2013 AT - Montero 4x4 vs Santa Fe 4x2 vs Chevrolet Trailblazer 4x4

[bjreyesmd]

Sometimes the older engines are the most reliable because it is tried and tested. For new engines, you need a couple of years to check its reliability

[vinj]

Sometimes the older engines are the most reliable because it is tried and tested. For new engines, you need a couple of years to check its reliability

I agree here. That's also the reason why i prefer purchasing vehicles that have undergone a midlife cycle update as chances are issues that first came out are usually addressed.

[beni23]

Haha! Diyan ako bilib sa iyo chief eh, on your total reliance is the Wikipedia again, just like in TopGear PH. Nae-edit mga contents ni Wiki bosing ng kahit sino :hysterical: ....Bakit ko alam, eh dami ko na kayang na-edit at Wiki, concerning dirtbikes pa hehe....

No need to google this, dito ka kasi maki-tsismis: http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/10/c...ickup-for-u-s/

....and you'll see it's a different VM Motori or an improved VM Motori powerplant, not the previous year 2007 400-Nm powerplant that Wiki told you so for the all-new global model Chevrolet Colorado that's headed for US (356 lb-ft or 480 Nm torque)....

Dito ka kasi ulit maki-tsismis sa mga official manufacturers website to witch-hunt, not anywhere else chief hehe ---- http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/00/01/dettaglio.jsp?id=56

Could it be the RA428 engine, or even so, the mo-betta A428 engine, all Euro 5 emission compliant engines? Don't know, perhaps you know so.... Ask your trusted Wikipedia to provide you the info


Anyway, while you're at Wikipedia, no need to Google this as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Astron_engine

Your vaunted dinosaur-age year 1986 2.5-litre 4D56 engine started from 75 hp.... As years and 3 decades went by, it was mated with the following:

1. Non-intercooled turbo; to
2. Non-intercooled turbo 1st generation; then to
3. Non-intercooled turbo 2nd generation; then to
4. Intercooled turbo non-CRDi (water-cooled); then
5. Intercooled turbo 1st generation Di-D common-rail; then
6. Intercooled turbo 2nd generation Di-D; and most recently
7. Intercooled turbo so-called 3rd generation Di-D with VGT....

AGAIN, from 75 hp to 178 hp (2.4 times more power, or 240%), PUHUNAN ay BOOSTING, not excuses

Chief, sabi mo pala di ba, with conviction pa hehe, kaya binababaan ang compression ratio ng diesel engine para mas compliant sa emission standards, mainly CO2 kamo na, sama na ang NOx, add na rin hydrocarbons.... Bakit pala binaba na ang compression ratio ni dinosaur-age 4D56 from 21.1 : 1 then to 17.1: 1 then down to 16.5 : 1 for the past 3 decades, tinurbo-charged pati ng limpak-limpak pa, bakit mauusok pa rin?

Nakakatawa pati yung mala ratio-and-proportion mo na pinangalanan mo pang Arsen Mhikk equation sa TopGear PH na bakit 178 hp si 4D56 at 200 hp si Santa Fe.... Magandang huwag nalang patulan :hysterical:

Cheers!

May galit ka ata sa mitsubishi, siguro di ka nila tinanggap nung nagaapply ka dun as janitor no? Kawawang nilalang. Tsk.

Just to get things right, ang sinasabi mong newer engines ng ford vs mitsubishi engine eh yung 2008 ranger at 2010 everest namin pagdating ng 2500rpm eh sobrang mausok na. I know, kasi kapag tumatakbo ako ng ganun nakikita ko sa rearview mirror at naiilawan ng mga nasa likod. Versus our Strada na sinasabi mong 1986 engine eh bakit kahit pinipiga ko walang lumalabas na usok? Again, sa amin itong mga sasakyan na ito, at hindi lang sa nabasa ko to thru the internet na katulad mo. Kawawa ka talaga, wala kang friends.

And to add, idle palang ng dalawang ford namin may white smoke na while on the strada walang visible smoke. Yan ba ang 1986 engine na sinasabi mo? Eh ang dmax mo? Hahahaha

[SiRbossR]

May galit ka ata sa mitsubishi, siguro di ka nila tinanggap nung nagaapply ka dun as janitor no? Kawawang nilalang. Tsk.

Just to get things right, ang sinasabi mong newer engines ng ford vs mitsubishi engine eh yung 2008 ranger at 2010 everest namin pagdating ng 2500rpm eh sobrang mausok na. I know, kasi kapag tumatakbo ako ng ganun nakikita ko sa rearview mirror at naiilawan ng mga nasa likod. Versus our Strada na sinasabi mong 1986 engine eh bakit kahit pinipiga ko walang lumalabas na usok? Again, sa amin itong mga sasakyan na ito, at hindi lang sa nabasa ko to thru the internet na katulad mo. Kawawa ka talaga, wala kang friends.

And to add, idle palang ng dalawang ford namin may white smoke na while on the strada walang visible smoke. Yan ba ang 1986 engine na sinasabi mo? Eh ang dmax mo? Hahahaha

I think you should get your cars checked, cause im not experiencing those smoking problems with my fords and nor does the people whom i know that owns one.

[beni23]

I think you should get your cars checked, cause im not experiencing those smoking problems with my fords and nor does the people whom i know that owns one.

With regular maintenance, 5k PMS and 10k PMS. Our everest is due for 30k PMS, I will have it checked.

[d_mac]

I think you should get your cars checked, cause im not experiencing those smoking problems with my fords and nor does the people whom i know that owns one.

With regular maintenance, 5k PMS and 10k PMS. Our everest is due for 30k PMS, I will have it checked.

Nagsisinungaling lang si idol bosing Beni23.... Ang totoo mausok ang 4D56 niya na may namumulang GT-V na emblem

Hayaan mo boss Beni23, sasagutin ko yung post mo, busy lang tayo at ngaun idol ;)

Cheers!

[beni23]

Nagsisinungaling lang si idol bosing Beni23.... Ang totoo mausok ang 4D56 niya na may namumulang GT-V na emblem

Hayaan mo boss Beni23, sasagutin ko yung post mo, busy lang tayo at ngaun idol ;)

Cheers!

PANGIT MO! :hysterical:

[babynos01]

Hindi ko magets to si dmac.
Ayaw niya sa wiki tapos ginamit niya wiki para i-enumerate ung developments ng 4d56 haha.
Hay nako sir, kahit gaano katagal na makina mo, may it be based from an 80s model, kung maayos naman maintenance mo no problem. We all know this.
Hindi naman porket 80s based yung engine, e yung components hindi binabago. May remodelling yan.

Yung ix35 ng kapitbahay namin * 18K ODO may black smoke din at WOT. Its normal for diesel engines.
2006 Alterra 3.0 niya ganon din, mas evident nga lang.

Can you also explain to us if there are other methods to increase power of diesel engines aside than implementing newer turbos?
Aside from aftermarket parts syempre (chips, intake, etc.) and displacement.

[bjreyesmd]

I think not all 4D56 ay mausok. I for one has a gls-v, and initially, medyo may usok siya. When I changed to euroIV diesel nawala sya and no problems since

[renzo_d10]

Lahat naman ata ng diesel mageemit at mageemit ng black smoke pag binigla yun hataw

Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk 2

[Walter]

Lahat naman ata ng diesel mageemit at mageemit ng black smoke pag binigla yun hataw

Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk 2

Except Isuzu. It's the BEEEEESSSSST ..... :hysterical:

[SiRbossR]

Maganda naman isuzu, but it's not the best out there. May pros and cons din although the cons outweighs the number of pros.

BTT:

The Santa Fe is a very nice car talaga but given the fact that the Trailblazer can compete with it neck to neck and may also outperform it at some points, that's something a buyer should think about. pero it all depends on what your heart really wants.

[bjreyesmd]

Agree that it really depends on what you want. If you want higher ground clearance and can comfortably seat seven, get the TBZ. If you want agility and a car-like ride, SF3 it is.

[numbah5]

Kung makumbinsi ko dad ko, we'll get the SF3 next year. Pero sana ilabas ang SF3 Long Wheelbase with the rumored 2.2 R eVGT desel na twin turbo or twin scroll turbo that churns out 225 ps and 510 Nm of torque. Kung hindi ilalabas yan, pwede na rin yung SWB. Basta KDM kukunin namin. Basta next week, baka makuha na namin TrailB.

[arsen]

[COLOR="#000000"]
Haha! Diyan ako bilib sa iyo chief eh, on your total reliance is the Wikipedia again, just like in TopGear PH. Nae-edit mga contents ni Wiki bosing ng kahit sino :hysterical: ....Bakit ko alam, eh dami ko na kayang na-edit at Wiki, concerning dirtbikes pa hehe....

No need to google this, dito ka kasi maki-tsismis: Chevy confirms global Colorado pickup for U.S.

Kapag magsesearch ka sa web, gamitan mo muna ng open and close quotation mark para me lumabas na pinaka unique... like this:
"The 2.8 L VM Motori turbodiesel is offered as options outside of U.S. as it does not satisfy the U.S. emission control standards"
Try searching again...

Ganitong statement ba ang naging assurance mo na babalik sa US ang minsan ng binasura?
"Unfortunately, GM isn't saying where the truck will be built or what kind of drivetrain(s) it will offer when it arrives. We have our fingers crossed for the 2.8-liter turbo diesel Duramax four-cylinder engine with 356 pound-feet of torque"

Malamang sa Tier II Bin 8 (effectivity 2007??) bumagsak si VM 2.8... okay meron na improve... sabi mo eh... Pero nag-improve na rin kasi ang EPA naging mas mahigpit na.

Anyway para meron kang konting pag-asa, US EPA gives fleet emission credit to the manufacturer for every zero emission (electric) cars being produced. Such credit are transferable to other models so it can be used by GM para makapagbenta ng iilang units just to make you happy.... hehehe

[COLOR="#000000"]
....and you'll see it's a different VM Motori or an improved VM Motori powerplant, not the previous year 2007 400-Nm powerplant that Wiki told you so for the all-new global model Chevrolet Colorado that's headed for US (356 lb-ft or 480 Nm torque)....

Dito ka kasi ulit maki-tsismis sa mga official manufacturers website to witch-hunt, not anywhere else chief hehe ---- VM Motori S.p.A.

Could it be the RA428 engine, or even so, the mo-betta A428 engine, all Euro 5 emission compliant engines? Don't know, perhaps you know so.... Ask your trusted Wikipedia to provide you the info

Of course it can comply with Euro 5. Magagawan ng paraan yan ng mga Tech Eng. Example, using a slightly lower torque capacity automatic transmission that has a veto power not to accept everything that engine says...
Pero if that engine is married to a manual tranny, hmmmm ewan... hahah

By the way, sa US, ibang usapan doon... mas ayaw nila sa pollutant na hindi visible sa mata at hindi kayang salain kahit gaano pa kakapal ang nasal hair.

Anyway, while you're at Wikipedia, no need to Google this as well:
Mitsubishi Astron engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your vaunted dinosaur-age year 1986 2.5-litre 4D56 engine started from 75 hp.... As years and 3 decades went by, it was mated with the following:

1. Non-intercooled turbo; to
2. Non-intercooled turbo 1st generation; then to
3. Non-intercooled turbo 2nd generation; then to
4. Intercooled turbo non-CRDi (water-cooled); then
5. Intercooled turbo 1st generation Di-D common-rail; then
6. Intercooled turbo 2nd generation Di-D; and most recently
7. Intercooled turbo so-called 3rd generation Di-D with VGT....

AGAIN, from 75 hp to 178 hp (2.4 times more power, or 240%), PUHUNAN ay BOOSTING, not excuses

Chief, sabi mo pala di ba, with conviction pa hehe, kaya binababaan ang compression ratio ng diesel engine para mas compliant sa emission standards, mainly CO2 kamo na, sama na ang NOx, add na rin hydrocarbons.... Bakit pala binaba na ang compression ratio ni dinosaur-age 4D56 from 21.1 : 1 then to 17.1: 1 then down to 16.5 : 1 for the past 3 decades, tinurbo-charged pati ng limpak-limpak pa, bakit mauusok pa rin?

Nakakatawa pati yung mala ratio-and-proportion mo na pinangalanan mo pang Arsen Mhikk equation sa TopGear PH na bakit 178 hp si 4D56 at 200 hp si Santa Fe.... Magandang huwag nalang patulan :hysterical:

Cheers!

Ayan na naman ang boosting mo... gusto mo dagdagan ko pa ang mga rebuttals ko dun sa TGP? Hindi pa ako tapos dun especially sa mga back pressures mo.

Pati yung power valves at sonic wave na binanggit mo mas maganda na maliwanagan mo kung paano gumagana yun. Contributor ka pa naman sa wiki sabi mo.

Dito galing ang estimation/simple equation
Makikita mo sa SAMPLE instantaneous torque curve (measured between the flywheel and crankshaft) na malaki ang torque na kinakain ng piston doing compression stroke. Umaabot ng 200% (2X) ng measured torque sa flywheel.

Mabawasan mo lang yang torque used to compress the air, malaking gain yan for the maximum torque and maximum power. The practical approach in lowering the power consumption for the compression stroke is to reduce the diameter of the piston.

Kaya nga doon sa TGP, knowing the vital statistics
4D56 : Bore 91.1, stroke 95, 178PS * 4000rpm
R 2.2 : Bore 85.4, stroke 96, 200PS
[and]
using the same engine configuration (fuel pressure, injection volume and timing)
try to estimate the max power of Hyundai R2.2 if the piston diameter is increased to 91.1
try to estimate the max power of Mitsu 4D56 if the piston diameter is reduced to 85.4

Para hindi na mahirapan pa, you can easily estimate using this simple mhikk equation... heheh

new max power = current max power x (Area1/Area2), Area = pi/4 (diameter)^2
for 4D56, estimated new max power = 178 x (91.1^2)/(85.4^2) = ??
for R2.2, estimated new max power = 200 x (85.4^2)/(91.1^2) = ??

[ano727]

*arsen, medyo nosebleed. hehehe

Sa aming mga di masyadong nakakasunod, ano po ibig sabihin nung data and charts na mentioned mo? Thanks.

[d_mac]

..........

[d_mac]

Kaya nga doon sa TGP, knowing the vital statistics
4D56 : Bore 91.1, stroke 95, 178PS * 4000rpm
R 2.2 : Bore 85.4, stroke 96, 200PS
[and]
using the same engine configuration (fuel pressure, injection volume and timing)
try to estimate the max power of Hyundai R2.2 if the piston diameter is increased to 91.1
try to estimate the max power of Mitsu 4D56 if the piston diameter is reduced to 85.4

Para hindi na mahirapan pa, you can easily estimate using this simple mhikk equation... heheh

new max power = current max power x (Area1/Area2), Area = pi/4 (diameter)^2
for 4D56, estimated new max power = 178 x (91.1^2)/(85.4^2) = ??
for R2.2, estimated new max power = 200 x (85.4^2)/(91.1^2) = ??

MALI yang sinasabi mo idol Mhikk Arsen....

Puede mo lang gamitin yang mala- ratio-and-proportion mong straight-equation na PINANGALAN mo pang sa iyo bwahehe kung ang dalawang makinang kinukumpara ay parehas lahat mapa-fuel pressure, injection volume, timing, COMPRESSION RATIO, TURBOCHARGING/ COMPRESSED AIR VOLUME, at STROKE LENGTH, kahit magkaiba ang bore sizes nila!

Di naman parehas stroke length ng Santa Fe 2.2 R-eVGT versus yang mausok na 1996 2.5 4D56 mo na tinurbo-na-ng-turbo ng limpak-limpak sa loob ng 3 decada't, NGUNIT di pa rin matatalo-talo sa lakas ang Santa Fe at mausok pati

Pinipilit mong i-parehas ang 86 mm stroke length sa 85 mm, hindi nga eh

Kung puros lang bore diameter pagbabasihan mo regardless of everything, eh di kumpara mo ang 200 hp na 3.2 4M41 versus sa 200 hp na 2.2 Santa Fe anong back-calculated value mo.... Siempre hindi na akma sa inakala mong na-tsambaham mo kay 4D56 GT-V kumpara kay 2.2 R-eVGT hehe....

Ganitong statement ba ang naging assurance mo na babalik sa US ang minsan ng binasura?
"Unfortunately, GM isn't saying where the truck will be built or what kind of drivetrain(s) it will offer when it arrives. We have our fingers crossed for the 2.8-liter turbo diesel Duramax four-cylinder engine with 356 pound-feet of torque"

Hehehehe, mali na naman haha! Hindi lahat provided diyan haha!

Yung pinagmamalaki mo na Wikipedia link ay taong 2007 pa ang makina noong VM Motori. Bagong developed lang ang Trailblazer diesel version at sa Brazil dineveloped ito, hindi sa Wikipedia dineveloped ito ah hehe.... Maging mga diesel VM Motori engines ngayon ay Euro 5 compliant na lahat at ang all-new Trailblazer ay kakalabas lang ng taong 2012, 5 taon makalipas mangyari yang Wikipedia sensational tsismis natin

Dito ka kasi maki-tsismis, mga diesel engines ng VM Motori na papuntang US at merong din mga VM Motori na dine-developed sa US mismo ---- subsidiary po kasi idol ni General Motors ang VM Motori. Maging ang Chrysler sa US ay VM Motori diesel ang gamit.... Again, HINDI mo makikita yan sa trusted mong Wikipedia hehe....

From 1.7-litre to 3.0-litre V6 VM Motori diesels papunta ng US hehe.... HINDI naman kasi pipitsugin ang VM Motori chief para ma-offer sa US ito, KAHIT pa walang naka-ukit na namumulang GT-V sa kaha nito hehe

Chevrolet Primed for Rising Demand for Diesel Cars

As of March 2012, GM to use VM Motori diesel for the US Chevy Cruze
GM's new 1.7-liter diesel hints at U.S. Chevy Cruze diesel

2013 Diesel Cars in the USA: Here’s the Lineup

Chrysler on the 3.0-litre VM Motori diesel
Chrysler 'EcoDiesel' Engines Set to Debut in US | Hybrid Cars

Dito ka rin kasi maki-tsismis sa official site kahit hindi pa ipanamamalita diyan ang mga latest events ng VM Motori tulad ng continuous development nila for the US market, at para kita mo Euro 5-complaint na makina at vehicle na sinu-supplyan ng VM Motor diesel, hindi kay pareng Wikipedia mo hehe
VM Motori S.p.A.

Cheers idol!

[arsen]

*arsen, medyo nosebleed. hehehe

Sa aming mga di masyadong nakakasunod, ano po ibig sabihin nung data and charts na mentioned mo? Thanks.

Thanks for the interest... unlike dyan sa isang vocal fan ko.... hahaha...
Change ko lang ang reference percentage (Y-axis) para hindi nakakalito.

Ang graph ay example ng mga engine torque measurement result using high resolution measuring device like these
Special_Torque_Sensor.pdf


Di ba usual firing order of engine is 1-3-4-2... so the blue numbers represents the firing order.

Yung declared sa spec sheet ng vehicle, yan na yung mean torque (see blue line * 100%).

Dyan sa graph,
yung mountains (above the blue line) are the examples of torque value produced by each pistons.
yung valleys (below the blue line) are the examples of torque consumptions or the torque needed by the piston to compress the air.

Dyan sa sample graph the valley is -200% (2x) with reference to the mean torque. Ganyan umaabot ang torque na ginagamit sa pagcompress ng air. Pero nababawasan yan sa pamamagitan ng paggamit ng smaller diameter piston.

Mabilis lang ang event na yan kaya kailangan ng high resolution measuring device. For example, sa 2000rpm, all that 4 mountains and 4 valleys are completed in 0.06 seconds. Kaya merong vibration sa makina dahil dyan sa intermittent torque.

[lance34]

Sir maka reply baka inde pa po nababasa ng mga hyundai users
Hyundai and Kia Face Lawsuits, Losses Over Exaggerated Fuel-Economy Claims - Edmunds.com
Hyundai, Kia face $775 million lawsuit over false fuel economy claims | Reuters
Hyundai, Kia sued again over inflated mileage claims - Los Angeles Times