V12 Amp trips when volume's raised

[batang_raon14]

Confused whether sa The Workshop ba 'to or sa sounds ipopost, pero since sound-related ang problem, mas maigi siguro dito (panay alternator and other mechanical problems kasi sa The Workshop).

Current config is an all targa setup powered by a V12 705 amp. front seps and tweeter are tapped to channels 1 and 2 while sub (mounted on an ABC box c/o Jeff Tan) is bridged in channels 3 and 4 of the V12 amplifier. Rear fills are directly tapped sa HU. This setup has been on my ride for about 2 years na rin I think.

Anyways, a DJ friend gave me a DVD filled with his club mixes. Given na enjoy ako makinig sa ma-bass na music when on provincial trips, nagustuhan ko yung compilation and set the volume to max (usually do this naman) with windows open sa NLEX. After an hour of playback I think, the front seps and the sub went out, so I'm guessing the amp's protect feature kicked in already and it's a sign na nag-overheat na nga (experience this everytime I exceed around half an hour of listening to music with the volume set at max). Weird thing is, this time around may nangamoy talagang sunog, and I have no clue kung saan nanggaling. So I just turned off the unit in the same way I usually do when it happens and gave the amp an ample time to cool down before I turned it on again.

Hoping na same as usual lang (na after pahingain after going on protect eh oks na), after an hour I turned on my HU. Front seps and tweeter is back naman and so is the sub, but once I try and increase the volume from let's say 20 to 27, nawawala na naman.

So binaklas ko ngayon yung amp and pinacheck sa electrician. Turned out may busted and loose capacitors so pinalitan at hininang. Pagkabit ko channels 1 and 2 meron, pero yung sub wala. So ni-return ko yung amp sa electrician... Pagbalik ulit sa akin, ang sabi eh wala na raw makitang tama sa piyesa. Hinigpitan na lang daw niya yung iba pang pwedeng higpitan sa loob. Kinabit ko uli ngayon, and so far meron na yung lahat ng channels, yun nga lang yung sa sub parang sabog at mahina yung output and nandoon pa rin yung problem na pag ni-raise ko yung volume eh nagti-trip yung amp and the last attempt to keep listening on a steady volume level (yung highest volume na pwede without the amp tripping), may nangamoy sunog na naman. Pero this time around pag-on ko uli ng HU after nung nag-trip at nangamoy sunog, andun pa rin lahat ng channels and as long as di ko taasan yung volume, safe. Yun nga lang wala talagang bass.

Ano kaya possible cause? Mamaya ita-try kong i-disconnect yung sub then try to raise the volume and see if same pa rin ang result eh. Possible kaya yun na may sub is burned and hence causing my amp to go on protect once I try and crank up the volume? Or yung amoy sunog is a sign of wiring problems? Yun nga lang parang di ko magets kung paano magiging wiring problem given na I didn't have any electricals done eversince I had the setup installed. Tingin niyo guys? Sayang kasi if I go and buy parts sabay di naman pala yun yung problema.

[batang_raon14]

UPDATE: tripping doesn't occur when sub is disconnected. However the sub doesn't smell burnt though. Will bring it to the electrician naman at baka sa loob may tama. If di pa rin 'to I'm guessing wiring na (which is definitely weird as di naman nagalaw since ininstall yun).

[yapoy86]

ilipat mo yung sub mo sa channel 1 & 2.. may markings naman dyan on how you will connect the sub in bridged mode pag sabog pa rin ang tunog baka yung sub mo na ang may tama..

papalitan mo na sa electrician mo yung IC transistors nyan ampli mo... for sure may tama na yan prepare mga 1k kasi mahal ang IC transistors.. pa check mo din yung mga malalaking resistor sa ampli mo yan kasi yung madalas na nangangamoy sunog pag may isang resistor na sira kahit palitan mo yung IC transistor masisira lang ulet gawa na shorted na yung resistor..

[batang_raon14]

ilipat mo yung sub mo sa channel 1 & 2.. may markings naman dyan on how you will connect the sub in bridged mode pag sabog pa rin ang tunog baka yung sub mo na ang may tama..

papalitan mo na sa electrician mo yung IC transistors nyan ampli mo... for sure may tama na yan prepare mga 1k kasi mahal ang IC transistors.. pa check mo din yung mga malalaking resistor sa ampli mo yan kasi yung madalas na nangangamoy sunog pag may isang resistor na sira kahit palitan mo yung IC transistor masisira lang ulet gawa na shorted na yung resistor..

Thanks for the heads up. Will try this now Sir.

As per sa amp, everything's good accdg. sa electrician eh. And so far now that the sub's disconnected walang problema with the amp going on protect. So check ko muna 'to to confirm.

[batang_raon14]

Changed from bridged mode in channels 3 and 4 to bridged in channels 1 and 2. Disconnected the seps din muna so as to isolate. Sub lang bali ang pinapatakbo ng amp.

After trying to crank up the volume, ayun protect mode na naman. Binalik ko ngayon yung seps and tanggal naman ang sub. Wala naman and maganda pa nga tunog eh. Yun nga lang walang bass.

Did some research and found this site, and I'll quote in the link:

Problem: Amplifier goes into protect.

Solution: This can be caused by too low of an impedance from the way the speakers
are wired, and sometimes a poor charging system (if the amp goes into protect when the volume is turned up).

It's exactly the problem I'm experiencing once the sub is connected sa amp. I remembered that my car battery is around 2 years old na rin. Is it possible that it's the culprit? However nagiistart pa naman sasakyan ko.

[batang_raon14]

Further update: (di na nakatulog actually at di mapakaling sablay ang setup) further tested, resistance in the output terminals isnt near 0, so that's good. Car battery based on my digital tester's good as well (at 13+), so I'm pretty sure there's nothing wrong with that.

Tried setting the gains of all channels to just 4 o' clock of its dials, HPF and LPF all at 12 o' clock and treble and bass values are all at zero on the amp. Played a tune with a good mix of bass and moderately increased the gain of channels 3 and 4 (bridged for sub), shortly after I get a good increase I hear the sub pumping again just before the amp goes to protect. I then turn off the HU and turn it on again (note: I don't need to wait for x minutes just for the protect to go off like it usually does, off-on lang ng HU oks na uli), and then mess up with the gains of the sub yet again ending up with the same result.

It appears buo ang sub ko, and I'm really betting now na amp ang may tama at either tinatamad yung electrician na hanapin ang problema OR masyadong maraming ginagawa na iba pa. I might borrow some allen screwdrivers, soldering iron, tingga, and what-nots tomorrow to check the transistors and resistors myself. Kapag yun ang problema at aabot nga ng 1K, then perhaps it would be wiser to just buy another set... hassle pag OC sa sounds. lol

[speed unlimited]

Changed from bridged mode in channels 3 and 4 to bridged in channels 1 and 2. Disconnected the seps din muna so as to isolate. Sub lang bali ang pinapatakbo ng amp.

After trying to crank up the volume, ayun protect mode na naman. Binalik ko ngayon yung seps and tanggal naman ang sub. Wala naman and maganda pa nga tunog eh. Yun nga lang walang bass.

Did some research and found this site, and I'll quote in the link:



It's exactly the problem I'm experiencing once the sub is connected sa amp. I remembered that my car battery is around 2 years old na rin. Is it possible that it's the culprit? However nagiistart pa naman sasakyan ko.

Pwedeng Battery kasi malakas kumain ng current ang power amplifier lalo na pag patay makina ng sasakyan . Okay lang naman isang power amplifier para sa stock na alternator . Lagay ka na rin ng grounding kit para stable ang kuryente kahit nakabukas iyong accessory ng sasakyan mo nakakatulong lalo na sa mga may edad na sasakyan. Mas okay sana dalawang power amplifier to power your sep and subwoofer . Para hindi hirap ang amp. para sa subwoofer. suggestion lang.

[batang_raon14]

Pwedeng Battery kasi malakas kumain ng current ang power amplifier lalo na pag patay makina ng sasakyan . Okay lang naman isang power amplifier para sa stock na alternator . Lagay ka na rin ng grounding kit para stable ang kuryente kahit nakabukas iyong accessory ng sasakyan mo nakakatulong lalo na sa mga may edad na sasakyan. Mas okay sana dalawang power amplifier to power your sep and subwoofer . Para hindi hirap ang amp. para sa subwoofer. suggestion lang.

May grounding kit na po Sir. Before nga po dalawang amp ang gamit ko, kaso gawa ng kailangang simplehan ang setup (sub needed to be removable para pag provincial trips at maraming karga tanggal na lang agad). Araneta Car Accessories made me a plug and play box for the sub then advised me to remove the other amp. Ngayon didn't expect the amp to give in so binenta ko na yung spare ko. Sayang.. Will be on my way to a battery shop though kahit oks pa ang reading after work. Doesn't hurt to be sure I guess.

[ednapila]

Confused whether sa The Workshop ba 'to or sa sounds ipopost, pero since sound-related ang problem, mas maigi siguro dito (panay alternator and other mechanical problems kasi sa The Workshop).

Current config is an all targa setup powered by a V12 705 amp. front seps and tweeter are tapped to channels 1 and 2 while sub (mounted on an ABC box c/o Jeff Tan) is bridged in channels 3 and 4 of the V12 amplifier. Rear fills are directly tapped sa HU. This setup has been on my ride for about 2 years na rin I think.

Anyways, a DJ friend gave me a DVD filled with his club mixes. Given na enjoy ako makinig sa ma-bass na music when on provincial trips, nagustuhan ko yung compilation and set the volume to max (usually do this naman) with windows open sa NLEX. After an hour of playback I think, the front seps and the sub went out, so I'm guessing the amp's protect feature kicked in already and it's a sign na nag-overheat na nga (experience this everytime I exceed around half an hour of listening to music with the volume set at max). Weird thing is, this time around may nangamoy talagang sunog, and I have no clue kung saan nanggaling. So I just turned off the unit in the same way I usually do when it happens and gave the amp an ample time to cool down before I turned it on again.

Hoping na same as usual lang (na after pahingain after going on protect eh oks na), after an hour I turned on my HU. Front seps and tweeter is back naman and so is the sub, but once I try and increase the volume from let's say 20 to 27, nawawala na naman.

So binaklas ko ngayon yung amp and pinacheck sa electrician. Turned out may busted and loose capacitors so pinalitan at hininang. Pagkabit ko channels 1 and 2 meron, pero yung sub wala. So ni-return ko yung amp sa electrician... Pagbalik ulit sa akin, ang sabi eh wala na raw makitang tama sa piyesa. Hinigpitan na lang daw niya yung iba pang pwedeng higpitan sa loob. Kinabit ko uli ngayon, and so far meron na yung lahat ng channels, yun nga lang yung sa sub parang sabog at mahina yung output and nandoon pa rin yung problem na pag ni-raise ko yung volume eh nagti-trip yung amp and the last attempt to keep listening on a steady volume level (yung highest volume na pwede without the amp tripping), may nangamoy sunog na naman. Pero this time around pag-on ko uli ng HU after nung nag-trip at nangamoy sunog, andun pa rin lahat ng channels and as long as di ko taasan yung volume, safe. Yun nga lang wala talagang bass.

Ano kaya possible cause? Mamaya ita-try kong i-disconnect yung sub then try to raise the volume and see if same pa rin ang result eh. Possible kaya yun na may sub is burned and hence causing my amp to go on protect once I try and crank up the volume? Or yung amoy sunog is a sign of wiring problems? Yun nga lang parang di ko magets kung paano magiging wiring problem given na I didn't have any electricals done eversince I had the setup installed. Tingin niyo guys? Sayang kasi if I go and buy parts sabay di naman pala yun yung problema.

Bro,

1. Check mo kung tama ang empedance ng speakers mo. Kung masyadong mababa, it will cause an overload so magtrip ang AMP mo. As the speakers get older, possible kasi mag-short konti ang mga windings inside at magchange ang empedance.

2. Trabaho ng electronic technician yan. electricians do not give much attention to details regarding the individual electronic parts. Tama sya... higpit dito...pihit doon... hinang dito... toktok doon...hehhehehe...

3. Ther is an RC combination near the output section that controls the over-delivery of high frequencies into the speakers, as time goes by... laging mataas ang tweeter level mo, nasusunog or partially nagbabago ang RC values. this causes the amp to trip. At extreme cases... or worst, render your V12 AMP useless.... it can cause the Final transistors to SHORT....

4. Try this: Drop the treeble level to MINIMUM... then try raising the volume with your favorite music... Do this after testing your speakers "GOOd"...

[[archie]]

sa tingin ko may tama na yung subs. baka yung protect ng amp comes from short sa subs since kung nalipat from 3 and 4 to 1 and 2 yung seps walang prob. baka lang naman yung subs is inputting variable power na kaya shut down mode yung amp. suggestion lang boss.

pwede rin yung ground niya, try grounding it by cable jumper to the body. kung mawala yung problem, sand down the points of the grounding kit, baka may corrosion na and wala na contact masyado.

good luck sir.

[batang_raon14]

Bro,

1. Check mo kung tama ang empedance ng speakers mo. Kung masyadong mababa, it will cause an overload so magtrip ang AMP mo. As the speakers get older, possible kasi mag-short konti ang mga windings inside at magchange ang empedance.

2. Trabaho ng electronic technician yan. electricians do not give much attention to details regarding the individual electronic parts. Tama sya... higpit dito...pihit doon... hinang dito... toktok doon...hehhehehe...

3. Ther is an RC combination near the output section that controls the over-delivery of high frequencies into the speakers, as time goes by... laging mataas ang tweeter level mo, nasusunog or partially nagbabago ang RC values. this causes the amp to trip. At extreme cases... or worst, render your V12 AMP useless.... it can cause the Final transistors to SHORT....

4. Try this: Drop the treeble level to MINIMUM... then try raising the volume with your favorite music... Do this after testing your speakers "GOOd"...

Thanks for the informative posts Sir. Cannot check the impedance of the speakers pa, but I'll be on it (baklas sidings mode siguro to come weekend). I tried #4 din po, with the sub disconnected walang problem (even if I set the treble level to +12db walang problema actually), once I connect the sub, ayun, protect once the volume level increases.

sa tingin ko may tama na yung subs. baka yung protect ng amp comes from short sa subs since kung nalipat from 3 and 4 to 1 and 2 yung seps walang prob. baka lang naman yung subs is inputting variable power na kaya shut down mode yung amp. suggestion lang boss.

pwede rin yung ground niya, try grounding it by cable jumper to the body. kung mawala yung problem, sand down the points of the grounding kit, baka may corrosion na and wala na contact masyado.

good luck sir.

Sir verify lang po: problem still exists even after swapping the sub's channel from 3 and 4 to 1 and 2. Although yung variable power seems a possible cause, kasi yung power led ng amp nagfi-flicker everytime the sub attempts to produce the bass.

I went to the battery shop after work. They tested my battery and based from them na mismo, good pa ang battery ko. So the problem is pretty much isolated on the sound system na mismo. I also borrowed some tools from a friend and will be opening the amp before/after work later. Ako na mismo magtotoktok, hinang, palit, at pihit ng piyesa. Hehe

[jds]

You mentioned that:
"> Although yung variable power seems a possible cause, kasi yung
> power led ng amp nagfi-flicker everytime the sub attempts to produce the bass."

Maybe what you need is a capacitor:

Use a Huge Capacitor to Sustain Power
A large capacitor is often used to maintain bass amplifier response.

One of the many goals of aftermarket car audio systems is to create a reverberation that exceeds the boundary of the car, shaking other nearby cars and buildings.
Car audio enthusiasts have been using capacitors for years
to make sure their cars go Boom! Boom! without brownouts or voltage sags.
Bass response is the ability of the subwoofer to reproduce the low-frequency
bass sounds in music with fidelity.
One of the problems with subwoofers is that they need a lot of electrical energy to move the large speaker to reproduce the low-frequency bass sound waves. When the bass beat kicks hard, the speaker should instantly slam in response—but often, the car’s battery and electrical system can’t put out enough power to ensure an instant response.

[batang_raon14]

You mentioned that:
"> Although yung variable power seems a possible cause, kasi yung
> power led ng amp nagfi-flicker everytime the sub attempts to produce the bass."

Maybe what you need is a capacitor:

Use a Huge Capacitor to Sustain Power
A large capacitor is often used to maintain bass amplifier response.

One of the many goals of aftermarket car audio systems is to create a reverberation that exceeds the boundary of the car, shaking other nearby cars and buildings.
Car audio enthusiasts have been using capacitors for years
to make sure their cars go Boom! Boom! without brownouts or voltage sags.
Bass response is the ability of the subwoofer to reproduce the low-frequency
bass sounds in music with fidelity.
One of the problems with subwoofers is that they need a lot of electrical energy to move the large speaker to reproduce the low-frequency bass sound waves. When the bass beat kicks hard, the speaker should instantly slam in response—but often, the car’s battery and electrical system can’t put out enough power to ensure an instant response.

Have a 1.0 farad capacitor installed chief. Kaya nakaka-ewan kung ano problema eh.

UPDATE uli: kaninang lunch break I remembered may amplified na 5.1 surround kami sa lounge sa office na walang gumagamit. Binaklas ko on the spot mula kotse yung sub para itest at nirekta ko sa ampli. Oks naman, buong-buo at bumabayo pa. So either amplifier na lang talaga to or may dagang kumagat sa wiring na naka-konekta sa sub. Wala na akong maisip na possible cause eh. Atat na ako so baka mamaya babaklasin ko na rin yung amp at aalamin na talaga ang problema. Hehehe

[jds]

You may want to double-check your capacitor and the power source (battery).
Try to use other battery for testing - just to isolate that.

HTH

[ednapila]

Could you test how many OHMs is your Sub?
Tama ba sa rated markings?

You have a point to suspect the wires... you can try substituting the wires...

What is (ABC box c/o Jeff Tan)? Is that a dividing netwrk?

Can this box be taken out and connect the subs directly to the amps? baka deffective na yan. and might be causing the overload...

The 1 Farad Cap is a power filter. When the batteries are older than 2y/o, it is possble that yoy already have a weak batt.
When you have a weak batt, the CAPacitor charges to over 14 volts. If the supply for your V12 is over 14 volts it can cause the trip also. The tripping should happen only while engine is running, kasi that is the only time the alternator give more than 14 volts...

[batang_raon14]

After 2 days of 12mn to 4am sessions trying to fix it, finally was able to do the following:

1. Replaced bloated caps on the amplifier.
2. Replaced burnt resistors.
3. Mounted and connected all the wires.
4. Sound check...
5. WORKS!

Aside from the replacements done, I also noticed that there was a bit of masking tape that got caught in between one of the wire of the sub connecting to the amp (each wires were marked kasi and we used masking tapes to wrap it on every wire and indicate where it's supposed to be connected to the amp). It's too small to notice and given that the wires are situated beneath the passenger seat, it was harder even to see given there isn't much lighting available aside from a handy flashlight. Took it out and it seemed to be more of the big reason as to why my caps and resistors got busted after it was just recently fixed by our electrician.

The experience is good though given that I was also able to fine tune the HPF's and LPF's of the amp. Sound clarity is much better and the sub doesn't create too much rattle now with its loud thumping. Overall a very irritating and hassle-filled experience, but all the while worth it. Yeah my sounds are back! Haha

Thanks po for all the advices and help. :D

[speed unlimited]

Nice Do it yourself trouble shooting problem on your V12 amplifier. This will be a guide if other member encounter this problem . Anyway enjoy the boom boom on your car.

[jarel]

my v12 trips when i raised the volume my subwoofer is 12"built in amp..pinachek ko na sa electrician wala daw sira subwoofer kasi tinest nya sa battery naka direkta hindi nag trip,pero pag sa kotse ko na lalo na pag umaandar nag trip sya pag raised ko volume.2 weeks old palang battery ko so ok pa sya..and nangyari lang ito nung 6 months old na ung sound system ko ngyon lng nag ganito..ngayon pinapabili ako ng capacitor nung electrician..but many are says di raw need ng capacitor ung V12 na built in amp..pls help me guys