Who Killed The Electric Car?

[neko-chan]

Who Killed The Electric Car? (documentary film)

It was among the fastest, most efficient production cars ever built. It ran on electricity, produced no emissions and catapulted American technology to the forefront of the automotive industry. The lucky few who drove it never wanted to give it up. So why did General Motors crush its fleet of EV1 electric vehicles in the Arizona desert?

WHO KILLED THE ELECTRIC CAR? chronicles the life and mysterious death of the GM EV1, examining its cultural and economic ripple effects and how they reverberated through the halls of government and big business.

trailer here:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony/w...iccar/trailer/

[neko-chan]

EV1 Defeats Mazda Miata
http://www.evchargernews.com/CD-A/gm...y_footage2.htm
EV1 Shatters Electric Vehicle land speed record
http://www.evchargernews.com/CD-A/gm...y_footage1.htm

[NazQ]

interesting.. pero san ba galing yung most of the electricity?

[ghosthunter]

interesting.. pero san ba galing yung most of the electricity?

The GM EV1 batteries are charged from a changering station installed at home or office parking area. It uses a paddle type induction "charger" which eliminates the possibility of electricution when charging the car.

The electricity comes from the national power grid or from whatever power source you may prefer (could be solar, wind, tidal, nuclear, hamsters, etc).

[MAXBUWAYA]

i think Mr shell and the rest of the gang of corporate empire

[userfriendly]

Napanood ko to sa discovery channel. GM only leased the EV1. Sobrang tibay nung EV1 at halos maintenance free walng kita ang GM sa service and parts. Kaya nung end ng lease binawi nila lahat kahit may offer to buy galing sa mga users.

[mazdamazda]

I don't think it is "who" but "what" killed the electric car.

Simple: Batteries (or for a more gramatically & technically correct term... the failed projected breakthrough in battery technology).

Battery technology hasn't progressed that much over the past few years / decades. A simple proof is in your 3G capable mobile phone... try to do a video call or stream vids... the battery level will drop noticeably faster (it has been reported that a 30-minute video call will drain half of the battery's reserves).

This has limited the electric car's mobility & dependability... namely:

1. Charging Time... compared to filling up at your corner gasoline store this is quite long (5 to 8 hours). Plus the fact that you have to install a charger at your home.

2. Lack of Range & Utility... Electric Cars can only manage to carry so much battery (regardless if it is the old lead-acid or the new nimh battery) in its chassis. Typical range is just between 1/3 to 1/2 as that of a gasoline powered sedan. Even less when another passenger hitches up or when you have luggage. Rain/snow/humidity and uphill climbs will also eat up power dramatically faster.

3. Battery Power Drops Exponentially... unlike gasoline wherein the engine performs the same regardless of fuel load (though vehicle will perform better with a lighter fuel load - hehe)... the perform of electric vehicles drops substantially as the battery reserves is drained. See also rain/snow/humidity/uphills in #2. Would you rather drive home in a typhoon with 10kms to go on 1 liter of gasoline or a 10% battery charge?

Plus... the long-term viability of electric cars is not so good. Imagine if all current gasoline/diesel engines were to become electric powered... you need to consider the number of power plants that needs to be built and the need to upgrade current electric grids.

Though something good came from electric cars... namely hybrid vehicles!

Though if you really want to save on overall cost (including vehicle procurement cost, maintenance, fuel, disposal) just buy a diesel-powered sub-compact sedan (Hyundai Getz CRDi anyone?)

[kimpOy]

pare bukas na lang tayo gumimik low bat ang kotse ko eh

[neko-chan]

Fuji Heavy Industries, the maker of Subaru brand vehicles, announced that it will release the R1e electric minicar by 2010, and that the vehicle will begin roadtests in Japan this year.

Based on the R1 minicar, the R1e uses a lithium-ion battery can be recharged to 90% of capacity in five minutes. The current prototype can be driven 120 kilometers (75 miles) without recharging, but the distance is expected to be expanded to 200 kilometers (124 miles). Fuji Heavy plans to start testing the R1e on public roads this year. The company also unveiled a new capacitor with quadruple the energy density of earlier models. (GCC)

Investors reponded well to the announcement; share prices of both companies rose. <== ito lang naman kailangan marinig ng mga automakers para magpursige sila eh

[neko-chan]

I don't think it is "who" but "what" killed the electric car.

Simple: Batteries (or for a more gramatically & technically correct term... the failed projected breakthrough in battery technology).

Battery technology hasn't progressed that much over the past few years / decades. A simple proof is in your 3G capable mobile phone... try to do a video call or stream vids... the battery level will drop noticeably faster (it has been reported that a 30-minute video call will drain half of the battery's reserves).

This has limited the electric car's mobility & dependability... namely:

1. Charging Time... compared to filling up at your corner gasoline store this is quite long (5 to 8 hours). Plus the fact that you have to install a charger at your home.

2. Lack of Range & Utility... Electric Cars can only manage to carry so much battery (regardless if it is the old lead-acid or the new nimh battery) in its chassis. Typical range is just between 1/3 to 1/2 as that of a gasoline powered sedan. Even less when another passenger hitches up or when you have luggage. Rain/snow/humidity and uphill climbs will also eat up power dramatically faster.

3. Battery Power Drops Exponentially... unlike gasoline wherein the engine performs the same regardless of fuel load (though vehicle will perform better with a lighter fuel load - hehe)... the perform of electric vehicles drops substantially as the battery reserves is drained. See also rain/snow/humidity/uphills in #2. Would you rather drive home in a typhoon with 10kms to go on 1 liter of gasoline or a 10% battery charge?

Plus... the long-term viability of electric cars is not so good. Imagine if all current gasoline/diesel engines were to become electric powered... you need to consider the number of power plants that needs to be built and the need to upgrade current electric grids.

Though something good came from electric cars... namely hybrid vehicles!

Though if you really want to save on overall cost (including vehicle procurement cost, maintenance, fuel, disposal) just buy a diesel-powered sub-compact sedan (Hyundai Getz CRDi anyone?)

the ev-1 has a battery charge time of 1.5hours upto 80% and 3 hours to fillup to 100%. Mileage is aroud 70 - 130 miles depending on the road conditions. for me that's not too bad at all. the lead-acid battery version is 98% recyclable which is a really nice feature....

There is a breakthrough in stored energy in general though. The Fuel Cell is a very effective electrochemical device though it may not qualify or be categorized as a battery. The problem is hydrogen in its purest form is very volatile. Another breakthrough is the lithium-ion which is currently researched by Subaru ( see above post)

[oliver1013]

hmmmmm ok na yung performance give it 5 to 10 years mas matindi ang leap sa development nyan.

[mazdamazda]

the ev-1 has a battery charge time of 1.5hours upto 80% and 3 hours to fillup to 100%. Mileage is aroud 70 - 130 miles depending on the road conditions. for me that's not too bad at all. the lead-acid battery version is 98% recyclable which is a really nice feature....

from the web:

Recharging took as much as eight hours for a full charge (although one could get an 80% charge in two to three hours

Another breakthrough is the lithium-ion which is currently researched by Subaru ( see above post)

and as for lithium-ion batteries:

A unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its life span is dependent upon aging from time of manufacturing (shelf life) regardless of whether it was charged, and not just on the number of charge/discharge cycles. This drawback is not widely publicized.

[mazdamazda]

hmmmmm ok na yung performance give it 5 to 10 years mas matindi ang leap sa development nyan.

a little known fact...

electric cars/vehicles have been around at the same time internal combustion engines have been developed (mid 1800s).

its development (and also of the internal combustion engine) is going nowhere (not as radical as before). improvement will be very incremental and expensive.

[neko-chan]

marami talagang critics ang electric vehicles sa web, mostly the detractors are people who relies/profits on conventional energy too much or a certain government (U.S.) which has invested trillions of dollars on oil. The figures on the mileage may differ from person to person. That's why the first 900 ev-1 autos were leased to a choice group of people for research and evaluation.

For me, the bottom line is that the consumer should at least have a choice of alternative modes of transportation. the conventional fuel is in development for almost a century now. Commercial electric vehicle technology is still a bit young, at least, some automakers still allocated some budget for its research. Give it more time, sigurado mapapantayan niyan ang conventional autos.

[niky]

Actually, some of those detractors aren't from the oil mafia, but people who are honestly trying to spot futures in automotive technology.

Electric cars are not really in their infancy. As mazdamazda has said, electric cars have been around as long as gas cars. In fact, steam, gas and electricity were originally competing for the same market.

As it stands, current output from existing battery factories cannot meet the demand for hybrid vehicles. This is one limitation that applies to both hybrids and electrics. Financial groups seeking to work out a viable replacement for oil-powered vehicles have stated that a hydrogen infrastructure is also not a viable option.

The limitation of electrics is not electric technology per se, as electric motors have been under continuous development for decades for use in generators, trains (a field that requires motors much like electric cars would use), appliances and electric cars, golf carts and other vehicles.

As it stands, modern electric motors are often better than similar sized oil-burners. The major problem is sourcing the electricity and storing it. Our best battery technologies are too dependent on toxic and/or very rare or valuable materials. Unless there's a fundamental breakthrough in battery tech (I'm waiting on bio-batteries... ), they'll stay expensive. And don't think that manufacturers aren't spending money on battery research... it's a multibillion dollar industry.

Truthfully, the modern consumer already has many choices. Electric cars and scooters are available, but there's no refueling infrastructure to support them. In fact, you can buy a kit online to convert any old gasoline car into a full-on electric car. LPG and Natural Gas powered vehicles are also available to the consumer.

Electric cars that match gasoline cars in performance aren't a far-fetched or expensive thing... it's the batteries that's holding them back. If we really want to go electric, we will have to accept the limitations of the system.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. And that's what oil has been for a long time. When it's gone, we're going to have to work for that energy. All the alternatives put together won't be able to match oil... it's up to us to learn to consume less.

[mazdamazda]

marami talagang critics ang electric vehicles sa web, mostly the detractors are people who relies/profits on conventional energy too much or a certain government (U.S.) which has invested trillions of dollars on oil. The figures on the mileage may differ from person to person. That's why the first 900 ev-1 autos were leased to a choice group of people for research and evaluation.

For me, the bottom line is that the consumer should at least have a choice of alternative modes of transportation. the conventional fuel is in development for almost a century now. Commercial electric vehicle technology is still a bit young, at least, some automakers still allocated some budget for its research. Give it more time, sigurado mapapantayan niyan ang conventional autos.

Electric vehicles or electric cars?

If we are talking about electric vehicles... there are very much in use nowadays... not at the consumer level but on an industrial scale specifically for locomotives.

Actually, electric motors (as niky also pointed out) are more compact, efficient, and powerful than similar sized gas/diesel engines. That is why this is being utilized for passenger & high-speed (e.g. LGV, Shinkansen aka Bullet Train) trains.

But that is also their Achille's Heel since no battery technology will be able to supply the electrical demands of those electric motors. That is why you have overhead electric cables or rails with current running through them to power those trains.

Bottomline... commercial electric vehicle technology is already there... what is missing is the equivalent battery technology to store energy.

===

And as of the conspiracy talk of suppressing the development of nonconventional energy... well... that is just hilarious.

1. The USA does not control the R&D of other countries & private firms. How about Japan , Korea, China & Europe? Those countries couldn't care less if oil is suddenly displaced by a new fuel source since those countries don't have sufficient domestic oil supplies.

2. The USA bankrolled $1B of the $1.2B for the R&D of the GM EV1.

3. The US DOE is working with GM, Chrysler & Ford on developing new non-conventional automobiles (mainly hydrogen).

4. A lot of alternative fuel sources is available on the market today... natural gas, hybrids, biofuel, electric, compressed air, etc.

5. The new buzzword nowadays is hydrogen... lots of potential but we need a technology leapfrog from conventional electrolysis and make fusion energy feasible on a wide-scale basis.

[niky]

hehehe... the problem with Fusion is to make a Fusion reactor work in the first place. We're still not at a point where fusion reactors break even in terms of energy input and energy output. Twenty years ago, it seemed like we were twenty years away from useable fusion. Now, it seems like another twenty years still... ***sigh***

[rion]

seen the movie. it's quite interesting. there was a new new battery technology but never got it's chance to test it with the EV. GM destroyed all it's EVs.


the sound of the vehicle is like in some awesome sci-fi movies. like turbines in planes.


drag race EV vs Gas...


Hybrid Plugin...


The inventor of the new Battery Technology.

[oldblue]

meron documentary before about japan on battery fuel cells using urine, yes ihi. ok daw electric characteristics ng ihi. in fact if used on small battery such as mobile phones, it can last a month.


so siguro the future gas station will be like this, Puro Luxury CR on the road which has capability to collect gallons and gallons of urine from daily travellers.

yun gas trucks will be converted to urine collecting trucks tapos dala sa fuel cell factory. load the urine in battery units. pack and ship 'em. tapos magbenta na lang ng baterya yun gasolinahan hehehe

the only problem na lang siguro eh yun factory, how hazardous kaya to work with urine everyday

[b1rken5tock]

meron documentary before about japan on battery fuel cells using urine, yes ihi. ok daw electric characteristics ng ihi. in fact if used on small battery such as mobile phones, it can last a month.


so siguro the future gas station will be like this, Puro Luxury CR on the road which has capability to collect gallons and gallons of urine from daily travellers.

yun gas trucks will be converted to urine collecting trucks tapos dala sa fuel cell factory. load the urine in battery units. pack and ship 'em. tapos magbenta na lang ng baterya yun gasolinahan hehehe

the only problem na lang siguro eh yun factory, how hazardous kaya to work with urine everyday

this is better than the water powered car...