Civic, Altis or Mazda 3

[xninjax]

OT:
*Niky

What's your opinion on the 2012 Mazda 3 with the new SKYACTIV engine?

[mda]

^ The question is whether we will even get that feature in our 2012 Mazda 3s at reasonable prices, if at all.

[boychikot]

I am not so sure about that but it shouldn't be far off from the gas mileages of 1.8L sedans in this segment though I'm pretty positive that it should be somewhat better than the Civic's due to the 6 speed tranny and dual CVVT (Civic's SOHC engine only allows valve timing and lift on the intake, tama po ba mga gurus? ) You can check out the Elantra threads for more info.

Thanks GTi

I'm just quite particular on fuel mileage. Dont want to experience that same horror on my old car (measly 6 to 7 km/l on light to moderate traffic). I think H ave a heavy foot. lol

[mda]

^ Steer clear from the mazda 3 then.

Our Civic does 7-8KM/L on heavy traffic.

i.e. My speed averaged for my 9-10KM trips everyday would be in the ballpark of 10-20kph.

[airolynx]

if you want economy sir, i'd suggest get the City. My 1.3 City is getting 15.5km/liter on a 100km daily roundtrip. That is if you're into 1.3 cars. ehehehe

[niky]

The Elantra... well... I haven't done economy testing with the 1.6 AT, though I do recall the 1.6 MT is somewhat better than the 1.6 AT Fiesta and and Accent in traffic, and 16-18 km/l is possible with a light foot on the highway. What I want to test (and haven't been able to) is if it's possible to hit 20+ km/l on eco-runs.

If heavy traffic is a concern, forget anything automatic with a 1.6. Go straight for a manual 1.3 or 1.4.

Today's new engine designs and heavy compacts really can't approach the efficiency of lighter, older cars with older-tech engines. Pollution controls require them to inject unburned gasoline straight into the catalytic converters to light them off... and/or to keep the throttle open when you let go of the gas pedal to prevent temporary rich or lean conditions which will cause more HC or NOx emissions.

Then you have E10 gasoline, which has poorer energy density than regular fuel, and varying levels of E10 quality causes today's super-sensitive engine control systems to sometimes dump more fuel to prevent knock.

If you want good economy, buy a previous-generation secondhand Honda City 1.3 AT. Or buy a new Altis 1.6 MT... as this is the oldest tech fuel-efficient gasoline engine on the market.

-

The Mazda SkyActiv engine is supposed to be a fantastic piece of kit. Unfortunately, for regions with poor gas quality, they have to lower the compression from 14:1 to 13:1, and regions with even poorer gas (the Philippines) won't get these direct injection engines at all.

If regular engines that require high octane from Honda, Toyota and Hyundai start knocking or idling funny due to the carabao piss they relabel as gasoline in some stations... what more the SkyActiv, which is tuned so finely that changing the stock header can cause it to start knocking unless you dial back the compression ratio?

-

I was laughing at myself a while ago. I put in Unleaded gasoline from another station into the CR-V. Forgot that it prefers Shell Unleaded. The moment I started the engine, it started to idle very roughly. Now I have to add maybe another 500 pesos of Premium fuel to balance it out.

Crap. How stupid I felt.

[jut703]

Hahaha... Actually, Atlis was our first choice last year until the news of the 9th gen civic broke loose. So might as well wait for it.

Takot din ako for altis kasi baka may major facelift na mangyari this year kaya I decided to wait na lang muna.

The Altis has already been facelifted, and it's not usual for Toyota to have 2 facelifts in one model cycle, especially not 2 facelifts with only a short time span in between each other.

I drive an Altis (albeit the pre-facelifted 2.0V) and if you're looking for a comfortable and reliable car, then look no further. It does ride smoother than the Civic, and has much, much better seats when talking about comfort. The interior is also rather homely if you ask me. Sure there's the faux wood (which got uglier in the facelifted model IMO), but the design is simple, elegant and timeless. The 4-speed auto is smooth, but doesn't seem to react quickly enough, even in S-mode. I find that I have to use the paddle shifters practically every time I plan to overtake. But again, if you want comfort, the transmission is great.

The gripes I have with our Altis - no aux/iPod support, 4-speed auto, overly soft suspension (good if you're in the city, bad if you're driving fast in twisty roads) have been rectified with the facelifted 2.0V, though the suspension still isn't as sporty as the others in its class. The 1.6V does retain the old 4-speed auto, but basing from feedback from other users, it's still an efficient combo (~9-10 km/l city driving). In comparison, the 4-speed auto paired with the 2-liter engine does 7-7.5 km/l in the same conditions, while the CVT reportedly does around 9.

In the end, the Altis is actually a great car, if you're appreciating it for what it is. It's not a master of winding roads, but as an everyday car and highway cruiser (esp. the 2.0 version), it does provide high levels of comfort and is rather well-kitted.

As for the competition, I would say that the Elantra is the best all-rounder - priced well, looks gorgeous, rides comfortably but can still handle the twisties, modern interior, and has adequate features. The Civic is also great in my book, despite being due for a model revamp. It's very spacious, and the facelifted version looks great and I would say that it'll age well, not to mention having great drivetrains and handling. The overly hard seats might be a deal-breaker though. It's harder than any car I've driven before, if my memory serves me well.

I'm not sure what particular models you're comparing, but assuming it's the mid-range (i.e. 900-1M) variants and you're looking for an all-rounder compact, I'd rank them as follows:

1) Hyundai Elantra GLS
2) Honda Civic 1.8S
3) Toyota Corolla Altis 1.6V
4) Chevrolet Cruze LS (great competition for the Altis in terms of being a comfortable city cruiser, but has a very slow transmission and isn't as efficient)
5) Mitsubishi Lancer MX (great car, but IMO only in GT or GT-A trim. The fact that it looks so different from the TOTL model really irks me)
6) Mazda 3 1.6V (just too old and thirsty).

[boychikot]

The Elantra... well... I haven't done economy testing with the 1.6 AT, though I do recall the 1.6 MT is somewhat better than the 1.6 AT Fiesta and and Accent in traffic, and 16-18 km/l is possible with a light foot on the highway. What I want to test (and haven't been able to) is if it's possible to hit 20+ km/l on eco-runs.

If heavy traffic is a concern, forget anything automatic with a 1.6. Go straight for a manual 1.3 or 1.4.

Today's new engine designs and heavy compacts really can't approach the efficiency of lighter, older cars with older-tech engines. Pollution controls require them to inject unburned gasoline straight into the catalytic converters to light them off... and/or to keep the throttle open when you let go of the gas pedal to prevent temporary rich or lean conditions which will cause more HC or NOx emissions.

Then you have E10 gasoline, which has poorer energy density than regular fuel, and varying levels of E10 quality causes today's super-sensitive engine control systems to sometimes dump more fuel to prevent knock.

If you want good economy, buy a previous-generation secondhand Honda City 1.3 AT. Or buy a new Altis 1.6 MT... as this is the oldest tech fuel-efficient gasoline engine on the market.

-

The Mazda SkyActiv engine is supposed to be a fantastic piece of kit. Unfortunately, for regions with poor gas quality, they have to lower the compression from 14:1 to 13:1, and regions with even poorer gas (the Philippines) won't get these direct injection engines at all.

If regular engines that require high octane from Honda, Toyota and Hyundai start knocking or idling funny due to the carabao piss they relabel as gasoline in some stations... what more the SkyActiv, which is tuned so finely that changing the stock header can cause it to start knocking unless you dial back the compression ratio?

-

I was laughing at myself a while ago. I put in Unleaded gasoline from another station into the CR-V. Forgot that it prefers Shell Unleaded. The moment I started the engine, it started to idle very roughly. Now I have to add maybe another 500 pesos of Premium fuel to balance it out.

Crap. How stupid I felt.

Thanks for the info sir Niky.

Still prefer AT since my wife's gonna use it 70% of the time.

[boychikot]

The Altis has already been facelifted, and it's not usual for Toyota to have 2 facelifts in one model cycle, especially not 2 facelifts with only a short time span in between each other.

I drive an Altis (albeit the pre-facelifted 2.0V) and if you're looking for a comfortable and reliable car, then look no further. It does ride smoother than the Civic, and has much, much better seats when talking about comfort. The interior is also rather homely if you ask me. Sure there's the faux wood (which got uglier in the facelifted model IMO), but the design is simple, elegant and timeless. The 4-speed auto is smooth, but doesn't seem to react quickly enough, even in S-mode. I find that I have to use the paddle shifters practically every time I plan to overtake. But again, if you want comfort, the transmission is great.

The gripes I have with our Altis - no aux/iPod support, 4-speed auto, overly soft suspension (good if you're in the city, bad if you're driving fast in twisty roads) have been rectified with the facelifted 2.0V, though the suspension still isn't as sporty as the others in its class. The 1.6V does retain the old 4-speed auto, but basing from feedback from other users, it's still an efficient combo (~9-10 km/l city driving). In comparison, the 4-speed auto paired with the 2-liter engine does 7-7.5 km/l in the same conditions, while the CVT reportedly does around 9.

In the end, the Altis is actually a great car, if you're appreciating it for what it is. It's not a master of winding roads, but as an everyday car and highway cruiser (esp. the 2.0 version), it does provide high levels of comfort and is rather well-kitted.

As for the competition, I would say that the Elantra is the best all-rounder - priced well, looks gorgeous, rides comfortably but can still handle the twisties, modern interior, and has adequate features. The Civic is also great in my book, despite being due for a model revamp. It's very spacious, and the facelifted version looks great and I would say that it'll age well, not to mention having great drivetrains and handling. The overly hard seats might be a deal-breaker though. It's harder than any car I've driven before, if my memory serves me well.

I'm not sure what particular models you're comparing, but assuming it's the mid-range (i.e. 900-1M) variants and you're looking for an all-rounder compact, I'd rank them as follows:

1) Hyundai Elantra GLS
2) Honda Civic 1.8S
3) Toyota Corolla Altis 1.6V
4) Chevrolet Cruze LS (great competition for the Altis in terms of being a comfortable city cruiser, but has a very slow transmission and isn't as efficient)
5) Mitsubishi Lancer MX (great car, but IMO only in GT or GT-A trim. The fact that it looks so different from the TOTL model really irks me)
6) Mazda 3 1.6V (just too old and thirsty).

Thanks for the comment sir.

This made me very curious about the Elantra. You drive an Altis and yet you recommend an Elantra. How about its parts? Is it easy to find? cheap? Although wont be needing it in the next three years or more, any idea on them?

This helps me a lot on making a decision which showroom to visit. I actually haven't visited any showroom yet but I have already spoke with SA's from Toyota and Mitsubishi (I've considered ASX and EX although I already took them out of my list). ;)

[loverlionus]

We were in the same situation April of last year, except that the Elantra wasn't available yet. Aside from these cars we also included the Lancer EX (big discount then so almost the same level as your 3 choices) and the hatchbacks (a little lower in prices). I took the spec sheets and features for each car, rated each spec/feature in the level of importance to us, then highlighted the model with the highest feature. Those with the most number of highest features was the top choice. Then we took a look at the models at the dealers, we didn't do any test drives but it would be better if you can do them. We finally chose the Altis 1.6V AT.