Flood Survivability: Spacegear GLX 4wd vs Starex 99

[xsugo]

I'm about to buy a second hand van for my family. My Toyota Liteace 92 is ageing and Gasoline prices is really uncontrollable.

I'm now zeroing my site at these 2 van ... Spacegear GLX 4WD vs Starex 99~2000 diesel . My maximum budget is 320k only.

Now my concern is during flood and some points that I will mention. Lets face it Ondoy will happen again and some how we will be affected and in some cases we cannot turn back with it.

Lets pressumed both van is in very good condition and very good conversion.

Here are my questions
1. Which of the 2 van will survive in a 2ft flood? 3ft flood?
2. Starex - I haven't seen a lifted Starex well at least 2 to 3 inches, is there any major risk or any drawbacks? If there is any saan shops pwede magpalift? how much?
3. Spacegear - nadadaya ba ako ng mata ko bakit parang mas malapad yung tingin ko sa local na GLX kaysa dun sa Japan na GLX 4WD?
4. Sa mga pang-ilalim alin ang mas matibay yung sa SPACEGEAR GLX 4wd or yung sa Starex 99~2000. Pag nagbabasa ako sa mga topics dito sa tsikot parang naamoy mas madaling masira yung pangilalim ng starex kaysa sa spacegear or dahil 4wd si Spacegear?
5. Anong ideal na makina ipalit sa STAREX 99~2000 in 50k budget, ayoko CRDI dahil mahal. Yung makina na para lumakas lang ng kaunti ... like 2.6 to 2.8cc diesel.
6. Diesel consumption, which of the two ang mas matipid for daily use? and trip to Baguio?

Hope you can help me ... in 3 months time I'll be buying a van in replacement of my old Liteace.

[GTi]

The Starex is basically just a rebadged, reskinned and more refined Space Gear. In terms of flood wading capabilities, the Space Gear should have the upper hand due to the taller ground clearance and even more so if you have a snorkel installed. The fuel mileage of both are rather dismal AFAIK, especially in matic form. One may be better than the other depending on load conditions and road terrain. You may also be interested in getting a 4x4 Starex, there are some of them in the market and it relieves you of conversion problems. Engine transplant for the Starex? I'm not sure if that will be a good thing to do but finding a 4M40 used in the Space Gear should do the trick with no or minimal modification.

[OTEP]

1. Surviving depends on your definition of surviving. Is it making it across without any damage or consequences or just plain surviving?
Anything below the door sill is easy enough for both of these vans. Just change the differential and transmission fluids regularly along with some bearing grease and brake cleaning. The converted unit might have more holes on its firewall due to the conversion process which may allow water to enter the cabin should you decide to ford deep water.

2. Just get a 4x4 Starex. As said, the Starex is a licensed and refined version of the Space Gear. There are some units on the market. Some in the top of the line 'CLUB' version. Regular vanilla joe 'SVX' versions are also available.

3. Yep nadaya ka. They are the same width door skin to door skin. Some Japanese models are wider still owing to their fender flares.

4. Pretty much the same in the durability area considering both use the same brand of replacement parts for the underchassis.

5. A Starex Turbo Intercooler 4x4 model already makes 100horsepower (same as a 2000 model 'millenium' look Starex). Same as a Spacegear with a similar engine (local Spacegear diesels with no intercooler makes less power). How much power do you need or want?

6. Again they are the same car basically. So don't expect a big difference in consumption when equipped with similar engines and transmissions. The 2wd Starex might get better mileage due to better aerodynamics and lighter weight but not by much. The 4x4 Starex will get the same mileage as the Spacegear.

[dr. d]

if i don't need the space and the seats, i'd get a diesel revo, adventure or hilander. easier to drive na, cheaper on the fuel pa.
and engine-under-driver configurations don't ford floods too well.
and i would forget planning my car purchase for ondoy. that was a fluke. think daily use.. otherwise, you'll never be happy with anything short of a hull with wheels..

[OTEP]

The Starex/SpaceGear are both full front engined vehicles na po. Delica Star Wagon yung nasa ilalim ng seats ang engine.

Personally, the Starex turbo intercooler with a/t is way better to drive than a Revo or Crosswind (both a/t's also). Mas malakas lang ng konti sa fuel. But it is a full 9 passenger wagon with room to spare for luggage. It's just like driving a GEN II Pajero. The Crosswind feels anemic and the Revo feels very stiff compared to the Starex.

[xsugo]

1. Surviving depends on your definition of surviving. Is it making it across without any damage or consequences or just plain surviving?
Anything below the door sill is easy enough for both of these vans. Just change the differential and transmission fluids regularly along with some bearing grease and brake cleaning. The converted unit might have more holes on its firewall due to the conversion process which may allow water to enter the cabin should you decide to ford deep water.

2. Just get a 4x4 Starex. As said, the Starex is a licensed and refined version of the Space Gear. There are some units on the market. Some in the top of the line 'CLUB' version. Regular vanilla joe 'SVX' versions are also available.

3. Yep nadaya ka. They are the same width door skin to door skin. Some Japanese models are wider still owing to their fender flares.

4. Pretty much the same in the durability area considering both use the same brand of replacement parts for the underchassis.

5. A Starex Turbo Intercooler 4x4 model already makes 100horsepower (same as a 2000 model 'millenium' look Starex). Same as a Spacegear with a similar engine (local Spacegear diesels with no intercooler makes less power). How much power do you need or want?

6. Again they are the same car basically. So don't expect a big difference in consumption when equipped with similar engines and transmissions. The 2wd Starex might get better mileage due to better aerodynamics and lighter weight but not by much. The 4x4 Starex will get the same mileage as the Spacegear.

Sir Otep,

Thanks for the great info.

1) I was refering Spacegear GLX 4wd (converted) comparing to Starex 1999~2000. You mean sir their engine are almost the same in power 2.8 vs 2.5?

2) Power? just enough to make across from 2ft to 3ft water if possible without any damage or consequence and Probably flash floods.

3) For Starex 4x4 aren't they are in the range of 400k plus. I think I mentioned my budget is 300k only.

Hindi po ba generally mas matibay ang mga pangilalim ng 4wd kaysa 2wd? Especially in the case of Spacegear 4wd(converted) vs Starex 1999~2000?

Pwede pa ba ilift or lakihan ang tire ng starex para tumaas ng konti habol ko sana kahit mga 2in lang. Any disadvantages or consequence?

[xsugo]

if i don't need the space and the seats, i'd get a diesel revo, adventure or hilander. easier to drive na, cheaper on the fuel pa.
and engine-under-driver configurations don't ford floods too well.
and i would forget planning my car purchase for ondoy. that was a fluke. think daily use.. otherwise, you'll never be happy with anything short of a hull with wheels..

Sorry sir taga-Pasig ako. I need to think about Ondoy also or any flood. 3 weeks ang baha sa amin. At kadalasan pag umulan ng malakas talaga karamihan baha na sa mga dadaanan ko pauwi. At kadalasan umuuwi din kami ng Asingan, Pangasinan kung magpakawala na naman yung San Roque Dam? Tsaka we always go to Agno river which is a quarry site so rough road and hope to do some river crossing probably 1 and half deep water.

Minsan kasi nakita ko lumusong yung Delica na 4wd yung before Spacegear ang itsura ... lusot. Yung Spacegear na 4wd na converted or Starex 1999~2000 lulusot kaya?

[OTEP]

Sir Otep,

Thanks for the great info.

1) I was refering Spacegear GLX 4wd (converted) comparing to Starex 1999~2000. You mean sir their engine are almost the same in power 2.8 vs 2.5?

2) Power? just enough to make across from 2ft to 3ft water if possible without any damage or consequence and Probably flash floods.

3) For Starex 4x4 aren't they are in the range of 400k plus. I think I mentioned my budget is 300k only.

Hindi po ba generally mas matibay ang mga pangilalim ng 4wd kaysa 2wd? Especially in the case of Spacegear 4wd(converted) vs Starex 1999~2000?

Pwede pa ba ilift or lakihan ang tire ng starex para tumaas ng konti habol ko sana kahit mga 2in lang. Any disadvantages or consequence?

1. 2.8 makes 120 bhp, 2.5 makes 100bhp. For me its a non-issue. I've driven both engines in a Pajero and frankly, the extra 20bhp is appreciated if there but not entirely missed when its not. The Spacegear is also saddled with the extra weight of the 4x4 drivetrain (front axle and transfer case).

2. Water fording is a skill and without proper training, even 'real' SUV's can get damaged. The Space Gear and Starex were not designed as boats. And as I said, anything below the lower edge of the door sill is easy. Anything above the midpoint of the tire is pushing it already. I drive in water with a bow wave up the top edge of the front bumper or the headlamps and I've done this on a variety of vehicles. From a Suzuki Jimny to a '96 Pajero. I can't guarantee any results should you try to do this on your own vehicle. Heck, I can't even people to NOT step on the clutch while fording water and instead they employ the jeepney driver method of revving the engine like sh*t while in the water. Which isn't really what you're supposed to be doing midstream.

3. Ok, didn't know what the going rate was for ex-Korean Starex vans. They're cheaper than local ones.

4x4 vs 4x2 on these vans isn't really rocket science. The vans are bascially 4x2 pick ups underneath so they are pretty strong. They are not traditional road going minivans like, say a Kia Carnival or Chrysler Town and Country. So the addition of a front drive system really didn't entail much reinforcement or modifications. The parts that usually fail like ball joints and tie rods are easily replaceable.

Getting a 2" lift on a Mitsubishi Pajero is already very difficult. It's the same case with the Starex which uses the same suspension design. And it can get expensive. So might as well save up and go for a 4x4 Starex if you really need the height. Even a Korean surplus (with the B plates). At least you won't have modification or conversion issues.

[xsugo]

1. 2.8 makes 120 bhp, 2.5 makes 100bhp. For me its a non-issue. I've driven both engines in a Pajero and frankly, the extra 20bhp is appreciated if there but not entirely missed when its not. The Spacegear is also saddled with the extra weight of the 4x4 drivetrain (front axle and transfer case).

2. Water fording is a skill and without proper training, even 'real' SUV's can get damaged. The Space Gear and Starex were not designed as boats. And as I said, anything below the lower edge of the door sill is easy. Anything above the midpoint of the tire is pushing it already. I drive in water with a bow wave up the top edge of the front bumper or the headlamps and I've done this on a variety of vehicles. From a Suzuki Jimny to a '96 Pajero. I can't guarantee any results should you try to do this on your own vehicle. Heck, I can't even people to NOT step on the clutch while fording water and instead they employ the jeepney driver method of revving the engine like sh*t while in the water. Which isn't really what you're supposed to be doing midstream.

3. Ok, didn't know what the going rate was for ex-Korean Starex vans. They're cheaper than local ones.

4x4 vs 4x2 on these vans isn't really rocket science. The vans are bascially 4x2 pick ups underneath so they are pretty strong. They are not traditional road going minivans like, say a Kia Carnival or Chrysler Town and Country. So the addition of a front drive system really didn't entail much reinforcement or modifications. The parts that usually fail like ball joints and tie rods are easily replaceable.

Getting a 2" lift on a Mitsubishi Pajero is already very difficult. It's the same case with the Starex which uses the same suspension design. And it can get expensive. So might as well save up and go for a 4x4 Starex if you really need the height. Even a Korean surplus (with the B plates). At least you won't have modification or conversion issues.

Again lots and lots of thanks sir Otep.
Palagay ko Starex 4x4 talaga yung bagay sa akin ... Reading from the threads which is kokonti lang talaga ang bumabangit sa mga 4wd or 4x4 na Starex dito sa tsikot. Wala pa halos bumangit kung gaano kalakas ang consumption nito sa Diesel ... like going to baguio if 4x2 Starex mga 2500 pesos then 4x4 Starex will be something in 3000 pesos.

Sa ibang website ang specs na nakita ko almost the same yung consumption like 8/100km yung 4x4 yung 4x2 parang nasa 9/100 basta halos isang puntos lang ang difference, kasi nga halos pareho 2.5cc yung engine but magkaiba lang sa hp. Pero syempre iba yung galing sa actual experience baka kasi yung specs na nabanggit ko sa itaas bagong-bago yon.

Tapos yung ground clearance 9in sa 4x2 then sa 4x4 13in halos 4in difference ... which is OK na rin.

Sir, bakit nga ba konti lang ang 4x4 na Starex especially yung model na 98 to 2000 (sorry yun lang kaya ng budget ko)? according sa mga threads dito parang may mahirap palitan na pyesa dun sa transmission pag nasira or talagang sirain yung transmission?

[OTEP]

I used to get around 7-8km/L on a 2003 Starex 4x2 A/T with the 2.5 turbo intercooler engine (same engine as a 1996 Pajero). I tried the Starex 4x4 M/T of my friend but I did not have time to get a good mileage figure. I just used it around town.

The transmission of the 4x4 and the 4x2 are the same. They just added a transfer case and a front drive system. I drive a 1995 model 4x4 now (not a Hyundai, though) and I've never had anything fail or need replacing with respect to the 4x4 system of the vehicle. And I intentionally drive the vehicle off road both for work and leisure. The 4x4 parts of the Starex are still Mitsubishi based so I don't think you will have any major headache with it. And should the transfer case or front drive system fail, you can still drive it around in 4x2 mode just like any other Starex van.

The model was not officially released here locally until the series was nearing it's end of life nor was is very much promoted. Hence few units running around. And people who needed the 4wd capability still went with traditional SUV's at the time.

I'd still like to have one, though.

[xsugo]

Sir Otep ...
sabi nyo sa ibang thread pwedeng i-lift ang starex using lift kit ng Delica Spacegear? any consequence sir? and what maximum lift?

[GTi]

Here are some ads of 4x4 Starex's, hope they are of some use to you. I'd suggest that after you get it, facelift it to Millenium Edition and then change to an aftermarket filter for more power. IMHO huwag na ang lift, its tall enough as it is. Baka hindi na kumasya sa mga garahe eh. I suggest palit nalang to bigger tires for more ride height, I find the stock tires of the Starex to be rather on the small side especially for a 4x4.

http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/vi...dai+Starex+4x4
http://www.adpost.com/ph/vehicles/106183/
http://www.carfinderph.com//full_details/94363

[xsugo]

Thanks sir Otep ... yun din iniisip kung lakihan ko na lang ang tires para tumaas ng konti ... ang 4x2 na Starex. Ano po ba ang adviceable na ilalaki ng gulong ng Starex. Any consequence?

Sorry sir wla din kasi ako alam sa sasakyan ... electronics maasahan mo ako pero sa mechanical ng sasakyan wla. Pag nagpalaki ka ba ng gulong kailangan mo rin palitan yung rim ... I'm talking of Diameter and width?

[GTi]

Akala ko you need offroading capability din? Bat naging 4x2 Starex? IMHO basta kumasya dun sa wheel well ng kotse. AFAIK papalit ka lang ng rim kapag ang diameter ng tire is more than the stock 15 inches. Siguro ang 235/70/R15 tires pwede na? Consequences? If you use all terrain tires, siguro may kaunting compromise on road comfort and on road handling? Not so sure.

[xsugo]

Sa akin lang po kasi kung Starex ang napili kong bilhin since yung 4x4 medyo beyond my budget so bagsak ako sa 4x2, ang objective ko lang po kasi sana mas mataas yung ground clearance ng starex kaysa sa stock or usual na nakikita ko, para at least maka-survive sa mga baha kahit 2in lift lang or kahit na 1.5 in. Pasig po kasi kami medyo yung daan lagi binabaha ...