Audi A4 vs BMW E36 vs MB W124

[Horsepower]

Hi guys, planning to have my first German car.

I'm looking at :

1) Audi A4 1.8L mid-late 90s
2) BMW E36 (316/318-320i).
3) Mercedes-Benz W124 Turbo Diesel.

What are the potential problem(s) i might run into with owning these cars?

What should I look out for when finally purchasing one?

or could you suggest a better alternative than these three (same price range please)?

Thanks in advance. :-)

[ronw123w124]

I guess I'm in the position to give feedbacks about the 3 cars posted on this thread:

1. My sister used to own an A4 in the U.S., in her experience, this has got to be the worst car shes ever owned. The car was brought back to the dealer several times to rectify a lot of small but very irritating problems mostly electrical in nature. I must admit that I enjoyed driving this car whenever I'm in California. IMO, it is the best handling car I have driven so far and its not even a quattro.

2. I used to drive a 316i E36 body. It was good at first, but one day the ABS brake system had a malfunction and upon bringing it to Prestige Cars Libis, I was shocked to receive a P115,000 repair estimate. After that I sold the car immediately. Although I'm thinking of buying my other sister's 318i E46. She's thinking of selling it because she wants a bigger car and is currently looking at the X5.

3. My dad handed down his '92 300E 2.6 W124 to me about 3 years ago, I still have the car. It has been with us since new. It has served us very well. Maintenance costs IMO, is comparable to a Japanese sedan.


since you're looking for a diesel, try looking for a 94-95 E300 diesel, a friend of mine has one and I tell you, its one sweet car. Prices should hover around 400,000 to 500,000 largely depends on the condition.

another good choice for me would be a W202 body C220, used to have a C180 but had to sell to make way for the W124.

[mbeige]

I agree with Ron on getting the '94-'95 E300D turbodiesel with the OM606 engine.

If not that, make sure the diesel you get has good compression. A compression test will always prove beneficial as part of a prepurchase inspection. This is because the OM60x family of engines MB designed for the w124 had aluminum heads but iron blocks, and the aluminum heads are prone to warping when overheated. Have both the compression test done as a cooling system pressure test done to determine the health of the water jackets between cylinders as well as the engine in general.

Just be wary of the electrical gremlins that plague '93-'95 w124's, this also includes the w140 and w202 along the same years.

Again, get a PPI (prepurchase inspection) done as well as compression and cooling system pressure test. The vacuum pump also of the OM603 should be the updated version, the old one will tend to take out the timing chain and possibly the engine if not checked. The w124 transmissions also had an updated kit for the B2 piston I believe, this should have already been done too. Other than that the Benz is a solid platform that should provide you with years of great ownership.

[Horsepower]

Thanks, the C220 is fine it's just that i heard that on its 100K Kms, you'll need to change the wiring harness which would cost here around 100K pesos (about $2200) is this true?

I chatted with a middle-aged man in the car wash admiring his '98 c220 (because it looks so pristine) and that's what he's worried about and revealed to me he's planning to sell it due to that.

[ronw123w124]

I think 40-50k is more like it for the wiring harness, maybe the guy you talked to had his done at CATS no wonder for the ridiculous amount. I had mine replaced when I had the C180, cost me around 35k at that time.

[mbeige]

You could get a w124 anywhere from 1986 to 1993 and avoid the wiring harness problem altogether. Those are just as solid and reliable, if not better because of the lack of the wiring harness problem. Just please try not to convert to the E-look, enthusiasts will know

[Horsepower]

but you guys said those will have the problem of the OM603(?) warping head?

[mbeige]

Only if you overheat it for too long. If not, you should be fine. That's why I recommended a compression test done prior to purchase as well as the test for cooling system pressure to see if there's any leak, indicating a possible warped head.

These engines are pretty tough though. Some owners have rigged the aux fans to turn on whenever the AC is on, that way it remains cool and won't risk overheating. Alternatively you can get the lower rated aux fan switches to trigger them earlier than factory ratings (tropicalize them). That way instead of the fans turning on at, say, 100C, it will turn on around 80C maybe. That depends on the replacement you get.

[Horsepower]

I'm pretty good at practical electronics so I guess i can do these modifications myself (pag sinipag LOL).

Saw a 1995 E300 TD... ganda :D


Thanks a lot for the expert replies. :-)


PS. You guys don't really like BMWs, do ya? hehe

[ronw123w124]

You could get a w124 anywhere from 1986 to 1993 and avoid the wiring harness problem altogether. Those are just as solid and reliable, if not better because of the lack of the wiring harness problem. Just please try not to convert to the E-look, enthusiasts will know

Actually depende sa pagkaconvert, mine is a 92 so naka wide lower body claddings na ako tsaka yung door handles ko yung may chrome strip na, even my windshield and the 2 strips on the roof are black chromes na (dunno the proper term to call that finish). also my bumpers have the chrome strips on top as found on later models, so I just changed the hood including the grills, the rear bumper, the headlights and tailights including the signal lights at the front, the trunk and had the bumper impact strips (the black part of the bumper on older 124's) painted to match the bumpers. When my friends and my brother saw the car, they all thought that I sold my w124 and upgraded to a 94 model but the plate numbers gave me away.

[the josh]

MB syempre, classic eh at reliable pa

[mbeige]

I'm pretty good at practical electronics so I guess i can do these modifications myself (pag sinipag LOL).

Saw a 1995 E300 TD... ganda :D


Thanks a lot for the expert replies. :-)


PS. You guys don't really like BMWs, do ya? hehe

Looks like you can find yourself a nice w124 and join the MBCP to get more insight

The 1992 w124 already has semi updated look, but suffice to say a complete conversion done properly still is a conversion. Nothing beats an authentic design. Maybe it's just me though. There's something nice about keeping it all original. Our 1990 300TE has the chrome accents on the door handles, the blacked/painted chrome on the roof/windshield pillars, and the chrome accents on the bumpers and body cladding.

However, I find that the w124's Achilles heel in terms of design is the front - they should have all used the updated look from the start. Somehow for me the non updated look looks dated. I guess this is one of the reasons why the owners convert to the E look. But the w124 was the first model in MB's line up to have model facelifts. The w123 only had interior changes, and externally it looked similar through the years. The w124 got the semi updated look around 1990, and completed the E look around 1993-1995 together with the wiring harness problem I suppose.

BMW's? Well I've never owned one, but I'm surprised almost none of the BMW owners have responded yet. I knew about Audi's electrical problems, but we have a w124 so I wanted to give my advice on it.

My dream MB is probably a 1995 E500 black on black. But dangit, it'll always be a dream. Either the rich guys have already gotten multiple specimens, or the good ones are just too impossible to acquire. I think that's the ultimate in understatement.

[wonderloo]

i had an audi a4 1.8l 2000.
handling, comfort, pati yun leather seats nya...superb...!
if i only had money to maintain its HIGH maintenance expenses,
i would have kept it...

hindi ko lang talaga nakayanan yun periodic maintenance system tune-up nya
and yun replacement for the wear-and-tear parts nya.

[Horsepower]

*wonderloo: Thanks. I was warned about high maintenance costs.

*ron: thanks, so interchangeable pala ang ibang parts.

*mbeige: When you say electrical problems, are these problems enough for the car not to run?

[squala]

The W124 is probably the best midsize Benz ever made. It rides like a dream and is dependable unlike its E-Class successors. It's not as fun as a BMW though, but indeed a great classic.

The A4, as I mentioned in another thread, looks better than it drives. The design is eye-popping but the experience is not something memorable. It handles well even in FWD but ride is hard. Space at the back isn't excellent as well. Dashboard is impeccable in design and quality, but as it was said, suffers from many electrical troubles. Parts are also pretty much from the casa only.

The E36 BMW is great fun, even in the slow 316i. It handles very well, feels really stable with a well sorted suspension and steering that's definitely involving. But space is also not very good, and the long wheelbase and low ground clearance mean you have to tackle the humps sideways.

[mbeige]

*mbeige: When you say electrical problems, are these problems enough for the car not to run?

I guess being a w124 owner who has never experienced that, it would be best to read about wiring harness problems on www.mercedesshop.com (under the shop forum). I don't know the extent of the damage done but mostly it's just the wiring insulation peeling or disintegrating away due to the use of biodegradable materials and prolonged exposure to heat and humidity. I would hope it's just annoying little electrical faults but I cannot really advise on the extent of damage possible. Maybe Ron can attest to this, he's had his wiring harness replaced before.

*Squala, the BMW may be leaning more towards sporty handling while the Benz is a balance of sporty and comfort. It's a luxury car, so it focuses on comfort but if push comes to shove, it can still hold its own on the road. Yep the e34/w124's are becoming classics, the oldest ones are probably 20 years old or more now. I'm sure the w124 started around '86 so that makes it 21yo.

[basti08]

IMO, if I'd go MB W124, I'd get the CE model or the Coupe model. Rarer, exclusivity sometimes feels good. W124s are already old, have to dig ways to add charms to its appearance. Either you add bodykits or get a more exotic model/variant. I choose the latter, but that's just me. Or a 94 C-class is indeed more appealing.

Audi A4, same sentiments as Squala.

BMW, is my pick among the choice. It has its fair share of probs as the other Germans, high maintenance, not the best in space department, not the most feature-packed but i think it is the best compromise among the trio.
I just think the dash of the E36 is way too dated even compared with the W124 Benz or the A4.

Another suggestion if you indeed are eyeing on Germans and non-discriminating.
I suggest the 98 Volkswagen Passat GLX 4Motion. Price could be within or a bit higher than most of the choices but its NEWER for one and has Audi A4 underpinnings. Feature packed even with the Audi's Quattro 4 wheel Drive System, the 30valve V6 and luxury and convenience features not found on some base models on your choices.
You could opt for a lower model 1.8Turbo GLS variant if you want more savings.

[mbeige]

IMO, if I'd go MB W124, I'd get the CE model or the Coupe model. Rarer, exclusivity sometimes feels good. W124s are already old, have to dig ways to add charms to its appearance. Either you add bodykits or get a more exotic model/variant. I choose the latter, but that's just me. Or a 94 C-class is indeed more appealing.

The 230CE/300CE coupes command a higher price due to the exclusivity alone. You must know that parts might also be marked up for the same reason. Some coupes had the rear self leveling system, which if it goes bad, will be costly to repair. But only the parts unique to the coupe should be marked up, if they're similar to the sedans, get one for a sedan - they should be interchangeable. However, this part requires some research before purchasing the parts. In Libis, Delodur can get you the parts from Hong Kong I believe, but it takes a few weeks for special parts not commonly stocked. Other shops should also have them. Lots of surplus shops also abound, and mostly they stock German parts altogether so regardless of which car you choose, going to a surplus shop for your German car should not be much of a problem if they can refer you to other shops of similar car makes.

The wagons have the self leveling suspension too but are more useful due to the larger cargo space in the back. This means the rear has a better ride too, no sagging compared to cars not equipped with the self leveling suspension (SLS).

The fact that it's a (more) modern classic (than the w123), that makes it appealing by that alone. If you think the appearance is dated, wait until you have seen one that's fully restored and freshly painted with factory or OE paint. The metallic paints on these cars do not have glitter, as compared to the newer cars. So if you look at the paint, and it has glitters, it's probably been repainted. This is easier to spot if the paint is single stage (earlier w124's had this) because single stage paint does not have a clear coat.

I agree with Basti on the BMW interior though - it looks dated. A thread on the w124 section of Benzworld shows the experience of one person in owning or looking at both the E34 and w124. I don't recall where it is, a search should reveal it.

Basti please enlighten the thread starter why you think the BMW is the best of the three?

[Horsepower]

Thanks for the replies.

Actually, i can postpone the purchase naman and save up more for a later model like the E46..

pero i've been hearing talagang matibay ang MB W124. I plan to put thin rubbers on it (to remove some oldie stigma). Super shine it.

I like the BMW E36 since childhood though.


Q to Bimmer fans: when people say don't get the 316, is it really that bad? as in super bad? Is it possible to turbocharge this car? up to what extent?

Q to MB fans: what is the most expensive part that could go wrong in the MB W124 1995 diesel (yes, im not getting the petrol because this tank is really big and heavy = expensive gas expenses).

[basti08]

I had an experience with a BMW 316i, just a base model of the E36 3series. It onced stayed at us for a whole week from father's office before.

Power is tepid, but beyond that handling is indeed good rolls but feels stiff and not tipsy yet aplomps with poise on bumps. Engine sound is very good. Transmission is crisp. Hammers down the road like a bigger car. Drives like one solid piece very rigid.
Features may be found lacking but i picked it cause it has what you just really need in point a to point b driving. Compared with the W124 230E i drove with 4 speed manual, i think its an older 86 model, but beyond the years, i think those cars are both solid pieces of metals. I like that the faster I drive over bumps, the lesser i feel it in the case of the Benz. I think the E36 is also like that but I feel its more pronounced in the Benz. I dont also think it handles better than the smaller 3series. Engine sound is horrible IMO, reminds me of an electric generator.