Subcompact for a small family?

[Sid.Vicious]

Hi Guys,

I'm planning to buy our first family car this month. Wifey and I have got two kids. And so here are our restrictions:
1. Safety/Security -- a car which offers great safety/security features, and is also not a "car-nap-magnet" or easily to be carjacked/car-napped...
2. Budget -- Total Amount should be less than or equal to 775K only. That's the stretch that we can get.
3. Great Fuel Efficiency -- Need i say more?
4. Low/Cheap Maintenance (cheap parts, etc) -- since this is my first car, I don't want to spend my money on this car most of the times. I'd rather spend it to some good investments or put to our savings. As much as possible, we also want to avoid the hassles with the dealers or any annoying problems, etc etc.
5. A/T -- for two reasons: (1) Convenience/Comfort, since I'll be driving mostly within the Metro (EDSA's rush hours) and (2) so my wife can learn to drive easily as well.
6. Big/Enough Trunk space -- This is to accomodate a stroller and some bags and/or groceries during the weekend.
7. Durability -- As a memento and as much as possible, it would be great if my 1st car can still
perform well after 8 - 10 years with minimum maintenance costs, etc etc... I guess that's why I don't consider the resale value since I think I am a keeper or if there's a need to resell it, I think I will sell it to my relatives with the cheapest price they can get. Maybe after 7 or 8 yrs, I'll be getting a SUV by that time.

So here are the choices and which I already did a test-drive too:

A. Honda City 1.3S A/T - Priced at 771K with no discounts and less freebies. The looks are amazing from outside to the interior. The ride is nice though the driver seat seems stiff for me, or I think this is because I'm just a newbie driver. But the rearseat is huge and more comfortable than the driver and passenger seats. I tested it in traffic and I'm not quite impressed with its acceleration in a stop and go traffic.

B. Toyota Vios 1.5G A/T - Priced at 770K (due to discounts) and lotsa freebies. The look of this car is really common. Though I see it cute and clean for the unit that I tested maybe due to the bronze mica body paint, it kinda looks cool with some chrome items or maybe it's not common for the usual PUVs I see in the road. The ride is nice as well and I'm more comfortable with the seats. It also has a roomy interior but not that huge compared with the City. I'm comfortable driving the unit in a stop and go traffic and the steering wheel is light.

C. Ford Fiesta Sedan 1.6 A/T - Priced at 746K (after discounts) and some freebies. This is the cutest or good-looking sedan which I see so far. The interior looks different and advanced. I'm comfortable with the driver seat and it's a great ride. The steering is easier to maneuver compared with the two above. It also has a decent acceleration in a moderate traffic however the car tends to jerk from a series of stop and go -- or I think I need to practice my skill more on how to drive this car. I already wanted to buy this car since it's the cheapest and I think Ford is good nowadays and per reading lots of reviews as well however we are disappointed with its rear legroom or the backseats. I think it's not suitable for a small family.

Here are the other cars which I want to do a test-drive and my pre-comments or questions:

- Hyundai Accent 1.4 A/T -- cheapest large subcompact car that I see nowadays. I found the looks more handsome than the Honda City from front to end. The interior is huge as well. However, I am not confident with this due to some issues which I have been reading lately. <sigh>

- Mazda 2 1.5 Sedan A/T -- I like the look of this car. It's modern and not that too many on the road. I've read positive reviews on this. I haven't been able to look on this car closely as well as to its interior so I think my only dilemma is the backseats that it may not accomodate my two kids plus the yaya or 3 adults (in a night-out or outing).

- Honda Jazz 1.3 A/T -- This is the top 2 for me when it comes to exterior looks or ties with the Honda City. The interior is impressive and also its ULT seat configuration. The problem with this is it is way out of budget and Honda does not offer discounts. Also, Honda has a problem with the production of units these days due to the Thailand flooding. I think this is the best time of the year to buy a car rather than next year. It's not that we can not wait, we are just concerned that the offer of numerous discounts might be gone by early next year as well as our "hard-earned" money due to some irresistible goodies (like gadgets, appliances, etc).

Hope you can help me with the choices guys.

Thanks a lot!

DISCLAIMER: This is my first time to do a car review in a forum so please bare with me. I might be wrong with my opinions above so that's why I need your help. Those are all based from my personal taste and experience with the cars which I've test-driven or seen or checked out.

[_Qwerty_]

do consider other payments.. like LTO, comprehensive insurance, etc.. baka kulangin na yung 775T mo..

[niky]

For family use, nothing quite beats the City.

The Vios has slightly better rear seat comfort than the Fiesta and Mazda2, but the trunk is compromised, not much else will fit in there besides the stroller. Every other car in the class (City, Fiesta, Mazda2, Accent) has a much bigger trunk... except the old Rio... but the old Rio has both a small trunk and a small back seat. The one good thing about the Vios is that those engines are still the epitome of fuel economy.

It's not just you. I don't like the Fiesta's automatic, either. A more practical choice is the Fiesta 1.4 MT Trend Sedan. This is much cheaper, at 685k. It drives better than the Accent and Vios sedans in the same price range, is more refined and has a more composed ride. And the clutch and gearshift are very light, so it's not a pain to drive... though the clutch take-up is a bit hard to figure out at first.

The Mazda2 has similar space to the Fiesta. If you don't like the Fiesta's space, then the Mazda2 sedan may not be for you. The Mazda2 is more fun to drive than the Fiesta, but the shifter and clutch are not quite as good. Economy, in my experience, is similar to the Toyota, thanks to the light body and engines that prioritize economy over power.

The Accent has terrific space. I think, in fact, it's bigger than the City. Only issue is the soft suspension, if you're going to be carrying a lot of people and things. But this is also a problem with the Vios. And the Accent is damn cheap. I don't know if they still have discounts, but you could get an Accent base 1.4 MT for well under 600k before...

If you're willing to stretch your money, the City is still probably one of the best cars you can buy. The five speed automatic is better than the four speeds in the Vios and Accent and the clunky six-speed in the Fiesta (only the Mazda2's 4-AT is as responsive). It rides well. The trunk is ginormous. And the engine is top-notch. Economy not quite as good as the old Honda City, but it's decent enough.

[GTi]

I agree with the previous post. The best, most reliable choice is most probably the City. The Accent 1.4 still has the engine knock issue which has not yet been fully solved as of late (some still experience it, some do not), but it surely is the most value for money buy among these, and also the best looking if I may add.

Also, maybe you may want to consider getting a 2nd hand 2010 or 2011 City or Jazz 1.5i-VTEC. Surely there are those that fit your budget, they're practically almost new and its gotten past the initial depreciation, so you save a lot.

[_Qwerty_]

i think toyota is coming out with the new avanza next year.. i just dont know how much discount they are offering for the current Avanza G a/t right now.. if you can haggle and have it within your budget.. it should be something to consider.. kasyang kasya yung stroller mo and higher ground clearance.. kasya din kahit may extra adult..

[dr. d]

the vios 1.3 AT costs 730K on paper. i am confident you can haggle a slight discount..
but if you don't care what the others say, a sentra 1.3 AT costs 660K and offers more interior space and baggage space than the vios. and a lancer 1.6 gls costs 765K (going to 715K if there's still a promo). in my opinion, the lancer offers the most comfortable interior seating, but has slightly less usable baggage space.
all of these have corresponding manual transmission variants, cheaper by several tens of thousands less ...
as regards to maintenance, well... every car brand does have its trumpeters and naysayers..
hey! what about an auv? adventure's probably the cheapest.. and it'll probably outlast any of the sedans by virtue of its robust construction.

[Sid.Vicious]

Thanks for your responses. For the budget, actually 775K is alloted for the car alone since I alloted max of 25K for the insurance, etc etc or I think I can do a salary loan for it.

Re: Honda City, since this is our first choice, we have contacted several dealers but unfortunately, they are all out of stock. The SAs are very responsive and corteous and felt sorry because of what happened in Thailand. The possible time that they are giving me is around March or April and the City will be facelifted or updated and the prices will also increase. Though I don't have the exact prices yet, but still I found their current line-up as expensive enough. So now Im considering the other options.

I am a newbie in car so as much as possible I wanna have a brand new one which will be primarily maintained by the CASA. Would a one or two years old car (CASA maintained) valuable? I've seen some used cars in sulit, do you know other websites which offers great deal as well?

Or if I' tempted with the timing and the offer of Vios, I think I might go for it. We will just compromise the trunk's schedule then (groceries without the kids). haha -- as a friend told me that the 770K is a bang for the buck since it's one of the TOTL variants.

We do not consider AUVs or SUVs for now since it we are thinking that the fuel economy is not that good since this car will be our daily use (for our work) through the traffic of Metro Manila. We also rented some subcompacts before during weekend trips with my wife, kids and a yaya and we've tried the Vios (1.3E only) and Nissan (1.3 GX) and we are comfortable with the two. The Nissan is bigger but the look doesn't appeal to me (seems old) and if I remember correctly I spent a lot more on a fuel -- maybe because of its aircon since its cold or its heavier body. Yeah, I notice too that the car is heavier that Vios. But the comfort is still good.

I've seen the price of the Accent and it is really a bang for the buck considering the paper specs, the A/T is 688K only. I think I can deal with the soft suspension but still the on-going issues what strikes me -- engine knocks, low power, gas guzzler, etc. <sigh, again>

I've seen the upcoming Avanza, Vios, and even the Kia Rio this 2012. They all look good, but for budget-conscious "brand new" buyer like me, I think I will grab the opportunity for the current promos right now and my only fear on the new/upcoming models is that they might be the "guinea pigs" vehicles because they are about to prove or re-prove their durability/reliability. Though I might be still wrong with this opinion -- I think I just based this on some recalls, on-going issues, etc I've heard from friends and forums.

Thanks!

[erj22]

I have a neighbor who has a friend that use Accent AT. I was able to talk to him last week and asked how's the performance. He said he acquired the vehicle last October, 3rd week. Has no issues whatsoever, especially the knock issue. I also own an Accent which I got last 1st week of September, MT. No issues so far.

[Sid.Vicious]

That's good. Then I think I will not cancel my test-drive this weekend. I will also ask the SA personally (as if this works ) about the latest issues, etc. Is it true that you will have to wait for months before the car be delivered to you? I've heard that the supply of this Accent is not that good - how true is that? And what's your avg FC so far esp in a heavy traffic? Thanks much!

And for Mazda 2 Sedan, I still wanna see and test it for myself as I can't resist the positive reviews about it. I even see some reviews that 3 adults can sit there, but not sure about their comfort.

[_Qwerty_]

you can try ayosdito.ph

re: Avanza - i was referring to the current model (not the upcoming 2012 model).. they are disposing their stocks and with the year end you might get a good discount.. it will become an old model by next year.. but it's still brand new.. been out for 5 years already.. parts are cheap, maintenance is cheap.. fuel consumption depends on your route.. some can get 9 to 10 in city driving.. i can only get 7 to 8 tho..

Thanks for your responses. For the budget, actually 775K is alloted for the car alone since I alloted max of 25K for the insurance, etc etc or I think I can do a salary loan for it.

Re: Honda City, since this is our first choice, we have contacted several dealers but unfortunately, they are all out of stock. The SAs are very responsive and corteous and felt sorry because of what happened in Thailand. The possible time that they are giving me is around March or April and the City will be facelifted or updated and the prices will also increase. Though I don't have the exact prices yet, but still I found their current line-up as expensive enough. So now Im considering the other options.

I am a newbie in car so as much as possible I wanna have a brand new one which will be primarily maintained by the CASA. Would a one or two years old car (CASA maintained) valuable? I've seen some used cars in sulit, do you know other websites which offers great deal as well?

Or if I' tempted with the timing and the offer of Vios, I think I might go for it. We will just compromise the trunk's schedule then (groceries without the kids). haha -- as a friend told me that the 770K is a bang for the buck since it's one of the TOTL variants.

We do not consider AUVs or SUVs for now since it we are thinking that the fuel economy is not that good since this car will be our daily use (for our work) through the traffic of Metro Manila. We also rented some subcompacts before during weekend trips with my wife, kids and a yaya and we've tried the Vios (1.3E only) and Nissan (1.3 GX) and we are comfortable with the two. The Nissan is bigger but the look doesn't appeal to me (seems old) and if I remember correctly I spent a lot more on a fuel -- maybe because of its aircon since its cold or its heavier body. Yeah, I notice too that the car is heavier that Vios. But the comfort is still good.

I've seen the price of the Accent and it is really a bang for the buck considering the paper specs, the A/T is 688K only. I think I can deal with the soft suspension but still the on-going issues what strikes me -- engine knocks, low power, gas guzzler, etc. <sigh, again>

I've seen the upcoming Avanza, Vios, and even the Kia Rio this 2012. They all look good, but for budget-conscious "brand new" buyer like me, I think I will grab the opportunity for the current promos right now and my only fear on the new/upcoming models is that they might be the "guinea pigs" vehicles because they are about to prove or re-prove their durability/reliability. Though I might be still wrong with this opinion -- I think I just based this on some recalls, on-going issues, etc I've heard from friends and forums.

Thanks!

[niky]

I don't really feel the Accent knocking issue is that big of an issue. Many makers have issues with fuel quality in the Philippines, and from my participation in the thread before, it seems like it goes away when the users put in high octane fuel.

This indicates that the knocking was induced by poor quality fuel (some stations don't mix fuels and additives properly, so what is claimed as a 93 RON fuel can sometimes be 94, 93, 92 or even under 90) and can be cured simply by buying better fuel. And with the update, the sensitivity to knocking has been removed.

As long as you fill up at a trusted gas station and nowhere else, (or if you fill up elsewhere, simply go for higher octane XCS or Premium... or fill up at a big station with good facilities) then there should be no issues at all.

-

The Avanza is not really that bad on gas, from having tested it, economy is comparable to compact cars (for the 1.5). The 1.3 should be even more economical, but the interior is kind of ugly on the 1.3.

[Sid.Vicious]

Ok, now this is out of topic but I think I can stretch my budget up to 800K (for car only). So I'm adding two compact cars here, entry level of Ford Focus and Toyota Altis. I think I'm gonna schedule a test-drive for these as well. I got good discounts with these two but if you have a quick "no-no" for either of the two, let me know.

Thanks guys, esp to Niky - I appreciate your feedback, very informative and unbiased. Thanks bro!

[Sid.Vicious]

*Qwerty: Thank you too Bro for the suggestion but sorry and no offense esp to the Avanza owners here but because this Toyota Avanza (like Innova, Adventure) does not appeal to us (me and my wife). We're not saying that these are ugly vehicles but they just look boring from our perspective or it looks like they are adding numbers on our ages (again, no offense, this is just our personal preference and perspective, so sorry). I guess we're looking for a vehicle which has "looks + reliability + durability + safety + practicality".

[niky]

I'm not sure if the 800k budget brings you up to Grand Livina level, but it's worth a look. Lots of space, car-like drive, efficient 1.8 liter engine.

I'm not sure, but I think the base Cruze is right outside your range. Refinement comparable to the Focus, with a plusher ride and almost as much space as the Elantra. Don't like the manual transmission. Gears are too long and the throw is rubbery. But then, I don't like the automatic, either, as it's too laggy and inconsistent. If not for the transmission and the engine sounding strained under load, the Cruze would be a perfect car. As it is, it's just pretty good.

Focus, wonderful car... great refinement, great noise isolation, solid build quality. But it's heavy and the interior of the base model (I suppose you're looking at the 1.8 MT sedan?) is a bit tacky. Check it out and see for yourself if you like it.

The Altis 1.6 is still one of the benchmarks for fuel economy in the compact class. Great engine. Good transmissions. Interior space not as good as the best, but definitely worth comparing to the Focus (probably better). Only nits are the front foot wells, which are weird in shape. Overall, it's always a sure buy.

If you're considering this level of car, the base-level Elantra is just under 800k. (798k, I think, for the manual transmission). Sound insulation and suspension are not as good as the Focus, but it's got a terrific engine, a terrific transmission and a whole shebang of space, both in the passenger compartment and the trunk. I like this car, personally feels like a better Civic.

[renzo_d10]

The Elantra is terrific, just like what Niky said. But I think the Altis is the most practical choice. Lotsa space, great engine, and hassle-free maintenance. A bit cheap on fuel too - well, not really since it only has 4-gears on its automatics.

I like the Focus, aggressive looks and lots of toys inside. But then, it might be a bit of a guzzler since it's a 1.8, has a heavy body and ... that's it, I guess.

If any of the three wouldn't suit your preferences for whatever manner then I'd have to go for the City. Or the Jazz.

Not considering the Ford Fiesta Sedan? I know the looks are a bit of ehrr..., but I guess it's worth the look.

[GTi]

If so, then there you go with the Elantra 1.6GL 6M/T. There you've got the looks, lots of space, exceptional balance between fuel efficiency and performance, what more can you ask for? Well perhaps except for the fact that its a manual car. But then, the top of the line Accent 1.6GLS Blue is selling at 808k SRP. You also get lots of space, top of the line amenities, great engine performance and none of that engine knock nonsense. There you have it, base compact or top of the line subcompact?