can methanol be safely mixed with diesel?

[nugundam93]

can methanol be safely mixed with diesel?

a friend of mine tried it, sabi niya mas tipid na raw pajero niya (subic-sourced, uses the 4D56). what we don't know yet is if magkakaroon ng any adverse effects on the wear and tear of engine internals/fuel system/exhaust, and emissions.

thanks in advance!

[ILuvDetailing]

Does methanol increase the fuels RON rating?

[Jayo]

Don't do it! Methanol will reduce the lubricity of diesel fuel w/c is detrimental to your pump! If you can find a way to inject and control it at the intake it can be used as an oxygenate.

[nugundam93]

ahhhh okay, so basically pwede siya, just don't let it pass through the pump?

gotta tell my friend...

oxygenate...like the concept behind NOS?

[Jayo]

No, not NOS. Oxygenate as in reformulated gasoline, to reduce emissions but ethanol is used in this case because methanol has some negative effects on the environment. Methanol in fact has a poison label/mark (skull-cross bone), I use it with 10% lubricant for my rcheli.

And yes it can increase RON of gasoline, don't know the details though.

[nugundam93]

ahhhh...ethanol would be better pala. thanks! :D

[OTEP]

Just don't do it. I don't even know why people like coming out with these concoctions.

[rsnald]

teka teks.. break muna. medyo nagkalituhan yata. yung original questions is whethere methanol can be blended into diesel ..not gasoline.
to answer the first question... answer is no. masyado mababa ang flash point ng methanol compared to diesel - might cause fuel pre-ignition. and yes, walang lubricity and methanol compared to diesel. it might ruin your fuel pump.

now as to blending ethanol to gasoline, that's been done and it does work. if you guys know alcogas, yun na yun = ethanol + gasoline. di lang economically feasible dahil mahal ang ethanol. methanol naman is toxic. sa ibang bansa advocated na yang use ng alcogas, dito sa pinas... actually part yan sa alternative fuel program ng DOE. nga lang, alang large and cheap supply ng ethanol. kung gusto nyo...ihalo nyo na lang vodka or lambanog sa gasoline... 90 proof din yun... or 45% ethanol

[diesoline]

rsnald please enlighten me. i read a letter to the editor in the philippine star yesterday saying that the goverment should reexamine the biodiesel program because methy esters are a form of methanol. the letter writer claims to be a geologist. any comments, sir?

[rsnald]

rsnald please enlighten me. i read a letter to the editor in the philippine star yesterday saying that the goverment should reexamine the biodiesel program because methy esters are a form of methanol. the letter writer claims to be a geologist. any comments, sir?

nyek... magkalayong magkalayo ang methanol from methyl ester although methanol is used to make biodiesel... biodiesel is a product of methanol + any triglycerides or fatty acids, or in layman's terms, any vegetable or animal oil but not synthetic petroleum oil. chemically speaking, methanol is an alcohol, methyl esters is the product of methanol + fatty acid = Fatty acid methyl ester. to make it sound layman friendly, they called it biodiesel to denote that the product came from biological raw materials.

in terms of fuel properties na lang, mas mababa ang flash point at ang heating value ng methanol vs. biodiesel. mas magkalapit ang alcohols and gasoline in terms of combustibility dahil pareho silang mababa ang flash point (flash pt= temp at which a substance will give off flammable vapors).

ethanol, matagal ng proven yan na pwede sa gas engine. just googlelize "alcogas"... 1970'S pa yata yan. kahit nga yata sa aviation fuel hinahalo yan.

[rsnald]

folks... i have to take back what i said about methanol + diesel blend.
apparently, this is already being done by a company in the U.S. (www.methanex.com) and is one of the alternative fuel blends being explored by the EU. although wala pakong nababasang solid data on its advantages/benefits ,if it needs engine mods, percentage of blending, performance etc.

still and all, methanol is chemically different vs. biodiesel. personally, i'd choose biodiesel over methanol (for now given what i know about biodiesel). methanol is a toxic chemical although it's odorless compared to biodiesel. methanol is also hard to obtain in its pure form - madali syang ma saturate ng moisture - it will even pick up atmospheric moisture - advantage of methanol is that it's a lot cheaper vs. biodiesel...heck it might even be cheaper than diesel on a per liter basis if you buy in bulk (20,000 liters :D).... will i try methanol/diesel? maybe... maybe not. depends... will check more details muna ;)

[nugundam93]

rsnald: ahhh i see...

so biodiesel na lang talaga? ;)

[mazdamazda]

AFAIK, ethanol is being experimented on for use in race cars.

[Jayo]

Ethanol in CART?

[mazdamazda]

pro drag racing. AFAIK, may mga engine problems pa yata sila...

[quiksie]

e mga gurus ang gaas po pwede ba sa diesel engines? Sabi kasi ng mga truck drivers ng pinsan ko at mga mekaniko mas maganda daw ang combustion pag hinaluan ng gaas ang diesel. Faster acceleration daw at burn ng diesel pag may gaas? Ano sa tingin niyo?

[Jayo]

e mga gurus ang gaas po pwede ba sa diesel engines? Sabi kasi ng mga truck drivers ng pinsan ko at mga mekaniko mas maganda daw ang combustion pag hinaluan ng gaas ang diesel. Faster acceleration daw at burn ng diesel pag may gaas? Ano sa tingin niyo?

Exactly what I heard from jeepney drivers in our province.

Hehehe... gasolina para "fastest" acceleration! Pasenya na po di ko lang matiis.

Forget anything that will lessen diesel fuels lubricity and btu output!

Can't really blame 'em, they don't have access to the right information and rely only testimonials.

[Doc Diesel]

the only thing that I would personally recommend to mix with diesel is biodiesel....any others.......see you in our shop in the next few months I would say.

[nugundam93]

hmmm...interesting. i'll ask my friend to join in here so we can have first-hand inputs. :D

[naid]

ako yung friend ni nugundam na nag-experiment with methanol at eto yung buong kwento ng experiment ( gamit ko eh 2.5 mk2 lwb na pajero)

nabasa ko yung methanol mixture sa forums ng www.pocuk.com. matagal na akong gumagamit ng biodiesel at gusto ko na man i-try iba. nalinis na kasi ng biodiesel fuel lines ko at combustion kaya wala na usok yung paj(pero kasama na dun yung blanked-off EGR valve mod). yung effect ng biodiesel ay maganda at i-rerecommend ko yun.

nung nabasa ko sa forums ng pocuk about methanol at since successful naman test nila eh nag-try din ako nung pauwi ako ng pampanga. 150+ km yun pauwi at pabalik at eto results

before methanol mix(pure shell diesoline ultra)

150+km = P500+ worth of diesel

after (<1% methanol mixture, 22+L diesel + 200mL methanol)

150+km = P350-P400 na lang...

sa city driving naman:
before methanol mix(pure shell diesoline ultra)

30km = P100+ worth of diesel

after (with < 1% methanol mixture)

40km+ = P100 worth ng diesel+methanol

so mas matipid talaga...kaya lang di ko rin irerecommend ito kasi mababa or walang lubricity yung methanol. kaya ko lang naman natry sa paj ko kasi 4d56 yung engine nun at iba yung fuel pump dahil old skul at na-totolerate yung low lubricity diesels(ayon sa pocuk).

yung test eh intended as one time trial, pero hanggang ngayon eh gamit ko pa rin yung methanol sa city driving. napansin ko lang habang tumatagal gamit ko ng methanol eh bumabalik sa dati yung consumption. yung quality kasi ng methanol eh bumababa habang na-eexpose sa hangin lalo na at di maganda yung container nung nabili ko yung 1L methanol (worth P75) sa UP shopping center ba yun(shopping center ba talaga o coop?). gamit ko ring methanol eh hindi pure (may konting castor oil sabi sa UP shopping center ). pure dapat bibilhin ko kaso mahal nasa P1000 + ata 2.5L.

so marerecommend ko ba ito...nope. kasi mababa or walang lubricity nga yung methanol. pero %1 lang din naman kasi ginawa ko kaya walang nasira. kung pure methanol eh ibang usapan na yun. yung methanol sa test eh additive yung role nya at hindi total diesel replacement na pwede mong gawin sa biodiesel(pagkakabasa ko).

long term effect? pagbili ko ng next batch ng 1L methanol, check ko ulit...

try ko naman next eh veg oil+methanol+diesel mixture. mix is 1L+0.10L+0.01L diesel+veg oil+methanol mixture.

kaya lang matagal pa yan kasi busy na rin ako... at handa ng pera kung may masira man, na wag naman sana...hhaaaayyyyy

nagsimula yung desire ko na maghanap ng alternative fuel or fuel mixture sa diesel engine nung nabasa ko na yung 1st engine pala ni Rudolf Diesel eh tumakbo sa peanut oil. mahal na mahal ko diesel engines kasi pwede palang maging environment-friendly ang mga ito.


gusto nyo hintay na lang sa veg oil experiment para mas marami pagpipilian.
at sa mga gustong mag-test, research muna about sa diesel engine nyo kung saan limit nito sa fuel,temp etc. at wag nyo akong gagayahin kasi nerdy-geek talaga ako at nagiging malaking problema na talaga yun sa iba at sa sarili ko ...hehehehe

ayun lang...wala na ako masasabi...experiment na lang at your own risk, aral marami then experiment...