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  1. Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7,186
    #11
    Di ba, newer engines tend to be more efficient (more powerfull) than older engines of the same displacement?

    For example, according to what I have gathered before, the 1.3 EFI engine of the avanza is almost as powerful as the carburated 1.6 engine of the APV. And the avanza has a better FC. basically the same power with less gas. BTW, I just compared the manufacturer's specs. no dyno data.

  2. Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    22,705
    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by meledson View Post
    Di ba, newer engines tend to be more efficient (more powerfull) than older engines of the same displacement?

    For example, according to what I have gathered before, the 1.3 EFI engine of the avanza is almost as powerful as the carburated 1.6 engine of the APV. And the avanza has a better FC. basically the same power with less gas. BTW, I just compared the manufacturer's specs. no dyno data.
    The 1.6 APV actually makes decent power on the dyno... despite its claim of just 95 hp, it puts out power comparable to other 1.5 - 1.6 "105 - 110 hp" cars on the dyno. Haven't seen an Avanza engine on the dyno, but I'm awfully impressed by the power of the 1.5.

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  3. Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,889
    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by niky View Post
    Back in 89, your typical "compact" sedan, like the Corolla or Civic, could weigh around 800-900 kilograms. By the mid-90's, that would rise to between 900-1000... By 2000, car weights of "compacts" were around 1100 kilograms, minimum, with some pushing 1200... and nowadays, your common (non-2.0) compact weighs between 1200-1300 kilograms.
    Exactly...I remember the Ford Escort in the 1970s is now considered puny for today's standards for a compact car...

    So it seems they have to increase the engine displacement for more power. It follows then that a bigger displacement will consume more fuel in idle and stop-and-go conditions.

    Ditto, the late 1990s-early2000s 1.8L SE Altis lovelife body consuming more than the typical 1.6L verson.

    On the other hand, how does technology affect power output without compromising fuel consumption for a similar displacement engine.
    Case in point: EFI vs. VVTI. Di ba mas matipid ang VVTI? Put it in another way, would fuel consumption be better achieved in a AE101 4AFE Corolla when replaced by an Altis engine both 1.6L displacement?

    --------
    Sa diesel kasi the current 2.5 DiD uses the 4D56 powerplant but the change in injectors gives a wide difference in power output (re: Strada vs. Adventure). Or even the 2.0 (Tucson, Carens) and 2.2 (Sta Fe) CRDI engine of Hyundai di hamak malaki horsepower rating. Now, sa kabilang thread mainit usapan tungkol sa fuel consumption.

    Kaya napag-isip ako sa engine displacement sa sedans--magkalapit lang kasi 1.5, 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0L.

    --------
    From the above post, it seems the consumption of a 2.0L car is in another category by itself, miles apart from the 1.5-1.8L.

    Kasi karamihan ng mga prospective buyers (non-enthusiast at that) when scouting for a new car seem to consider the engine displacement rather than pansinin ang weight, gearing ratio, etc.

  4. Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,467
    #14
    small car + big engine = guzzler?

    i dont think so, it might be fast but the least in consumption is that it isnt worse than the same unit with smaller engine.. case in point, a friend of mine used to have a Sentra Super Saloon B14. when it was still stock it can return with 8km/l FC. when friend shoehorned an SR20DE, it still returned with the same FC, but is waaayyyy quicker than stock, of course.

  5. Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,467
    #15
    small car + big engine = guzzler?

    i dont think so, it might be fast but the least in consumption is that it isnt worse than the same unit with smaller engine.. case in point, a friend of mine used to have a Sentra Super Saloon B14. when it was still stock it can return with 8km/l FC. when friend shoehorned an SR20DE, it still returned with the same FC, but is waaayyyy quicker than stock, of course.

  6. Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    22,705
    #16
    The effects of technology can counterbalance the increase in displacement and weight.

    Take the change from carburators to EFI. While you can tune a carburated engine to be fuel efficient and powerful... you can't get both at the same time... there's no way to adjust the air-fuel mixture to operating conditions. That's why people still ask if a 1.1 or a 1.3 liter engine can make it uphill (even though, nowadays, even an 800cc car can climb up to Baguio)... because old carburators tuned for economy could choke under load and would not run properly (sometimes starve for air) at high altitude.

    EFi gives you both economy and power. But cam profiles (which govern valve lift, duration and timing) on carburated and EFi cars are optimized only for a certain rpm band and use... due to the timing and amount of intake and exhaust air the valves can flow. So a car will run well and fuel efficiently at a certain rpm, but will be choked for power at higher rpms or will run badly at low rpms (if the cam is optimized for top end power).

    That's where VTEC, VVT, VVTi, etcetera come in. VTEC was a revolution, not in that it allowed Honda engines to make a ton of power... no... but rather that it allowed you to have a cam profile aggressive enough to make 160 hp out of just 1.6 liters, yet could switch back to "economy" cams at low rpms.

    Newer modes, like iVTEC and VVTi, can change the cam-timing by moving the camshaft itself around... not just changing cam lobe profiles... which means you can change when the valves open while retaining the same profile (old VTEC changed the valve opening and closing events as a function only of the different cam profile).

    Which all means smoother running at all rpms, more power up top and more economy down low. And everyone's happy. ;)

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

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War of the Engine Displacement: 1.5, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0