What Family MPV - Venture or Zafira

[cbcnestormn]

Hello Friends,

I posted this question yesterday on the Chevy forum but got no comments yet, so here it is for all to readsorry its long)

I need a family van and need versatility of a 7 or more seater vehicle.
I am thinking of buying either a 02 Zafira php 275K or a Venture php
350k..what would you prefer if my concerns were reliability and costs of
maintainance. Pls set aside gas mileage as an issue. Both cars have horror
stories posted on this website but I am hoping that the lower acquisition cost
will offset future problems and if I am lucky I might save in the end.
Is the Venture really prone to the ff problems I have seen posted? How do I
avoid them:
1) Overheating, a top overhaul costing Php 30k +
2) Electrical system troubles, an ECU costing Php 80k?
3) Front wheel bearing/ axle shaft costing Php 80K?
4) Fuel pump conk out cosing PHp 30k
5) Suspension troubles?

Any other things to check before I buy? The unit I saw today has supposedly
32Tkms only, seems clean, rode and drove smoothly except the engine has a
noisy bearing noise in that the Chevy casa told the owner is normal tsk tsk.
the owner showed me receipts for replacement of crankshaft pulley, alternator
idle tension bearing. I saw there are 3 other tension bearings but the owner
claims the casa said those were still ok so not to worry.
The Zafira I saw has an indicated 26TKms, also a clean interior, (since this is
a car dealer unit it was obviously given a thorough detailing job), nice shiny
copper brown metallic paint ( the only one I have seen). But I doubt the
mileage because I note the brake discs are deeply worn about the thickniess
of a 1 peso coin. How many tkms before this level of wear is seen? I wonder.
Can digital odometer readings be easily tampered?
The engine has the famous tick tick sound indicative to camshaft belt and
tensioner wear...I did not test drive the unit but the Zafira is one cute neat
MPV....and initial cost is Php 75k less.
But then again this saving is nothing if I had to:
1) Replace a busted ECU - Php 65 at Thunder
2) Replace a busted power steering electic motor and gear assy Php 100k?
3) Shocks cost Php 8k each?
4) Cost of Brake Discs at Thunder approx Php 7k each = 30k total
What would be the better bet?

I find myself w/ this question after first having considered buying new innova or a carens but now think a 2nd used vehicle may save money ?

[niky]

Yes, digital readings can be tampered.

Busted ECUs aren't that common, but I'm not familiar with either vehicle (there was one guy who really did hate the Venture, he's at another site now...

Buying a secondhand will always cost you less money than buying a brand new vehicle, even considering the repairs. Say, you buy for 300k, then do repairs worth 100k, that's still less than the total for a new vehicle, and depreciation on the initial purchase cost is much less, overall.

But, you will spend lots of time doing those repairs if you choose the wrong vehicle, so choose wisely.

If I were you, I'd go a little higher and look at a more mainstream vehicle. It's not impossible to maintain a Venture or a Zafira, but you really have to know the right people and have a lot of patience...

[alwayz_yummy]

unless you know a part supplier and mechnic knows your venture or zafira, i will recomend the common jap/korean people movers like starex, l3, l4, hi-ace, urvan. trouble free ka pa..

i recomend the urvan more--TD27 is a chain-driven engine, not belt...

[tylerdude]

the zafira is one good looking mpv. however, the parts may not readily available all the time but if you know where to get it aside from casa then it shouldnt be a problem maintaining it. check the club site of opel to get more info about zafira.

www.clubopelph.com

[cbcnestormn]

the zafira is one good looking mpv. however, the parts may not readily available all the time but if you know where to get it aside from casa then it shouldnt be a problem maintaining it. check the club site of opel to get more info about zafira.

www.clubopelph.com

Thanks for all your opinions, indeed I will need a lot of patience, a good mechanic and above all some 'luck".....I started the search for a 3rd vehicle with a choice of either a family carrier or a nice personal car(that's why for a while I prowled the Civic vs Mazda 3 threads). I've given up the nice personal car in favor of kids first. That said they prefer the space of a big van so the Venture fits the need. I thought the zafira a nice neat choice if only it was not bedeviled with electronics system problems. I will stnad by for a few more comments and then have to decide to take the plunge...or end up with a slightly use Innova.....surely a reliable but maybe less interesting option. But it does have very comfortable seats, though the kids cant lie flat on them.

[userfriendly]

Is the Venture really prone to the ff problems I have seen posted? How do I
avoid them:
1) Overheating, a top overhaul costing Php 30k +
2) Electrical system troubles, an ECU costing Php 80k?
3) Front wheel bearing/ axle shaft costing Php 80K?
4) Fuel pump conk out cosing PHp 30k
5) Suspension troubles?

I have 75K kms on my 2002 Venture. Here are my comments:
1. Overheating - I experienced it around 3 times. Temp did was around 3/4 but still below red line. Cause was slow turning blower/fan. Did not need to overhual. Had it fixed at the casa for 2000 pesos, ripoff for electrical problem but at least it was a permanent fix.

I pay attention to my coolant. Replace every 2 years. Dont listen to claims that it will last 5 years. Its cheap enough to replace every 2 years and make sure you mix with distilled water.

In case you buy a venture and temp goes past 1/2, switch your thermostat to heater. It helps cool the engine.

2. No electronics problem.

3. Axle and wheel bearings ok no probs.

4. Fuel pump ok.

5. Suspension - had Cruven repair my ball joints, tie rod ends and rear shocks. Its cheap and its almost a year old and still ok.

Dont buy parts from casa. I get my parts from Thunder. Price of common parts:
Rear brake pads cost 3,500 pesos
AC Delco oil filter 350 pesos
AC Delco air filter 800
AC Delco fuel filter 1,200 good for 40,000 kms
AC Delco ATF filter and gasket 4,500 good for 80,000 kms

Oil change is done when your change oil indicator lights up. Typically anywhere from 3,500 to 12,000 kms or one year w/c ever comes first. And use 5w30 oil! Very important. My FC improved a lot after switching from 10w40 to 5w30. Engine also runs smoother.

Common prob for Venture is whistling noise from the AC. Sounds like "pooot". It comes and goes but its nothing to worry about. Never bothered to fix it and it goes away on its own.

[vinj]

I'd look at a more mainstream vehicle like the Revo, Space Gear, Serena, Crosswind, etc. I'd even consider an older Mitsu Space Wagon over the Venture if i was looking at parts and practicality.

My two cents.

[cbcnestormn]

I have 75K kms on my 2002 Venture. Here are my comments:
1. Overheating - I experienced it around 3 times. Temp did was around 3/4 but still below red line. Cause was slow turning blower/fan. Did not need to overhual. Had it fixed at the casa for 2000 pesos, ripoff for electrical problem but at least it was a permanent fix.

I pay attention to my coolant. Replace every 2 years. Dont listen to claims that it will last 5 years. Its cheap enough to replace every 2 years and make sure you mix with distilled water.

In case you buy a venture and temp goes past 1/2, switch your thermostat to heater. It helps cool the engine.

2. No electronics problem.

3. Axle and wheel bearings ok no probs.

4. Fuel pump ok.

5. Suspension - had Cruven repair my ball joints, tie rod ends and rear shocks. Its cheap and its almost a year old and still ok.

Dont buy parts from casa. I get my parts from Thunder. Price of common parts:
Rear brake pads cost 3,500 pesos
AC Delco oil filter 350 pesos
AC Delco air filter 800
AC Delco fuel filter 1,200 good for 40,000 kms
AC Delco ATF filter and gasket 4,500 good for 80,000 kms

Oil change is done when your change oil indicator lights up. Typically anywhere from 3,500 to 12,000 kms or one year w/c ever comes first. And use 5w30 oil! Very important. My FC improved a lot after switching from 10w40 to 5w30. Engine also runs smoother.

Common prob for Venture is whistling noise from the AC. Sounds like "pooot". It comes and goes but its nothing to worry about. Never bothered to fix it and it goes away on its own.

Hello Userfriendly: Thanks for your detailed comments, its a great help. The owner of a Venture with only 32tkms says worst case he got 4kms/liter, average of 5 kms/liter and best of 6 kms/liter city driving.

What mileage did you get after using the lighter engine oil?

What fix did the casa do for the slow turning radiator fan? Was it a loose connection only>?

I appreciate the reliability of Japanese cars but I am much attracted by the huge people carrying space of this car and low purchase price relative to age of the car.

[vinj]

I appreciate the reliability of Japanese cars but I am much attracted by the huge people carrying space of this car and low purchase price relative to age of the car.

There's a reason for the low 2nd hand purchase price... i don't know for what reason but i have two acquaintances who've owned one and the last time i saw their garages they already disposed their Ventures (and coincidentally both got a 2nd hand Starex in exchange). My main discomfort in owning a Venture is the experience MBT had with his before... sa Podium pa lang and the car conked out and he had no support from the CASA to have it towed to their shop... what the more if this happens while you're on an out of town trip?

But if you feel you can live with that, you know where to get parts and service, and you're confident on driving the van out on long trips without encountering problems then it's a good deal indeed since i see 2 year old units selling for as low as 350 to 400K. If not... why not look at a Starex as well? Space, comfort, more parts and service knowledge...

[coiter]

i actually have no knowledge of the 2 vehicles you've mentioned and they weren't on my short list when i thought of buying a family car. how about a 2nd hand kia carnival? it's big, looks nice inside and out and comes with a diesel engine. anyway, good luck on your choice!

[userfriendly]

Hello Userfriendly: Thanks for your detailed comments, its a great help. The owner of a Venture with only 32tkms says worst case he got 4kms/liter, average of 5 kms/liter and best of 6 kms/liter city driving.

What mileage did you get after using the lighter engine oil?

What fix did the casa do for the slow turning radiator fan? Was it a loose connection only>?

I appreciate the reliability of Japanese cars but I am much attracted by the huge people carrying space of this car and low purchase price relative to age of the car.

I now average 5 km/l city driving and 10 km/l highway. Combined is 14.4L/100kms = 7 km/l. With 10w40 oil I was averaging 18.8L/100kms = 5.32 km/L.

Casa just fixed a loose connection.

I just buy my filters from Thunder and have it serviced at Speedyfix. Will try Royal Purple 5w30 on my next oil change. Migs, T-cash ang bayad ha.

[cbcnestormn]

I now average 5 km/l city driving and 10 km/l highway. Combined is 14.4L/100kms = 7 km/l. With 10w40 oil I was averaging 18.8L/100kms = 5.32 km/L.

Casa just fixed a loose connection.

I just buy my filters from Thunder and have it serviced at Speedyfix. Will try Royal Purple 5w30 on my next oil change. Migs, T-cash ang bayad ha.

Userfriendly: Tks again for sharing your owner experience, its valuable. I am more hopeful if I finally buy one, i will be as lucky. I can promise you I am a careful user. Mileage of 10 kmsliter or even just 8 -9 for me is great considering the comfort you get. Vinj is right that the risk remains of unexpected roadside breakdown...eh bahala na I believe in gambling on probabilities that w/ good maintenance and a dose of luck siguro di ako itirik nito. If I get one, I will keep you posted. I hope this is a budget Previa...no offense intended on anyone ha...I would love a Previa but wont pay Php 1M even for a used one.

I called Roy of Chevy QA and he was cooperative enough to explain to me the critical parts of the car that need regular checking (i.e radiator blower functionality, wiring connections must be clean/tight etc.), etc. He said, overheating is the most common problem of this car. Electronics (ECU related problems) are not common.

Thunder auto supply then told me what parts sell well i.e. breakdown commonly - fan belt idler pulleys/tensioners, less common but happens are replacement of alternators.

Thanks for Coiter suggestion about the Kia Carnival, but interestingly they have a bit higher resale value But I am not fond of non-crdi diesels, and I think costs of fixing old high mileage diesels is not cheaper than an 2nd hand venture with low mileage that I find is easily available. But if I could afford, a Starex CRDi is nice, a Ford 2.0 TDCi is great

[cbcnestormn]

There's a reason for the low 2nd hand purchase price... i don't know for what reason but i have two acquaintances who've owned one and the last time i saw their garages they already disposed their Ventures (and coincidentally both got a 2nd hand Starex in exchange). My main discomfort in owning a Venture is the experience MBT had with his before... sa Podium pa lang and the car conked out and he had no support from the CASA to have it towed to their shop... what the more if this happens while you're on an out of town trip?

But if you feel you can live with that, you know where to get parts and service, and you're confident on driving the van out on long trips without encountering problems then it's a good deal indeed since i see 2 year old units selling for as low as 350 to 400K. If not... why not look at a Starex as well? Space, comfort, more parts and service knowledge...

Vinj, the Venture offered to me at php 350k is a 2002 model or 5 yrs old, where did you see a 2 yrs old unit at the same price? Then I should look around more? A 2005 unit with 16Tkms is advertised at php 490k, imagine this was Php 1,150k brand new!

[vinj]

Vinj, the Venture offered to me at php 350k is a 2002 model or 5 yrs old, where did you see a 2 yrs old unit at the same price? Then I should look around more? A 2005 unit with 16Tkms is advertised at php 490k, imagine this was Php 1,150k brand new!

I saw one on the Manila Bulletin a few weeks back (sometime October or early November)... the owner advertised it at around "400K neg" for a '05 model. We're also in the market for a family van and the Venture was tempting due to the price but after my not-so-happy experience with the GM Autoworld service on a relative's Suburban before and the feedback of some people we decided to look for a Starex, Innova, Ford Everest or Sedona instead.

Once in a while there are reasonably priced Chrysler Caravans/Town and Countrys in the classifieds (bet. 300K to 600K)... Also late 90's Previas. Another okay van for me, although it's already old, is the Mazda MPV actually.

[userfriendly]

Once in a while there are reasonably priced Chrysler Caravans/Town and Countrys in the classifieds (bet. 300K to 600K)... Also late 90's Previas. Another okay van for me, although it's already old, is the Mazda MPV actually.

Caravans are nice. I used to drive one when I was in North America. Weakness ng Caravans ang AT. prone to breakeage ang AT nito at hindi pwede ang regular Dexron III ATF.

Dont expect to get 8 or 9 km/L. most of my driving is highway, SLEX and Star Toll. Although SLEX is better described as a crawl way. My best FC was 12km/L pure highway.

BTW, check the radiator of the unit. I've read a lot of internet gripes about GM's Dexcool coolant turning into jello. You can google "dexron collant problems" or something to that effect if you want to read about it. I just use ordinary premixed Prestone and so far so good.

[cbcnestormn]

I saw one on the Manila Bulletin a few weeks back (sometime October or early November)... the owner advertised it at around "400K neg" for a '05 model. We're also in the market for a family van and the Venture was tempting due to the price but after my not-so-happy experience with the GM Autoworld service on a relative's Suburban before and the feedback of some people we decided to look for a Starex, Innova, Ford Everest or Sedona instead.

Once in a while there are reasonably priced Chrysler Caravans/Town and Countrys in the classifieds (bet. 300K to 600K)... Also late 90's Previas. Another okay van for me, although it's already old, is the Mazda MPV
actually.

Tks Vinj, I will look again. I actually had closely followed each weekend of the Manila bulletin and Buy n Sell but did not see such a low priced Venture. I will look again, but if you see it again, pls post me the contact tel no...tks. I am afraid of automatic tranny problems as those are expensive to fix too. I am less interested in Chrysler as parts are more difficult to find I assume. The Venture worst case I can get parts on the internet from the U.S. and in China during one my my visits there I think.

[cbcnestormn]

Caravans are nice. I used to drive one when I was in North America. Weakness ng Caravans ang AT. prone to breakeage ang AT nito at hindi pwede ang regular Dexron III ATF.

Dont expect to get 8 or 9 km/L. most of my driving is highway, SLEX and Star Toll. Although SLEX is better described as a crawl way. My best FC was 12km/L pure highway.

BTW, check the radiator of the unit. I've read a lot of internet gripes about GM's Dexcool coolant turning into jello. You can google "dexron collant problems" or something to that effect if you want to read about it. I just use ordinary premixed Prestone and so far so good.

Tks Userfriendly for the new tips about the coolant. one unit I am seriously considering has an Aeronox gas saver installed on it, the owner says he gained 1 km/liter saving on consumption so his previous 4 -5.5 km/liter use is now 5-6.5 km/liter...I wonder if true....can this gadget damage the engine? what stops me is a loud bearing noise that remains even after the crankpulley and belt tensioner has been changed...the owner said the casa mechanics said the noise was normal.

[userfriendly]

I dont trust those fuel saving gadget. I tried one called HOB and it was crap. Think about it, car manufacturers spend millions on engine design and research. I would think that they know more about engines and fuel consumption than some inventor.

I'd think twice or look for another unit if that one has bearing noise. My 2 cents.

[cbcnestormn]

I dont trust those fuel saving gadget. I tried one called HOB and it was crap. Think about it, car manufacturers spend millions on engine design and research. I would think that they know more about engines and fuel consumption than some inventor.

I'd think twice or look for another unit if that one has bearing noise. My 2 cents.

Tks Userfriendly, your comments have helped me suspend a quick decision on buying that nice clean red venture, not the least until I let the reality sink in. At Php 350, + Php 50k for repairs the cost becomes Php 400k...not sure if its worth it. So am planning to look at a Kia Sedona Gas V6 a/t w/ 28Tkms offered at Php 430k, any opinoins on its gas mileage and maintenance experience?