E10 Ethanol, bad for your engine & economy? [MERGED]

[mbt]

hanggang 10% blend lang yung approved ng car manufacturers (for ordinary cars, since "flex-fuel" vehicles that can use up to E85 also exist) if im not mistaken.

[mrpink]

umm .. so has anyone here tried it ?

[sirkosero]

umm .. so has anyone here tried it ?

i have. meron nito sa edsa after quezon ave. price ng unleaded 33.40. walang pinagkaiba sa takbo or anything. its just normal gas. may libreng flyer pero wala talaga noticeable effect...

[mrpink]

i have. meron nito sa edsa after quezon ave. price ng unleaded 33.40. walang pinagkaiba sa takbo or anything.

i guess kung walang noticable effect, that's a good thing ... pero i thought it was significantly cheaper ..

[sirkosero]

akala ko din eh... pero they are claiming na increased octane at ang octane nila ngayon ay 95+ sa unleaded 97+ sa g5 extreme nila... wala halos pinagkaiba sa price. ganun din. kala ko nga 60 centavos cheaper as earlier mentioned eh

[j_avonni]

I heard the President of Sea Oil, Glen Uy, on radio last night. He was saying that E10 has 95 or 97 RON, is cheaper by 60 centavos, has more mileage, has cleaning mechanism, and environment friendly.

[LynxMan]

this is the way of the future....the president for once is doing something good for our country and most importantly the environment. i hope this initiative moves on and supported by the big oil players and hope it will pave eventually for cheaper alternatives to fossil fuels and then hybrid cars and then eventually a cleaner world for our children and grandchildren....

[RafRaf]

resurrecting the thread...

http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showt...996#post408996

[sirkosero]

minimal lang naman daw ang damage sa e10 blend. i think the added wear and tear is due to a leaner burn...

OT: sa seaoil sa sta.ana, 32.70 lang ang E10

[Engr]

kailan kaya magkakaroon ng E10 ang Shell at Petron? possible kaya?

mas ok ito kung nagkataon kasi may 2% rebate pa using their co-branded Mastercards.
so mas malaking discount if ever(although mahal pa din :fire: ).

[rodski]

Hello Guys,

I tried the E10 from SeaOil in my picanto and I noticed no change in performance. However, I noticed an increase in mileage. The P500.00 load of 15++ liters have produced at present 160km and its still slightly below 1/4 tank. If this keeps up I would clock around 15km/li on a city driving mode.

My concern is the long term effect mentioned previously. Why is it a leaner burn? Does the engine have an octane sensor to adjust the air fuel mixture?

tnx

Rodski

[buknoy2002]

sana nga cheaper than non ethanol blended gas....

[j_avonni]

My consumption with E10 is about the same with XCS - 8.7 km/li. So, the advantage is that it is cheaper at P33.80 (price last night at SeaOil EDSA/P. Tuazon) as against XCS at P34.65 (price today at Petron Buendia/Makati). I saved P39.05 or P0.098/km. My ride is Innova 2.0.

[buknoy2002]

My consumption with E10 is about the same with XCS - 8.7 km/li. So, the advantage is that it is cheaper at P33.80 (price last night at SeaOil EDSA/P. Tuazon) as against XCS at P34.65 (price today at Petron Buendia/Makati). I saved P39.05 or P0.098/km. My ride is Innova 2.0.

yung P33.80 ba yung premiium ng seaoil (g5extreme ba yon) or unleaded?

isa pa question. yung seaoil ba sa p tuazon e which side? side near araneta center o side ng nodalos?

thnx

[j_avonni]

yung P33.80 ba yung premiium ng seaoil (g5extreme ba yon) or unleaded?

isa pa question. yung seaoil ba sa p tuazon e which side? side near araneta center o side ng nodalos?

thnx

The P33.80 is the Unleaded but with 95 RON, their premium has 97 RON. They don't have 93 RON. It's on Araneta side. Sa Novaliches, the price is only P33.65.

[buknoy2002]

My consumption with E10 is about the same with XCS - 8.7 km/li. So, the advantage is that it is cheaper at P33.80 (price last night at SeaOil EDSA/P. Tuazon) as against XCS at P34.65 (price today at Petron Buendia/Makati). I saved P39.05 or P0.098/km. My ride is Innova 2.0.

so mas mura nga e10, if you are gonna base it on octane ratings

e10 unleaded 33.80/liter vs XCS 34.75/liter both are 95 octane

[xenix]

Is it safe to use this ethanol blend in 1990's carburated engines?

[j_avonni]

Is it safe to use this ethanol blend in 1990's carburated engines?

I think so.

[mantoy]

Here's what the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (Australia) published on its website:
(http://www.fcai.com.au/ethanol.php/2.../00000001.html)

Most new and many older vehicle models can run on E10 blended petrol. Vehicle manufacturers and importers have provided the following information on the capability of their vehicles to operate on ethanol fuel blends up to a maximum of 10% or E10 subject to the fuel meeting the octane requirements of the vehicle, complying with relevant mandatory Australian fuel quality standards and the AIP/FCAI Code of Practice for volatility characteristics (Fuel Volatility Index). The Commonwealth Government has limited the level of ethanol in petrol in Australia at a maximum of 10%. The information below provides technical reasons why some models cannot or should not use E10.

Before use of E10 in motor vehicles not listed below, you should consult your handbook or manufacturer to check if the fuel is suitable.


CARS:

Holden All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10 except as listed below. The following models which do not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel: Apollo (1/87-7/89), Nova (2/89-7/94), Barina (1985-1994), Drover (1985-1987), Scurry (1985-1986), Astra (1984-1989).

Ford All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10 except as listed below. The following models may not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel because of drivability concerns: Focus (All), F-series (1986-1992), Ka (All), Maverick (1988-1993), Mondeo (All), Transit (1996 onwards). The following models do not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel: Capri (1989-1994), Courier (All), Econovan (pre-2002), Festiva (1991-1999), Laser 1.3L & 1.5L (1980-1989), Laser 1.6L (1989-2002), Raider (All), Telstar (All).

Mitsubishi All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10. Mitsubishi vehicles with carburettor fuel systems built before 1991 may experience hot fuel handling concerns and may experience a lower level of durability in some fuel system components.

Toyota All Toyota models manufactured locally or imported by Toyota Australia since 1987 will operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel except as listed below. The following models will not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel due to material compatibility issues: Camry with carburettor engines pre July 1989 and Corolla pre July 1994. Supra - pre May 1993, Cressida - pre Feb 1993, Paseo - pre Aug 1995, Starlet - pre July 1999. Land Cruiser - pre Aug 1992, Coaster - pre Jan 1993, Dyna - pre May 1995, Tarago - pre Oct 1996, Hilux , Hiace, & 4 Runner - pre Aug 1997, Townace - pre Dec 1998.

Alfa Romeo All Alfa Romeo vehicles imported since 1998 must run on minimum 95 RON fuel (premium unleaded petrol). Post 1998 Alfa Romeo vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E5 ethanol blended petrol (European Standard EN 228). E10 ethanol blended petrol is not recommended as there are material compatibility and drivability issues. E10 may be used in emergency situations. E10 ethanol blended petrol is not recommended for earlier model Alfa Romeo vehicles due to material compatibility issues.

Audi All current Audi vehicles must run on minimum 95 RON fuel (premium unleaded petrol). All Audi vehicle models since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10 except as listed below: Audi A3 1.8L (Engine Code 'APG' 2000 onwards) and A4 2.0L (Engine Code 'ALT' 2001 onwards) will operate satisfactorily on E5 ethanol blended petrol (European Standard EN 228). However, E10 ethanol blended petrol is not recommended for these vehicle models as there are material compatibility and drivability issues. E10 may be used in emergency situations.

Bentley All petrol engine vehicles since 1990 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

BMW All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Citroen All Citroen vehicles are required to run on minimum 95 RON fuel (premium unleaded petrol). Citroen vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E5 blended petrol (European Standard EN 228). However, E10 blended petrol is not recommended because of drivability and/or material compatibility issues. E10 may be used in emergency situations.

Chrysler All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Daewoo GMDaewoo does not recommend the use of ethanol blended petrol.

Daihatsu Use of E10 in any Daihatsu model vehicles is not recommended because of material incompatibility.

Honda All Honda vehicles should use the fuel recommended in the Owner's Manual. The following models will operate satisfactorily on E10: Insight - 2004 onwards; Civic range (including Civic Hybrid) - 2004 onwards; S2000 - 2004 onwards; CRV - 2003 onwards; MD-X - 2003 onwards; Accord & Accord Euro - 2003 onwards. Honda does not recommend E10 for other vehicle models because there may be drivability issues.

Hyundai Hyundai vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10, but if engine drivability concerns occur revert back to 100% unleaded petrol.

Ferrari Ferrari does not recommend the use of ethanol blend petrol. E10 may be used in emergency situations.

Jaguar All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

KiaAll petrol engined vehicles since 1996 willoperate satisfactorily on E10 but if engine driveability concerns occur revert back to 100% unleaded petrol. Please refer to Owner' s Manual for further details.

Land Rover All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Lexus All models will operate satisfactorily on E10 except for the model listed below: The following model will not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel: IS200 - pre May 2002.

Maserati Maserati does not recommend the use of ethanol blend petrol. E10 may be used in emergency situations.

Mazda Mazda 323 1.8L (1994 onwards), Mazda 323 2.0L (2001 onwards), Mazda2 (11/02 onwards), Mazda3 (All), Premacy (5/02 onwards), Mazda6 (8/02 onwards), 800M and Millenia (8/98 onwards), RX-8 (7/03 onwards), MPV (8/99 onwards), Tribute (All) and E-series (2002 fuel injected models onwards) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10. All other models not listed above do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

Mercedes-Benz All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

MG MGF (2000 onwards), MG ZT (2002 onward) and MG TF (2002 onward) vehicles may operate satisfactorily on E10. However, use of E10 may affect engine calibration and emissions. MGF (pre-2000) does not operate satisfactorily on E10.

Nissan Nissan vehicles manufactured from 1 January 2004 onwards are capable of operation on ethanol-blended fuels up to E10 (10% ethanol), providing that blending of the ethanol component to the petroleum component of the fuel has been properly made at the fuel refinery (ie there is no "splash-blending" of the fuel). For Nissan vehicles manufactured prior to 1 January 2004, Nissan Australia does not recommend the use of E10 because of drivability concerns and/or material compatibility issues.

Peugeot All Peugeot vehicles are required to run on minimum 95 RON fuel (premium unleaded petrol). Peugeot vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E5 blended petrol (European Standard EN 228). However, E10 blended petrol is not recommended because of drivability and/or material compatibility issues. E10 may be used in emergency situations.

Proton All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Rover Rover 75 (2001 onwards) vehicles may operate satisfactorily on E10. However, use of E10 may affect engine calibration and emissions.

Renault All petrol engine vehicles since 2001 will operate satisfactorily on E10 but Renault does not recommend its use

Rolls Royce All petrol engine vehicles since 1990 until 2002 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Saab All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Subaru Subaru Liberty B4 (all year models) and Impreza WRX STI (1999 and 2000) do not operate satisfactorily on E10. All other since MY1990 petrol engine Subaru vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Suzuki Suzuki Alto, Mighty Boy, Wagon R+, Swift/Cino, Ignis Sport (1.5 litre requires 98RON), Sierra, Stockman, Vitara, X-90, Jimny (SOHC) and Super Carry vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10. Suzuki Baleno and Baleno GTX will operate satisfactorily on E10 but Suzuki does not recommend its use in these vehicles. Ignis (1.3 litre), Liana, Grand Vitara/XL-7, Jimny (DOHC) and Carry (1.3 litre) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Volkswagen All Volkswagen vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10, but Volkswagen does not recommend it.

Volvo All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

[7391N]

This is an interesting read. The solution it is presenting looks very promising. Who knows, with all our country's natural resources, we might be a major producer of ethanol :D

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Editorial : Fuel of the future

First posted 00:56am (Mla time) Sept 20, 2005
Inquirer News Service


AS THE PRICE of international crude oil inched closer to $70 a barrel last month, President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo announced a number energy conservation measures to soften the impact of a developing oil crisis. "This is not a simple test of our resiliency but a real challenge to economic survival," she said.

Yet the crisis should not have come as a great surprise. Everyone who cared enough to give it a thought would have realize that the world's supply of fossil fuels could not last forever.

Neither was the crisis completely unpreventable. Conservation measures and environment-friendly, renewable, indigenous, alternative energy sources have been there for the tapping and the taking. Since the 1970s, there have been intermittent calls to lessen the country's dependence on oil. But no administration gave them serious consideration.

Even today, there still seems to be no real serious or orchestrated, high-impact program to address the crisis. For instance, while the administration has announced reductions in energy consumption in government offices and the fielding of a team to ensure compliance, the fleets of gas-guzzling cars that congressmen and other public officials ride to work or to ferry their families to malls and vacation resorts have not diminished.

The country has to come up with more than stopgap measures to address the crisis. And such an enterprise will entail the resolve and cooperation of all sectors, Congress not the least among them.

Car and planes in Brazil are now running on ethanol -- 100 percent or mixed with gasoline or diesel. Other fuel-hungry economies are following in Brazil's footsteps. According to Newsweek, the United States now uses 2 percent ethanol and wants to expand its use. The European Union is eyeing biofuels for 6 percent of its fuel needs. South Korea and Japan are importing ethanol from Brazil. Thailand is constructing over a dozen facilities to extract ethanol from sugar cane and rice husks. And China has joined more than 30 countries building ethanol facilities and growing crops from which ethanol can be extracted.

It is not just the dwindling reserves and the increasing prices of oil that have made the use of alternative fuels imperative and urgent. There are also environmental concerns over the extensive use of the highly polluting oil. Not only that, biofuels, which are extracted from plant oils or animal fats, can be produced by almost every country in the world (unlike oil which can only be produced by the few countries where it can be found), and thus can create jobs in economically lethargic agricultural areas. Brazil, the No. 1 producer of ethanol -- definitely a cleaner, renewable alternative fuel -- "is revolutionizing both the countryside and the auto industry," Newsweek says.

But as usual we are lagging behind, both in terms of promoting the use of ethanol and other biofuels and their local production. True, a couple of small oil companies have announced plans to import ethanol and market it locally. Also, one local company is setting up an ethanol plant in Negros. But these attempts to include biofuels in our energy mix amount to little more than a drop in the bucket.

The country consumes 345,000 barrels of oil per day. It has been estimated that for transportation alone, which accounts for 58 percent of our oil consumption, our annual oil bill amounts to P170 billion. That amount is nothing to sneeze at. If local ethanol producers can be assured of just 10 percent of that market, there may be a lot more interest in investing in ethanol plants and the crops that would supply their needs.

Bukidnon Rep. Miguel Zubiri is looking in that direction. Last month, he filed a bill that seeks to jump-start the ethanol develop program. He has been quoted as saying the program would seek to expand the use of ethanol to 10 percent of the transportation sector's fuel requirements within five years. He has also been talking about establishing at least 27 ethanol factories in different sites across the country, at a cost of P1 billion each.

The details of the Zubiri plan still need to be fleshed out. For instance: What incentives or assistance will an ethanol producer get? Will he be assured of a market even if oil prices go down? How can the welfare of consumers be balanced against the need to make investments in biofuels attractive? But at least someone in Congress is thinking about the oil crisis and proposing one very promising solution. It's time others contributed to the effort.