Electric Hybrid Conversion for FWD cars

[ghosthunter]

Some years ago I made an initial study in the costing and feasibility for making a "kit" to convert a standard FWD car into a basic electric hybrid car consisting of two in-hub electric motor/generators, a power controller and some batteries.

The aim was to replace the rear drum brakes with 15hp to 25hp electric motors powered by the battery pack and controlled by some electronics to do progressive power delivery, regenerative braking and even full electric mode with the engine tuned off. The vehicle of choice then was the Corolla AE89. Conversion cost target was P120k to P150K without labor. Unfortunately the materials then exceeded the target cost so it was shelved.

I am just wondering about something like this would be feasible today and would there be anyone interested to have their car converted into an electric hybrid vehicle for around P150K to P180k?

[niky]

Have you priced the motors and battery yet? And what's the target weight for the build?

[ghosthunter]

If I remember my previous study... pancake hub motors, power controller & gel-batteries already exceeded past P120k without labor & custom parts fabrication yet. No idea about current prices though.

Niky! ... you looking at adding 50hp more power at the (rear) wheels?

[niky]

I'm still considering what to do with our delivery vehicle.

Can the work be done with cheaper batteries and/or pancake motors?

[iho250]

wow this is very interesting...

[ghosthunter]

I'm still considering what to do with our delivery vehicle.

Can the work be done with cheaper batteries and/or pancake motors?

As for batteries yes but they might not have the long term durability or might simply weigh much more. As for the motor, if the motor is under-sized, performance would suffer especially from a standing start.

Note: the cost is not all just the motor & batteries. You also have to consider the upgrades that have to be done to the rear suspension to handle the torque and thrust from the hub mounted motors.

[niky]

Two words: beam axle. The AD Resort has a beam suspension with stiffer springs and a larger beam than a stock Sentra. It should be able to handle the extra torque and weight fine.

[ghosthunter]

Two words: beam axle. The AD Resort has a beam suspension with stiffer springs and a larger beam than a stock Sentra. It should be able to handle the extra torque and weight fine.

True that a beam axle vehicle would solve a lot of the rear suspension problems but it wouldn't solve the marketability to a wider market though, hence the proposal of the Corolla as test vehicle then.

[niky]

Hmmm... I'm still considering whether to sell the diesel service or the gasoline one... hehehe... if I sell the diesel service, I'd have a wad of cash to play around with in terms of mods and experimentation. ;)

[ghosthunter]

I wonder if the stuff found at

http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/default.asp

can be applied into this kind of project?

[rotaminph]

Gusto ko po sana mag start ng bagong discussion about converting an Ordirary car to electric. kaya lang di ako makagawa. wala ata ako access. been reading a lot of articles about it pero wala ako nakita o alam na ganito sa pinas. It seems to be simple for us, kaya lang me kamahalan. especially battery.

para me focus tayo, i'm thinking of converting honda civic, Manual Transmission.

Here is what we need to consider at mga tanong na kelangan sagutin.

1. Motor AC or DC?
- ilang horsepower ang kelangan?
- ilang volts/ amps?
- san kukunin? salvage forklift?
2. Battery option
- must be deep cycle. our best option would be motolite golf master.
- motolite 6V/220 AH around 6,000 peso each. <this thing is heavy>... very heavy kelangan baguhin suspension...
3. Controller
- eto ung accelerator mo, controls the speed of the motor.. cguro kaya na gawin to sa electronic shop or universities. marami pyesa sa raon. mas maganda sarili natin design kasi hangat maari.
4. Charger
- amps?


Future consideration:

1. Regenerative Breaking
- mounting alternator that will activate when you hit the break
- using motor as generator.
- charge controller

2. Solar Panels
- the fact that solar panels won't generate enough electricity for real time driving, it would help increasing the mileage.
- 400-500 watts on the roof and on the hood is possible.

3. Built in battery desulfator
- for sure, battery will extremely go into many cycles of charging and discharging, there will be a significant sulfation on the battery from time to time.

Very cheap if you can built your own. Less than 500 peso...
http://www.alton-moore.net/graphics/desulfator.pdf

Mga kelangang tangalin dahil di na kelangan.

- engine
- muffler
- radiator

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MODERATOR's Note:

This post was transferred from:
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[ghosthunter]

2. Solar Panels
- the fact that solar panels won't generate enough electricity for real time driving, it would help increasing the mileage.
- 400-500 watts on the roof and on the hood is possible.

Not really practical.

Currently a single typical solar panel will produce between 80 to 120 watts of maximum power. So unless you are driving a van, the typical car roof would only be good enough to produce around 240 watts maximum or two typical solar panels.

The added cost, weight and potential theft would offset any gains. You would be better off installing an additional battery to get the same extended range benefit the added solar panels would give you.

[ghosthunter]

Future consideration:

1. Regenerative Breaking
- mounting alternator that will activate when you hit the break
- using motor as generator.
- charge controller

This should already be part of the car's electric controller from the start of the project.

The electric motors used to move the car forward can be used in brake regenerative mode to do two things, slow the car and generate power to recharge the batteries.

No need to add a dedicated alternator.

[ghosthunter]

Gusto ko po sana mag start ng bagong discussion about converting an Ordirary car to electric. kaya lang di ako makagawa. wala ata ako access. been reading a lot of articles about it pero wala ako nakita o alam na ganito sa pinas. It seems to be simple for us, kaya lang me kamahalan. especially battery.

para me focus tayo, i'm thinking of converting honda civic, Manual Transmission.

Here is what we need to consider at mga tanong na kelangan sagutin.

1. Motor AC or DC?
- ilang horsepower ang kelangan?
- ilang volts/ amps?
- san kukunin? salvage forklift?

The best option is a direct drive from a pair of pancake motors mounted in the wheel hubs.

2. Battery option
- must be deep cycle. our best option would be motolite golf master.
- motolite 6V/220 AH around 6,000 peso each. <this thing is heavy>... very heavy kelangan baguhin suspension...

Although heavy, you don't need to use many in an electric hybrid configured car. One or two would be enough to make the system function. Adding more batteries would give better electric range but there is the point of diminishing returns in both cost and performance.

3. Controller
- eto ung accelerator mo, controls the speed of the motor.. cguro kaya na gawin to sa electronic shop or universities. marami pyesa sa raon. mas maganda sarili natin design kasi hangat maari.

Although you can make your own, it might be simpler to purchase an offthe shelf unit that is specific for this purpose which would include other functions including regenerative braking, recharging battery while driving, etc.

4. Charger
- amps?

Since it would be an electric hybrid car, a charger wouldn't be required for the system to function.

[rotaminph]

Thank you for your, comments. With regards to the solar panels, i know it is not practical (for the moment) but with a solar cell w/ 17% and up efficiency will make it possible.

If you consume 200watts per mile, you will get at least two mile per hour of sunlight.

Anyway, our goal here is to collect everyones ideas to build a prototype. We have to focus first on motor and battery.

Any idea where we can buy or get a suitable motor?

Also, this topic must be in a different thread. I'm trying to create a discussion on pure electric. not hybrid. merge lang kasi ni moderator e.

[ghosthunter]

Thank you for your, comments. With regards to the solar panels, i know it is not practical (for the moment) but with a solar cell w/ 17% and up efficiency will make it possible.

If you consume 200watts per mile, you will get at least two mile per hour of sunlight.

A car with a power consumption of only 200 watts per mile ??? What efficiencies are you using in building your car? ... over-unity?

And you did mention using an existing car as the platform for your electric car.

1 HP = 746 watts

You cannot compute using the solar panels 17% efficiency because that is the maximum at the optimum angle, etc. You will have to account for less than optimum sunlight, mounting angle and even dirt on the panels.

[niky]

Not to mention the fact that you're not going to get all that power into the battery without some losses, also.

[OldSchoolHack]

Discovery Turbo had a show which featured the conversion of a car (Mustang ata) to full electric. Problem is rock star yung nagpagawa kaya sky is the limit sa budget. Both front and back were filled with batteries and it ran 200++ hp.

Sana meron din dito pero limit budget. So we can convert carburetor based engines to electric. Kaha lang, suspension, steering, interior, aircon lang matitira. Come to think of it pwede ding electric steering.

[zepolj]

Also, this topic must be in a different thread. I'm trying to create a discussion on pure electric. not hybrid. merge lang kasi ni moderator e.[/quote]

Wow gusto ko ang thread na ito sana marami mag post ng kanilang mga opinion and experiences sa pag-gawa nito. Sandali lang mayroon ba gumagawa na ng ganito sa pinas? Sana kung meron electronic savvy step-up para naman makatulong

[carl94]

Hello everyone, I am currently working on an electric conversion of a regular car. I was wondering if you have information on where I can get dc motors locally. I hope to finish the project in a few months and will write about the performance when I'm done.