nissan navara brute or isuzu dmax lt 4x4

[AKI125]

^^^
well said sir

Meron pa isang con ang navara yun rear seat niya, its too straight but for me ok lang kasi i seldom having anyone seating at the the back since i use my truck for biz talaga. So far based on my computation ive loaded my truck with 45 round bottles of purified water. One containers has 20 liter that is equivalent 20 kgs x 45 of those = 900 kgs and my rear suspension just drop an inch. With this i can still run 120kph effortless.

[AKI125]

Guys, let there be peace on earth.

First things first, maawa kayo kay TS kasi pinapagulo ninyo yun topic.

He was asking brute against dmax LT. After seeing a LT awhile ago pandak lang pala ito. To be honest ive learn alot from this thread but nevertheless we are already out of the topic. I suggest if you want to post here, please stick to the topic.

After seeing the LT model and comparing it with the brute model, the brute has higher ground clearance. Sa engine performance, lets put it this way im not fun of looking at my speedometer while driving but in this case i was able to glance my speedometer and rpm awhile ago while travelling edsa. My rpm is at 1700-1750 and im already running 90kph at 5th gear. Im not hear to lambast anyone and didnt purposely went to a isuzu dealership to check on the LT solely to know who is right and who is wrong with regards to their information. Its been awhile thst im looking for a new service for my company. Baka may magtampo na mitsu guys, just to let you guys know i even went to union to talk to their vp to ask for further discount if ever im getting another adventure or a 2012 strada from them.

Again, the brute comes with a mid level engine and not the high end, meaning 144ps/356nm and not the 174ps/403nm. Please if you think youre not helping in a way the TS i suggest if you want to post at this thread then keep it to yourself or make yourself another thread.

[Ry_Tower]

Guys, let there be peace on earth.

First things first, maawa kayo kay TS kasi pinapagulo ninyo yun topic.

He was asking brute against dmax LT. After seeing a LT awhile ago pandak lang pala ito. To be honest ive learn alot from this thread but nevertheless we are already out of the topic. I suggest if you want to post here, please stick to the topic.

After seeing the LT model and comparing it with the brute model, the brute has higher ground clearance. Sa engine performance, lets put it this way im not fun of looking at my speedometer while driving but in this case i was able to glance my speedometer and rpm awhile ago while travelling edsa. My rpm is at 1700-1750 and im already running 90kph at 5th gear. Im not hear to lambast anyone and didnt purposely went to a isuzu dealership to check on the LT solely to know who is right and who is wrong with regards to their information. Its been awhile thst im looking for a new service for my company. Baka may magtampo na mitsu guys, just to let you guys know i even went to union to talk to their vp to ask for further discount if ever im getting another adventure or a 2012 strada from them.

Again, the brute comes with a mid level engine and not the high end, meaning 144ps/356nm and not the 174ps/403nm. Please if you think youre not helping in a way the TS i suggest if you want to post at this thread then keep it to yourself or make yourself another thread.

So between the two sir what would you prefer? I'd pick the Navarra brute vs the dmax LT just because for purpose of hauling kasi and that's is the choice of the TS. Bigger cargo bed, higher clearance as you said and definitely a better engine. Looks are subjective kasi. Interior, not much concern for me since pang-harabas eh.

http://www.topgear.com.ph/buyers-guide/compare/682/818/ - the price difference is justifiable IMO since there is 2 airbags, an ABS and a better engine!

Sorry I was kind of OT na rin a while ago. Hehe. My bad.

[GTi]

Nagtataka lang talaga ako. 294Nm lang ba talaga ang torque ng 4JJ1-TC D-Max? Ang alam ko 294Nm na ang torque ng 4JH1-TC na D-Max A/T (279Nm for the M/T). Di ba kaya pinalitan ng marketing department for some unknown reason? Since ang inadvertise sa Alterra is 315Nm. Same with the Hilux (advertised 343Nm but 410Nm with the Prado) and the Strada 3.2L (advertised 343Nm but 373Nm in the Pajero).

Kung yung Navara Brute pala uses only the 144ps/356Nm engine, dun na talaga ako sa D-Max LT 4x4. This means the Navara does not have the high end horsepower advantage AND its weak on the low rpms. The 4JJ1-TC's torque plateau at 1400-3400rpm is undoubtedly one of the longest that I have seen.

[Ry_Tower]

^ iba talaga kapag MT and AT pagdating sa torque in some instances. Also gaya ng Pajero vs. MS/Strada, much better nga if more power yung Paj because it's heavier din naman and for more value for your money. Same with the Prado and Fort IMO.

BTW, afaik the Dmax LT is just the 4x2.

[GTi]

Oonga. Did they really detune the engine? Or did they just change the figures para hindi maglo-lose face ang higher end models nila na pareho lang ang engines nila sa mga lower end siblings nila? Since as posted earlier by bro hinDMaxsiado yung Hilux nga when dynoed by Speedlab showed 383Nm of torque at 2500rpm. Closer to the 410Nm of the Prado than the quoted 343Nm, don't you think?

[Ry_Tower]

Oonga. Did they really detune the engine? Or did they just change the figures para hindi maglo-lose face ang higher end models nila na pareho lang ang engines nila sa mga lower end siblings nila? Since as posted earlier by bro hinDMaxsiado yung Hilux nga when dynoed by Speedlab showed 383Nm of torque at 2500rpm. Closer to the 410Nm of the Prado than the quoted 343Nm, don't you think?

^ Sir GTi mas mataas ata yung ground clearance ng Navara Brute vs the Dmax LT based dun sa link I posted before (post # 53).

Hindi ata detuned, more of higher boost ata ng turbo yung sa Paj and Prado. So para nga IMO hindi masyadong masakit sa bibili ng mas mahal na sasakyan na kahit papano eh mas malakas ito dun sa midsize SUV at pick-up brothers nila. IMO lang naman.

Ewan ko lang sa dyno result na yan ha.

[hinDMaxsiado]

Nagtataka lang talaga ako. 294Nm lang ba talaga ang torque ng 4JJ1-TC D-Max? Ang alam ko 294Nm na ang torque ng 4JH1-TC na D-Max A/T (279Nm for the M/T). Di ba kaya pinalitan ng marketing department for some unknown reason? Since ang inadvertise sa Alterra is 315Nm. Same with the Hilux (advertised 343Nm but 410Nm with the Prado) and the Strada 3.2L (advertised 343Nm but 373Nm in the Pajero).

Kung yung Navara Brute pala uses only the 144ps/356Nm engine, dun na talaga ako sa D-Max LT 4x4. This means the Navara does not have the high end horsepower advantage AND its weak on the low rpms. The 4JJ1-TC's torque plateau at 1400-3400rpm is undoubtedly one of the longest that I have seen.

^ iba talaga kapag MT and AT pagdating sa torque in some instances. Also gaya ng Pajero vs. MS/Strada, much better nga if more power yung Paj because it's heavier din naman and for more value for your money.

Tignan mo 1KD-FTV ng Fort vs the Prado.

Sirs GTi and Ry_Tower, if you look into other Isuzu's and Chevrolet's websites, the 4JJ1-TC engine (both the standard like the one in the Philippines, and the hi-power, or the 4JJ1-TCX) their horsepower and torque ratings were taken as NET hp, or horsepower by DIN standards.... i don't know with other manufacturers though, not really sure.

The net hp rating by DIN standards is taken after all the friction losses (termed as parasitic losses) have been taken into account and subtracted from the engine horsepower and torque. This takes into account losses from the transmission gears all the way to the wheel.

Going back to the Philippine model DMax, heto Sir GTi ang sinasabi mong mahabang peak flat torque ng 4JJ1-TC standard, 294 Nm from 1400 rpm to 3400 rpm.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/...erformance.jpg


But how i would have liked it more kung andito lang sana sa Pinas ang 3.0-litre DMax VGS 4JJ1-TCX, 360 Nm torque from 1800 rpm to 2800 rpm.
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/...J1-TCXDmax.jpg


Ang Isuzu DMax lang ang long-stroke diesel sa lahat ng mga pickups dito sa Pilipinas at maging sa abroad amongst all 3.0-litre and 2.5-litre diesels, kaya very steady ang torque nito at mahaba along the rev range. Halos kasing-stroke ng DMax 3.0-litre ang 3.2-litre na Strada kahit malaki ng di hamak ang bore ng 3.2-litre Strada.

Kaya mabagal din at steady lang ang acceleration ng DMax along the rev range dahil na rin sa pagka-long stroke nito, which makes it better in ascents and for loading purposes, especially if traction at gapang is your concern.... Kaya din ito ang pinaka-matipid kumain ng crudo sa lahat ng pickups dito kahit pa i-kumpara ito sa mga 2.5-litre diesels, because it DOES NOT rev as freely like the shorter-stroke diesels. Ang bore x stroke ng 3.0-litre DMax ay 95.4 mm x 104.9 mm. Ang stroke ng 3.2-litre Strada in comparison ay 105.0 mm, halos kahawig na ng DMax.

Regarding naman sa pinagkaiba ng Alterra as 315 Nm net torque versus ang DMax as only 294 Nm, ito ay dahil lang sa nagkaiba sila ng exhaust. Mas maganda ang exhaust sir ng Alterra.

Regarding naman sa power at torque difference ng 3.0-litre 1KD-FTV ng Hilux AT and MT (163 ps and 343 Nm at 1400 rpm to 3200 rpm) at ng Prado (172 ps and 410 Nm from 1600 rpm to 2800 rpm), magkaiba sila ng "boosting" properties.... Siguradong mas mataas ang boost pressure ng Prado kaysa sa Hilux kahit pa iisa lang ang makina nila. Ito din ang pilit nating sinasabi na kaya matataas ang peak power ng mga ibang 2.5-litre diesels dahil lang sa mga turbochargers nila na mataas magbigay ng "boost" at hindi dahil sa attributes ng displacement nila....

Typical naman sa mga Japanese 3.0-litres na ang mga turbochargers nila ay para lang bawasan ang "lag" ng diesel at hindi para i-boost ito ng todo all throughout the powerband.... unless we are talking about the German-made 3.0-litre SUV's (VW Touareg, Audi Q7, etc) that employ the bi-turbocharger or twin-turbo kaya umaabot ng hanggang 500 Nm to 550 Nm ang mga torque nila. Ang 2.0-litre VW Amarok pickup, according sa specs nito ay gumagamit din ng bi-turbocharger at abot ng 163 ps ang power nito at 400 Nm ang torque nito.

[hinDMaxsiado]

^ iba talaga kapag MT and AT pagdating sa torque in some instances. Also gaya ng Pajero vs. MS/Strada, much better nga if more power yung Paj because it's heavier din naman and for more value for your money. Same with the Prado and Fort IMO.

BTW, afaik the Dmax LT is just the 4x2.

NOPE sir, there is now a 4x4 DMax LT manual-tranny that is 4x4 and it uses the 3.0-litre 4JJ1-TC standard.

2.5-litre ang 4x2 MT na LT.

Ito nga rin ang tanong ko sa unang page sa TS kung ito ba yung DMax LT na "3.0 TD Intercooler" ang nakasulat sa likod at mababa ang pickup.... Pakibasa lang Boss Rye bago maghaka-haka sir

[Ry_Tower]

NOPE sir, there is now a 4x4 DMax LT manula-tranny that is 4x4 and it uses the 3.0-litre 4JJ1-TC standard.

2.5-litre ang 4x2 MT na LT.

Ito nga rin ang tanong ko sa unang page sa TS kung ito ba yung DMax LT na "3.0 TD Intercooler" ang nakasulat sa likod at mababa ang pickup.... Pakibasa lang Boss Rye bago maghaka-haka sir

Kaya nga afaik eh, i'm not that sure kasi. I didn't mean it as sureball.

Pakibasa din post ko sir.

[LeBRONghini6]

Kung LT 4x2 sobrang layo ng price difference ang katapat ng navara brute ay ung LS na dmax na. Kung hauling ang need ng TS Dmax talaga ang para sa kanya dahil sa mahabang peak flat torque nito.

[AKI125]

For me both vehicles has their pros and cons. Kung hauling and will be use mainly sa metro then brute has the advantage. Kung gagamitin sa budok talaga i wont suggest the LT model of tge dmax due to lack of ground clearance perhaps hi end model nalang kunin niya. Like a mentioned before the only downside for me sa brute is the max 800kgs load since the suspension of brute is the same with the 4x4 hi end model pero may good side rin kasi mas softer yun ride niya compared sa 4x2. Wala daw test drive unit ng LT sa dealership pinutahan ko kaya hindi ko alam kung kas ok yun ride ng LT compared sa regular line up nila.

Btw, brute's interior is gray in color while the regular navaras comes with biege interior.

[GTi]

Mataas naman ang ground clearance ng D-Max ah, yung Navara yung mababa. And if the D-Max LT's ground clearance is too low,upgrading to larger tires should do the trick.

[AKI125]

Guys, the agent i talk to this afternoon texted me and informing me that the dmax lt i saw is a 4x2 and not the 4x4. He told me na yun na daw yun 4x4. He asked me to go back early next week since they dont have in stock of the 4x4 variant of the LT

[Ifugi_Navi]

Ala eh mga sir. Lesson learned ika nga eh. Ngayon lang ulit ako nakapag-post ulit sa tsikot eh. Dahil sa away away na ganito eh.

Hwag na bastusin ang Navara eh at hwag na mag-away away eh, at ito isuzu pa rin: 4BA1 lang katapat niyan lahat na yan lahat ng pinagtatalunan eh. 4BA1, Pang city, pang provincial road at pang mountain (ifugao sa amin o sa sagada) eh. Anywhere ika nga eh. Mod, sir eh, papatawa lang. Peace po eh.

[hinDMaxsiado]

Guys, the agent i talk to this afternoon texted me and informing me that the dmax lt i saw is a 4x2 and not the 4x4. He told me na yun na daw yun 4x4. He asked me to go back early next week since they dont have in stock of the 4x4 variant of the LT

Sir AKI, ganito po halos makikita niyo sa DMax 4x4 LT (nakita ko na rin po kasi last month at sadyang mababa po talaga)....

1. Very basic po ang interior, maging ang cambio po nito very basic lang ang hitsura.

2. Ang rear bumper po nito ay kulay "black" at parang cylindrical-na-two-sided flat bar na hindi po tulad ng ibang 3.0-litre DMax na may plastic at shiny silver-chrome cover.

3. Ang nakasulat na emblem po sa trunk gate nito ay "3.0 TD Intercooler" instead of "3.0 Ddi-iTEQ", ngunit ang makina po nito ay 4JJ1-TC standard (3.0 Ddi-iTEQ) na walang cover parang ganito po na inalisan lang ng cover na kita niyo po kaagad ang turbocharger na exposed po sa left-side ng makina (right side when facing the vehicle):


4. Very basic po ang hitsura nito na sadyang pang-harabas talaga po ang dating, ngunit ang panel nito ay parang pang-race type na kulay "red" hindi po "blue" tulad ng DMax LS at LX models. Halos po hawig ang panel nito sa mga Thailand-issue DMax.


Heto po ang paper-specs nitong 3.0-litre DMax 4x4 LT
http://www.isuzuphil.com/wp-content/...20LT%204x4.pdf

[cydepx44]

Sir AKI, ganito po halos makikita niyo sa DMax 4x4 LT (nakita ko na rin po kasi last month at sadyang mababa po talaga)....

1. Very basic po ang interior, maging ang cambio po nito very basic lang ang hitsura.

2. Ang rear bumper po nito ay kulay "black" at parang cylindrical-na-two-sided flat bar na hindi po tulad ng ibang 3.0-litre DMax na may plastic at shiny silver-chrome cover.

3. Ang nakasulat na emblem po sa trunk gate nito ay "3.0 TD Intercooler" instead of "3.0 Ddi-iTEQ", ngunit ang makina po nito ay 4JJ1-TC standard (3.0 Ddi-iTEQ) na walang cover parang ganito po na inalisan lang ng cover na kita niyo po kaagad ang turbocharger na exposed po sa left-side ng makina (right side when facing the vehicle):


4. Very basic po ang hitsura nito na sadyang pang-harabas talaga po ang dating, ngunit ang panel nito ay parang pang-race type na kulay "red" hindi po "blue" tulad ng DMax LS at LX models. Halos po hawig ang panel nito sa mga Thailand-issue DMax.


Heto po ang paper-specs nitong 3.0-litre DMax 4x4 LT
http://www.isuzuphil.com/wp-content/...20LT%204x4.pdf

If that's the case...

sir TS i'd suggest getting the dmax:
If you won't be the one personally using the truck.
But i'd suggest getting the brute:
If you'll be personally using and driving either for work or pleasure.

The reason: mas forgiving ang suspension ng brute. If you can test drive a unit try to find the worst road and drive on it at full throttle. Magugulat ka as your anxiety over expecting a bumpy ride turns to pleasant surprise at how sedan like the truck took those edsa ruts. Spacious pa ang interior you can retract the front seats so much you won't be able to reach the pedals properly. What all this means is you arrive at your destination fresher and WORK won't feel so much as WORK. Dmax i won't contest it's reliability being a thoroughbred workhorse. Isuzu yan! Kaya nga karamihan trak ko (from elf, forward, gigamax cargo, giga tractor) isuzu eh, for reliability. yun nga lang, if you are not the one who's going to be using it personally, why shell out the extra dough? Katwiran ko nga, ibabanga at sasalaulain lang mga drayber ko yan... Kung pwede nga kahit wala na aircon para mas matipid saka hindi pa tinutulugan, basta hindi tumutirik hehehe

[AKI125]

^^^^^^
hehe!

This is so true, pikit mata nalang ako. I caught my driver just staying inside the vehicle nagpapa aircon and leaving his partner to do all the deliveries. Kung nakita niya ako tsaka mahihiya tsaka papayatin yun makina. I also do my rounds kaya madalas rin kami nagkikita sa mga delivery bays ng malls. Kaya plan ko low end lang bibili ko kung sakali

[AKI125]

Buti pa mga isuzu vehicles ninyo tumatagal coz our NKR 2.7 tons na local unit 2 times na naoverhual. Just last month kakarelease lang ulit after overhual, just learned na nahuli nanaman na mga ASBU. Its a complete opposite of the word durability. We planned to sale off the unit after retrieving the plate number. We had enough of this troublesome delivery van of ours. Before we got a XUVi matic, ang kupad masyado tumakbo kaya 3 years palang binenta na kasi walang may gusto gumamit kaya pinalitan ng xtrail then this year pinalitan na yun xtrail to a tucson crdi which i believe tatagal ito sa family namin kasi everyone is happy with it.

[hinDMaxsiado]

Buti pa mga isuzu vehicles ninyo tumatagal coz our NKR 2.7 tons na local unit 2 times na naoverhual. Just last month kakarelease lang ulit after overhual, just learned na nahuli nanaman na mga ASBU. Its a complete opposite of the word durability. We planned to sale off the unit after retrieving the plate number. We had enough of this troublesome delivery van of ours. Before we got a XUVi matic, ang kupad masyado tumakbo kaya 3 years palang binenta na kasi walang may gusto gumamit kaya pinalitan ng xtrail then this year pinalitan na yun xtrail to a tucson crdi which i believe tatagal ito sa family namin kasi everyone is happy with it.

Hay naku sir, sinabi mo pa hehe ....Makukupad po talaga ang Crosswind. 1997 pa po ang makina ng Crosswind at pilit pa rin binebenta ng Isuzu na walang engine upgrades. Ok lang po sana nang nakuha po ni misis ang sa kanya way back 2003, medyo acceptable pa noon, pero naman sir 14 years nang existing ang makinang yan at pinipilit pa rin ibenta ng Isuzu with only facelifts after facelifts....
....Nabulaga nga ako sir na ang Crosswind Sportivo na hindi man lang CRDi ang makina at 2.5-litre lang eh mahal pa sa DMax LS manual-tranny haha!!!!

Tama yang Hyundai Tucson sir at magaganda naman talaga mga yan ....Nagbabalak din po ako actually na kumuha na ng Santa Fe R eVGT para sa lumalaki ko na familia sir, kaso pina-pangarap ko pa rin na sana dalhin ng Hyundai dito ang 6-speed manual-transmission ng Santa Fe na binebenta din sa ibang bansa, especially just this recently sa Hyundai forum, i heard about complaints at problems sa auto-tranny po nito, which somehow is a concern para sa akin....