email messg re: biodiesel

[woodfire]

fyi, testimonies on biodiesel.
----- Original Message -----
From: Vicente C. Tantuico, Jr. <mailto:vct*tricom.com.ph>
To: customer-relations*isuzuphil.com <mailto:customer-relations*isuzuphil.com> ; Rommel Cortez <mailto:rommel-cortez*isuzuphil.com>
Cc: cjdc*tricom.com.ph <mailto:cjdc*tricom.com.ph> ; Estrol <mailto:estrol*senbel.com.ph>
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Estrol biodiesel on Trooper


dear rommel,

you might like to look into biodiesel more seriously as a possible solution to the thick black smoke problem on the trooper skyroof edition._ tricom bought 2 units trooper a few months back & one was due for LTO registration late last month._ to our great surprise it failed the emission test._ it has not even reach 5k in its odometer - meaning its virtually brand new._ on my trooper i also experience thick black smoke when i accelerate.

i have been using 2% estrol biodiesel mix on my 2000 starex for the past 3 months._ it has logged over 40k in its odometer._ observations-_ 1. very little smoke even during hard acceleration_ 2. smoother running engine 3. more responsive engine 4._ it passed the emission test._ no need to hose down the exhaust pipe with water like last year.

best regards




At 02:46 PM 9/1/03 +0800, Estrol wrote:


Hi Rommel,
_
Relative to the biodiesel, the DOE had in fact finished and circulated the Philippine National Standard for Coconut Methyl Ester Biodiesel 100 which was taken up in a series of technical meetings together with CAMPI of the Phil. and Oil Co's, DOST, DENR, DOE,DTI and other concerned agencies. We also have the Worldwide Fuel Charter that states VDE Vegetable Derived Ester * 5% conforms and does not void it's warranty as signed by car manufacturers. The VDE has been there for a long time in countries abroad. However, here in the Philippines, it's something new and this is the same reason why most of the interested parties who saw the advantages of using CME_ are asking the car manufacturers. You can also refer to the DOE technical committee for info. Also, the Phil. had adopted the EN14214 standards for the biodiesel which is twice stricter in terms of standard compliance. I've highlighted the references in the ppt. on VDE.
_
Thanks._____________
----- Original Message -----
From: Vicente C. Tantuico, Jr. <mailto:vct*tricom.com.ph>
To: Rommel Cortez <mailto:rommel-cortez*isuzuphil.com>
Cc: customer-relations*isuzuphil.com <mailto:customer-relations*isuzuphil.com> ; estrol*senbel.com.ph <mailto:estrol*senbel.com.ph>
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 7:59 AM
Subject: Estrol biodiesel on Trooper

Dear Mr. Cortez,

It seems Senbel does not agree with you._ Can you please clarify me on this._ Attached is the worlwide charter on biodiesel for your reference.

thanks.




Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:00:20 +0800


To: "Vicente C. Tantuico, Jr." <vct*tricom.com.ph <mailto:vct*tricom.com.ph>>
From: CJDC <cjdc*tricom.com.ph <mailto:cjdc*tricom.com.ph>>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Estrol biodiesel on Trooper
X-elivered-To: cjdc*tricom.com.ph <mailto:cjdc*tricom.com.ph>
From: "Estrol" <estrol*senbel.com.ph <mailto:estrol*senbel.com.ph>>
To: "CJDC" <cjdc*tricom.com.ph <mailto:cjdc*tricom.com.ph>>
Subject: Re: Estrol biodiesel on Trooper
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:48:09 +0800

Hi !
_
Had the chance of reading your email. The injection system you have is high pressured but nevertheless, the Worldwide fuel charter states that at B5 or blend of 5%biodiesel or vegetable derived ester, this will not void it's warranty. In fact cars in Germany with similar common rail injection have been using biodiesel from B5 up to B20 or 20%._ I've clipped a copy of the doc. for reference._
_
Happy reading !
_
_Thanks._
_
Sandy


At 10:15 AM 8/18/03 +0800, you wrote:


Dear Mr. Tantuico,
_
My apologies for the delay in our response.
_
We are responding on the possible use of biodiesel on your Isuzu Trooper.
_
Our service group disagrees; the 4JX1-TC engines installed in our Isuzu Troopers are designed for 'pure' diesel fuel. To date we are not sure of the effects of biodiesel in our engines.
_
Thank you very much.
_
_
ROMMEL CORTEZ
Asst. Section Manager
Cstomer Relations Team




At 03:52 PM 07/03/2003 +0800, Estrol wrote:


Hi,
_
just for your info...we have been using an Isuzu Crosswind as our test unit in our fuel consumption runs with the Dep't. of Energy at 100% Biodiesel and a Nissan Safari with continuous blends for 2 years now and we have not experience any trouble..well in fact.. Estrol Biodiesel is engine friendly coz it is high in lubricity and burns cleanly._ If u need more info, we would be very happy to accomodate all questions regarding our product.
_
Thanks and best regards,
_
Jun Lucas
Sales Manager

[boknoyxtrm2001]

hahahaha,

Yari nanaman si Rommel dito..... may tumalo.... hjeheheheheh mabiro nga yan mamaya

Pero In fairness.... i think a small blend will definitely help a lot sa Smoke reduction..


I want to do a tiny experiment on my XTRM.. Paging woodfire... dala ka naman nang 2 liter o dito sa makati....

[boybi]

so ano ba talaga? pwde ba sa trooper or hindi?

[RedHorse]

boybi,

bmw panay series ng ads ng kanilang common rail diesel engine, baka sila may sagot na dito..

X5 na minimithi mo baka diesel ang ikabit na makina..

[Ungas]

RedHorse::: Meron na pong na release BMW X5 3.0D variant. DOHC 6-in-line 24-valve.

[mdpo]

Ako rin I want to know! pwede ba?? I am due for LTO registration na... kinabahan ako dun ah! baka fail din aaabutan ko

[boybi]

yung trooper namin pumasa naman sa emmission test. 7 months na nung nagpatest. pero yung 1st buga, bagsak, yung succeeding pasado na.

[Ray]

To All of you guys,

There is no problem using the biodiesel for common rail systems. Remember that biodiesel is not an additive, it's a fuel. Due to its current price, we suggest it to be a blend lang. It can be used pure, it has the characters of a diesel plus all the advantages such as low sulfur content, higher cetane ratings, high solvency factor, oxygen presence and many more. The difference lang is, biodiesel is vegetable based.

[Doc Diesel]

I can't wait to see what happens with common rail systems on biodiesel..

pump manufacturers still have reservations on using biodiesel sa common rail. pero if ray here can suport that move then go ahead.

pls. post your usage experience.

Doc Diesel

[Ray]

Ok, let me give you some websites to support this.

http://www.myfreelander.com/fuelsystem.htm

Next website to browse is the one below. Meron na nito sa isang forum, posted I think by RCM, the title is "Biodiesel Approved by Car Manufacturers". This will answer what is EN590 diesel suggested for a common rail system.

http://www.biodieselfillingstations.co.uk/approvals.htm

Please comment kung may question kayo, so we can all benefit. Thanks!

[Doc Diesel]

http://www.myfreelander.com/fuelsystem.htm - from his injector type alone, I could say it's for the euro and or US market since thise type of nozzle tips he used are still non existent in vehicles here in our country. we've encountered some DSLA types but for industrial and stationary engines only, none for auto. those nozzle tips are high pressured ones tha go beyond the 200 reading on the injector tester.

http://www.biodieselfillingstations.co.uk/approvals.htm - not all auto. manufacturers have common rail on their engines yet. I know of BMW, Benz and Isuzu only as of now for the Phil. market. Even on this site BMW says "Special order for Biodiesel version needed.", the Vito L model of Benz wasn't mentioned. Again this is maybe for the Euro and US markets where everything is fully advanced.

What we have to consider is are the pump OEM manufacturers endorsing the use of biodiesel on ASIAN markets. Those made for the Euro and US markets have a big difference.

Kung may guinea pig lang sana e.

Doc Diesel

[x-wind]

di ba dapat dun sa mga existing pump natin evaluate tong biodiesel di natin pwede compare sa ibang country specially iba fuel natin .................

[rsnald]

yung boss ko, he uses biodiesel on his 2001 trooper. he says it improves the combustion of the fuel, less black smoke, and better acceleration. he's been using it on-and-off since 2001 pa. Di ko lang alam kung nagkaron na ng problema pero palagay ko wala. lagi nya dala yun everywhere he goes e.

[mikey177]

guys, is there any preferred sequence for adding the biodiesel to the tank?

should it be: biodiesel first, then add regular diesel to mix it up? or regular diesel first, then top off with biodiesel?

[RCM]

Siguro to simplify your point Doc, please specify technical and/or chemical properties of Biodiesel comparing to a regular mineral diesel which could negatively effect specific parts of a common rail system.

I think kasi when we start to compare something di ba we should consider the chemical, physical, etc. Ano ba yung meron sa isa na wala sa isa...

We need to know, if you think UK and US lang ang pwede sa binanggit ni Ray.

[boknoyxtrm2001]

I think that the Common Rail system compatible with Biodiesel, The reason lang kung bakit kwetionable siya is because the Sensors of Trooper are very sensitive to this.. in effect baka magkaproblem so yung ang iniiwasan nang Isuzu pero as far as the UK and US are concerned kung pwede pwede siya same as the rotary but the difference is that the rotary hindi ganon ka super sensitive ang sensors niya dahil hindi siya Electronic Controlled.


I think ito yung bottom line nang argument between BIODIeSEL and ISUZU

[Doc Diesel]

boknoy is right. what I am concerned about is the fact that common rail systems deploy a lot of sensors in and out of the pump.

na mention ko na dati dito sa board na merong trooper dati na nagclaim ng warranty because of pump failure. pero it turned out that the sensors were very dirty because of the fuel. we just don't know where the fuel came from.

I've already initiated contact with Robert Bosch to ask their opinion since Bosch and Zexel are one, on the use of biodiesel on common rail systems. Let's see what they can say about it.

Doc Diesel

[RCM]

So ,your concern is that there "might" be an incompatibility sa electronics side ng mga sensors to the chemical properties ng biodiesel...?

If so, ano yung meron na component sa biodiesel na wala sa mineral diesel... All I know is that, yung presence lang ng oxygen ang pingkaiba ng Biodiesel sa mineral diesel.

Pardon me, my question still stands.

[OTEP]

Coconut oil seems to have a natural tendency to 'gel' or become malagkit.

I think that is what the concern is all about.

[Doc Diesel]

I am not a chemist and I am not scientifically inclined but I think Otep hit the nail there.

Doc Diesel