a water/alcohol injected one period, There is little to no carbon buildup on your internals and they stay looking like new. Intakes remain almost spotless on the inside, This is a proven fact.

I just put up some good pics to show the difference on this post.

http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showt...t=48442&page=8

Some technical facts, It's just not for power and more KPL it extends your engine live dramatically

a. Injection of fine fog of water/methanol solution into the intake tract to reduce compression work—additionally the formation of steam in this also cleanses coking and injector deposits as well as carbon buildup.

b. Injection of fine fog of water/methanol + nonionic surfactant pre-turbocompressor to:

i. *Possibly, under certain conditions—reduce compression work and keep the turbo nearer to the Buchi point (if mapped properly)—in theory the turbo moves more mass of air per unit of time, which is ALL that matters, not boost.

ii. Aid in intercooling by effectively acting as a phase-change intercooling system.

iii. Keep entire intake clean of oil/crud.
iv. By cooling the IAT sensor, the ECU is better able to adapt to the true intake air temperature and pressure—thus preserving “correct” timing for the actual conditions.

Benefits of intake tract injection (with caveat that you don’t get overly aggressive/greedy for power with too much methanol!):
ü Reduces peak cylinder temperatures 100-175 degrees C, thus reducing NOx.
ü Reduces peak cylinder pressures substantially, preserving head gaskets in tuned Tdi’s.
ü Reduces compression work by phase change (latent heat of vaporization.)
ü Steam cleans cylinders, pistons, nozzles, etcetera.

The N/A non high compression engines there would benefit very little unless tuning was done with things like raising the timing ect if power and fuel savings is what your looking for, But killing heat soak and getting all the other benefits of the system as show above are still well worth it. If your going to spend 500,000p for a new car you should protect it. And it will drive smoother and better than stock.

For turbo diesels with 2.5L or less engines a D02 (2GPH /163ml min) nozzle is the size that gives you a good compromise between power and consumption. 2.5L and up DO2 or DO3 will do the job for you as well. In the PI it's pretty easy the majority of the vehicles take the D02 nozzle and can use the D03 if they want more power.

This vehicle is tuned, Unfortuatly you guys really don't have the high HP cars like we do in the states for the N/A cars for much bigger gains.

if this theory dates back wwii, how come the car manufacturers never made this as an OEM considering the cost can get easily be incorporated in their pricing? and it will be a good marketing slogan as well? fuel savings and eco-friendlier car... it'll be a good catch.

Why, They actually did, GM, Sabb, Chrysler, good old Enzo himself made some with it strait from the factory as well. Look up the Sabb 900 or Buick Grand National. You want to know why it's not popular with mass production cars.

Number one reason is people are lazy, It's one more thing that needs to be filled up and that's the downside to the marketing of of as a factory option. Now people who like the benefits will have no problems filling up the tank. This is why intercoolers were made larger and turbos more efficient. Unfortuatly the vehicles there did not follow suit. Your vehicles have some of the worst intercoolers and most in-efficient turbos out there especially for the vehicles size and weight. Put that with the hot climate and it makes water/alcohol injection your best option.

did you offer your gadget for epa testing? if so, can you share the results similar to what you have provided for other gadgets as well. if not, why so?

Of course not because it's pointess, There are hundreds of studies done on the emission reductions of water/alcohol injection already, From NASA, The US military, Pentagon, to the Department of Transportation to many universities in the US, to universities and goverment agencies world wide. Like stated it's not new.

And it is not a gadget, It is a system of parts that is designed to deliver the precise amount of water/alcohol injection at a precise time for a given vehicle.

A few examples there are hundreds to pick from on the net. It's a proven process so that's why there is no need to have it evaluated anymore. It's been done time and time again.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/TDC/publication/...200/14272e.pdf
http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/reports/20...002-211978.pdf
http://www.energy.ca.gov/afvs/clean_diesel.html
http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~rutla...00-01-2938.pdf
http://www.marad.dot.gov/nmrec/energ...t%20Canada.pdf
http://www.stormingmedia.us/91/9123/A912363.html
http://www.cimac.com/cimac_cms/uploa...ions_Sep99.pdf

And unlike scam devices sold out there, We have a full time techicle forum on our site as well to answer all your questions as well as a real warranty on our products. You won't find a unhappy customer in the Philippines with the kit installed on their vehicle. For the most part we understate the gains you will see on turbo diesels. And that's who we are really marketing to in the Philippines.

**jacorb_88** · June 18th, 2008 07:07 PM

thanks ghosthunter, dvldoc.

mine is pajero fieldmaster 2.8 (blister fender). what would be the best nozzle fit to maximize KPL gain?

I'm totally into it. Just spoke with speedlab as well. Accdg to them, kits will arrive in 1.5 months.

**dvldoc** · June 19th, 2008 03:50 AM

DO3 for max power, all kits come with D02 and DO3 nozzles plus they have assorted sizes in stock.

**artlynn** · August 20th, 2008 07:07 PM

Ano suggestion nyo para mas makatipid po ako sa Diesel? and ride ko eh sportivo 2007.
Saan ako makakabili?
paki email ako sa artlynn_pagatpatan*yahoo.com

Ano comment nyo sa airvortex?

Thanks.....

**1D4LV** · August 20th, 2008 08:16 PM

^^ matipid na ang sportivo ah... ilang ba actual FC mo?
airvortex? yan ba yung binebenta nung ***y na ex-actress tsaka yung fake na lawyer? hoax yun....

**wildthing** · August 21st, 2008 04:10 AM

OT: the above dyno test have shown POWER gains but did it show fuel use reduction?

BTT: Can we classify a device that improves power gains but does not show fuel use reduction/savings as a "Scam Fuel saving device" too?