audio set-up for beginners [continued]

[jhnkvn]

tnx sa post ni jhnkvn about deadening and asphalt material.

Audiomax Pro Damper ang brand na pinainstall ko sa Maizone. Naghahanap ako ng unbranded cheap OEM Butyl wala daw puro asphalt lang from candyshop,c3,jaffaz, etc.

Asphalt ba si Audiomax? I kinda forgot na kasi

For asphalt deadeners, I will try to minimize my contact with the sun. In other words, try to have shaded parking as much as possible. Because asphalt literally turns semi-liquid on your door panels if you bake the doors on the sun (alam naman natin kung gaano ka init ang car body kung binabad lang sa araw). Once the time you need to remove your doors and depending on how the asphalt condition, expect it to turn into a smelly and messy removal.

I'm not trying to scare people here just laying down the facts. If let's say you're stuck in 1pm Quiapo traffic with a very nice sun and you smell something while inside the car.. don't panic (well maybe except if it smells like smoke).. if it smells a bit funny (it's hard to describe.. google mo nalang), that's probably your asphalt sheets.

[jhnkvn]

Panalo ka Sir jhnkvn!

How much budget is enough for a decent SQ setup for my car? Please guide me sir.

Here are my plans:
1. Head Unit = Pioneer 4450BT, Question: Can I go wrong with rhis head unit when it comes to SQ?
2. Separates = GTO609
3. Amps for Separates (I still don't have any ideas, Sound Magus? Etc? ) Can you suggest one?

Thank you sir jhnkvn!

For a budget, just focus on tonality. We can forgive zero imaging, zero staging.. but if it sounds horrible.. we all get angry.

Your head unit has a built-in amplifier on it. If you plan on playing loudly, get an external amplifier. If you plan on doing background listening, just use the head unit. An amplifier does what it does -- it amplifies.

Sa totoo, I'm not fickle with amplifiers. People know this of me in car audio circles that's why I have difficulty in recommending amplifiers. Since naka JBL GTO ka na, might as well go full-JBL. What people's "usual" setup is a 4-channel amplifier and a subwoofer (I highly recommend the JBL 12" GT5 subwoofer on a 1 cubic feet (volume) enclosure to save space). Out of the 4-channels, they use two channels for the front left and right speakers and 2-channels (bridged for more power) for the subwoofer.

[jhnkvn]

Sir jhnkvn pahelp naman po. Currently meron akong pioneer 2din HU tsaka jbl 12in subs. And kinetic dynamic kd6 seps. I know it may be not good seps. Sabi kasi sakin nung pinagkuhanan ko is maganda un sound niya like higher end brands na daw. Un amplifier ko is lightning lab am480. Kaso nasira na and i need to change it. Kukuha sana ako sa states ng amp kasi uuwi un mom ko. Suggestions naman po sa budget amp. And probably seps na mura and maganda na rin. Siguro un seps around 4-5k.

Eto mga nakita ko na amp. Baka may idea kayo if sulit kung makuha ko sa price niya sa states kasi di ko alam kung magkano sila dito.

JL audio jx360/4 php6500
medyo mahal pero kung malaki ang difference than rockford fosgate and justified un pagkamahal niya over sa iba, then sige.
JL Audio, USA - JX360/4

Rockford fosgate r300x4 around php5000
Rockford Fosgate R300X4 Prime 4-Channel Amplifier:Amazon:Car Electronics

There's no such thing as a bad "properly designed" speaker. Whether this is affordable or expensive. You simply pay for a speaker for its potential to sound good. It's like.. (well, if we have ladies in the house..) makeup. Affordable and expensive make-up isn't really night and day but the more expensive one has better potential. Kung pangit mukha mo, kahit ano gawin mo pangit ka sa majority (the minority will simply use the "eye of the beholder" excuse bwahaha..) Just look at how many South Koreans are undergoing plastic surgery.

If you're getting JL Audio and Rockfords galing States.. talagang sulit yan. This is because goods coming from the US is expensive in the car audio world thanks to shipping, taxes, and distributor profits. Between the two, I'll get the Rockford. I'm a fan of the JL Audio.. but I'm only limited to the high-end HD lineup ;)

If you want MY recommendation and you want to use Amazon as a baseline, voila! [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-R400-4D-Full-Range-4-Channel/dp/B004T0WFVE/ref=sr_1_10?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1385752705&sr=1-10#productDetails]Amazon.com: Rockford Fosgate R400-4D 400 Watt Full-Range Class-D 4-Channel Amplifier: Car Electronics[/ame]

Class D topologies nowadays are very advanced.. you don't need to worry over them. If some idiot in Banawe tells you maspangit sila, tell them sabi ko maganda In a car, they are THE preferred topology is because of efficiency. That's why kahit ang liit niya, it throws more power than your recommendations. How? Read on.

It's because they're efficient in how they convert electrical energy into mechanical energy. So yeah.. you save energy.. which WILL benefit you by..

In a car that has its engine on.. the energy is supplied by your alternator. If you pose a lower load sa alternator mo, it won't work as hard. Which means.... better fuel efficiency. Maliit lang though.. like 50 pesos a week lang siguro or something (that's a wild estimate btw) but it adds up. If you want a comparison.. in the world of desktop power supplies, isipin mo 80PLUS Gold certified ka versus... wala.. 60% efficient na PSU.

[mikedp5]

There's no such thing as a bad "properly designed" speaker. Whether this is affordable or expensive. You simply pay for a speaker for its potential to sound good. It's like.. (well, if we have ladies in the house..) makeup. Affordable and expensive make-up isn't really night and day but the more expensive one has better potential. Kung pangit mukha mo, kahit ano gawin mo pangit ka sa majority (the minority will simply use the "eye of the beholder" excuse bwahaha..) Just look at how many South Koreans are undergoing plastic surgery.

If you're getting JL Audio and Rockfords galing States.. talagang sulit yan. This is because goods coming from the US is expensive in the car audio world thanks to shipping, taxes, and distributor profits. Between the two, I'll get the Rockford. I'm a fan of the JL Audio.. but I'm only limited to the high-end HD lineup ;)

If you want MY recommendation and you want to use Amazon as a baseline, voila! Amazon.com: Rockford Fosgate R400-4D 400 Watt Full-Range Class-D 4-Channel Amplifier: Car Electronics

Class D topologies nowadays are very advanced.. you don't need to worry over them. If some idiot in Banawe tells you maspangit sila, tell them sabi ko maganda In a car, they are THE preferred topology is because of efficiency. That's why kahit ang liit niya, it throws more power than your recommendations. How? Read on.

It's because they're efficient in how they convert electrical energy into mechanical energy. So yeah.. you save energy.. which WILL benefit you by..

In a car that has its engine on.. the energy is supplied by your alternator. If you pose a lower load sa alternator mo, it won't work as hard. Which means.... better fuel efficiency. Maliit lang though.. like 50 pesos a week lang siguro or something (that's a wild estimate btw) but it adds up. If you want a comparison.. in the world of desktop power supplies, isipin mo 80PLUS Gold certified ka versus... wala.. 60% efficient na PSU.

Wow! Thanks sa reply. Malaki po ba difference nitong class D r400 sa class A/B na r300? In terms of un sound quality? And enough po ba un specs niya to power kinetic kd6 and sub? Sabi kasi un speakers ko is 80w rms daw. Un sa r400 is enough siguro kasi 75w rms un. Pero if un r300, 50w rms lang, enough po ba un? Difference is about 10% efficiency ata between the 2 at 4-oms.

And also, so un jl audio is hindi maganda compared sa rockford fosgate kasi hindi from the HD lineup?

[jhnkvn]

Wow! Thanks sa reply. Malaki po ba difference nitong class D r400 sa class A/B na r300? In terms of un sound quality? And enough po ba un specs niya to power kinetic kd6 and sub? Sabi kasi un speakers ko is 80w rms daw. Un sa r400 is enough siguro kasi 75w rms un. Pero if un r300, 50w rms lang, enough po ba un? Difference is about 10% efficiency ata between the 2 at 4-oms.

And also, so un jl audio is hindi maganda compared sa rockford fosgate kasi hindi from the HD lineup?

Pay no regard to RMS ratings. They don't accurately tell you how much power you need. They simply tell you "how much power can I eat before I get damaged".

When listening to background music, you're using less than 20W. 75W is more than enough for most people.

JL Audio is well-reputed.. however masgusto ko si Rockford when it comes to the more wallet-friendly prices. The JL HD-series however is one of my more favorite amplifiers. Small footprint, lots of power, lots of channels too, and it's very efficient -- too bad it costs something like 70k locally.

[X-salta]

For a budget, just focus on tonality. We can forgive zero imaging, zero staging.. but if it sounds horrible.. we all get angry.

Your head unit has a built-in amplifier on it. If you plan on playing loudly, get an external amplifier. If you plan on doing background listening, just use the head unit. An amplifier does what it does -- it amplifies.

Sa totoo, I'm not fickle with amplifiers. People know this of me in car audio circles that's why I have difficulty in recommending amplifiers. Since naka JBL GTO ka na, might as well go full-JBL. What people's "usual" setup is a 4-channel amplifier and a subwoofer (I highly recommend the JBL 12" GT5 subwoofer on a 1 cubic feet (volume) enclosure to save space). Out of the 4-channels, they use two channels for the front left and right speakers and 2-channels (bridged for more power) for the subwoofer.

Salamat po sir, so habang wala pa akong pambili ng subs and ampli pede na muna ang head unit and yung separates na preferred ko? Malaking tulong ka sir! Sa uulitin ha :-)


Sent from my MediaPad 7 Lite using Tapatalk

[mikedp5]

Pay no regard to RMS ratings. They don't accurately tell you how much power you need. They simply tell you "how much power can I eat before I get damaged".

When listening to background music, you're using less than 20W. 75W is more than enough for most people.

JL Audio is well-reputed.. however masgusto ko si Rockford when it comes to the more wallet-friendly prices. The JL HD-series however is one of my more favorite amplifiers. Small footprint, lots of power, lots of channels too, and it's very efficient -- too bad it costs something like 70k locally.

May idea po ba kayo how much un r300x4 dito or un r400-d4 ng rockford? And also sa sound quality between these 3 (rockford fosgate r300, r400, jl audio jx360/4), may difference ba sila? How big?

[RC-V]

Asphalt ba si Audiomax? I kinda forgot na kasi

Butyl yung Audiomax, talagang naghanap ako ng hindi asphalt, para na din sa durability sa hot weather natin tuwing summer kahit medyo costly. 700~800/sheet Audiomax (butyl w/aluminum sheet) yung mga nacanvass ko not including labor.

btw 5 sheets nagamit.

[mikedp5]

anyone knows kung ano un quality ng sound deadener na kinakabit ni sir jeff tan? di ko kasi alam na may mga qualities pa pala to. So I could know if asphalt un para I could take caution sa init ng araw. He charged me 1800 for a pair of front doors. anyone knows? thanks.

[RC-V]

yung Acoustic Pad na brand na gamit nya nakalagay sa sulit Asphalt daw ito. Baka mayroon pa siyang other brand na hindi asphalt.


nakalagay sa sulit from tedtamayo

* Odorless kasi asphalt made at dumaan sa tamang process, di tulad ng butyl deadening na purely made of rubber mabaho pag nainitan,,,,,

tama ba nakaadvertise?

[mikedp5]

yung Acoustic Pad na brand na gamit nya nakalagay sa sulit Asphalt daw ito. Baka mayroon pa siyang other brand na hindi asphalt.


nakalagay sa sulit from tedtamayo

* Odorless kasi asphalt made at dumaan sa tamang process, di tulad ng butyl deadening na purely made of rubber mabaho pag nainitan,,,,,

tama ba nakaadvertise?

So need ko wag masyado sa initan un doors ko kasi baka magmelt un deadener from sir jeff tan?

[mikedp5]

Quick choice here guys, kasi nakakita ko ng mga good amps from backreading. well magkakaprice lang sila around 6500 kung kukunin ko from states.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/PowerBass-ASA600-4X-Full-Range-200-Watt/dp/B002WC7RBY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385893706&sr =1-1&keywords=ASA600"]PowerBass ASA600.4X Full Range 200-Watt x 4 AB Amp[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-PBR300X4-4-Channel-Amplifier/dp/B004T163SY/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385893947&sr =1-2&keywords=rockford+fosgate+amplifier"]Rockford Fosgate PBR300X4 Punch BRT 300-Watt Ultra Compact 4-Channel Amplifier[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Rockford-Fosgate-R400-4D-Full-Range-4-Channel/dp/B004T0WFVE/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385893949&sr =1-4&keywords=rockford+fosgate+amplifier"]Rockford Fosgate R400-4D 400 Watt Full-Range Class-D 4-Channel Amplifier[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/JX360-Audio-4-Channel-Class-Amplifier/dp/B004MLXWSK/ref=sr_1_4?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1385894023&sr=1-4&keywords=jl+audio"]JX360/4 - JL Audio 4-Channel 360W Class A/B Amplifier[/ame] = medyo alanganin to kasi hindi amazon nagbebenta kaya medyo not leaned on ako dito.

Any suggestion if MTX Audio and SoundStream are good alternatives too?

Which is the best among these amps? well, other than the r400d is a class D amp. by sound quality and overall quality? thanks.

[RC-V]

*mikedp5

based on post of jhnkvn mas better ang asphalt than butyl. kaya butyl na kinuha ko para in the long run wala ng sakit ng ulo na babaklasin at lalagyan ulit.

my next project is HU.

[jhnkvn]

Salamat po sir, so habang wala pa akong pambili ng subs and ampli pede na muna ang head unit and yung separates na preferred ko? Malaking tulong ka sir! Sa uulitin ha :-)

Sent from my MediaPad 7 Lite using Tapatalk

Yep. Go with the project na

May idea po ba kayo how much un r300x4 dito or un r400-d4 ng rockford? And also sa sound quality between these 3 (rockford fosgate r300, r400, jl audio jx360/4), may difference ba sila? How big?

Truth be told, mahirap malaman yun "sound quality" ng mga amplifiers. It's just that the industry conditions your mind that more expensive is better. In a blind test, it's very hard to differentiate one amplifier from another as long as the parameters are nearly equal.

If I will give a tip in amplifier buying is that: (1) stick with reputed brands and (2) power is king. #1 is there kasi kahit ano gawin mo, it's better to tell your friend that Amplifier X is a branded amplifier coming from Y country kaysa "hindi pare, generic lang yan." It also gives you a peace of mind that your amplifier passes strict quality control standards. #2 is there is because kahit ano gawin mo, power is king. I usually don't look at the watts coming from 4 ohms but rather 2 ohms. It indicates the quality of the power supply section of the amplifier -- arguably the most important section inside.

[jhnkvn]

yung Acoustic Pad na brand na gamit nya nakalagay sa sulit Asphalt daw ito. Baka mayroon pa siyang other brand na hindi asphalt.


nakalagay sa sulit from tedtamayo

* Odorless kasi asphalt made at dumaan sa tamang process, di tulad ng butyl deadening na purely made of rubber mabaho pag nainitan,,,,,

tama ba nakaadvertise?

Nah. Wrong advertising

*mikedp5

based on post of jhnkvn mas better ang asphalt than butyl. kaya butyl na kinuha ko para in the long run wala ng sakit ng ulo na babaklasin at lalagyan ulit.

my next project is HU.

It's the opposite. I prefer butyl over asphalt.

-----

For those who want additional information on deadening. Butyl doesn't guarantee you a more effective damper.. but it does guarantee you peace of mind at the expense of additional cost.

Many deadening manufacturers still use asphalt. This is because, kahit ano gawin mo, many buyers are conscious of cost and less on the quality especially when most of them are uninformed ("deadening is deadening"). For one, the original Dynamat (arguably the most famous deadener brand out there) used asphalt before they introduced the Dynamat Extreme which is made of butyl and aluminum (like StandartPlast/StP). I believe they have since discontinued the use of asphalt-based Dynamats.

The main argument of going for butyl is that asphalt has a low melting point compared to butyl. Even the lowest-grade butyl can withstand temperatures more than 100C. On the other hand, asphalt generally starts melting from 90-100C. Now, this is a high temperature to reach but it's possible in our climate because this is metal we're talking about -- it absorbs heat like crap.

It's not really uncommon to hear some horror stories regarding asphalt deadeners. If exposed to heat, it'll turn gooey.. like this photo:



And trust me, removing that goo is a literal pain in the ass if you will have your panel removed. The lower-grade asphalt emits a smell.. but higher-grade asphalt are more or less unoffensive when melted.

[jhnkvn]

Quick choice here guys, kasi nakakita ko ng mga good amps from backreading. well magkakaprice lang sila around 6500 kung kukunin ko from states.

PowerBass ASA600.4X Full Range 200-Watt x 4 AB Amp

Rockford Fosgate PBR300X4 Punch BRT 300-Watt Ultra Compact 4-Channel Amplifier

Rockford Fosgate R400-4D 400 Watt Full-Range Class-D 4-Channel Amplifier

JX360/4 - JL Audio 4-Channel 360W Class A/B Amplifier = medyo alanganin to kasi hindi amazon nagbebenta kaya medyo not leaned on ako dito.

Any suggestion if MTX Audio and SoundStream are good alternatives too?

Which is the best among these amps? well, other than the r400d is a class D amp. by sound quality and overall quality? thanks.

Soundstream is a very good amplifier brand too. They were more famous before in the 1990s but they're less known nowadays. Their Tarantula series are being used by local installers at times.

Among the 4 amplifiers, I will rate Powerbass ASA600.4X as the #1 and Rockford R400D as #2. Powerbass is #1 is because power is king. I'll take 100W over 75W anytime! It's like horsepower -- more is better generally.

Actually, all 4 amplifiers are Class D topology designs. Since 2011, many amplifier manufacturers have moved from the more classic Class A/B designs to Class D as they reap the benefits of more power and better efficiency in a smaller amplifier footprint.

[RC-V]

It's the opposite. I prefer butyl over asphalt.

opps, na mali, naduling ang pagtype ko. same here i was conviced on your post to get butyl over asphalt.

[X-salta]

Out of the 4-channels, they use two channels for the front left and right speakers and 2-channels (bridged for more power) for the subwoofer.

Good day sir! anu po ang use ng head unit na may 3-RCA compared sa 2 and single RCA out. TIA!

[jhnkvn]

Good day sir! anu po ang use ng head unit na may 3-RCA compared sa 2 and single RCA out. TIA!

They simply indicate flexibility. Sa mga mga ganito, more = better.

Okay, for a more in-depth post, most good head units come with 3 pre-out RCAs that are divided into three sections: Front (Left and Right), Rear (Left and Right), and Subwoofer. The more budget ones from Pioneer and equivalent comes with 1-2 pre-outs which usually is either Front (Left and Right) only or Front + Rear.

It is hard to generalize that pre-outs limits the number of amplifiers you can use since you can have external processors, Y-connectors, etc. to further "expand" your external amplifiers.

[mikedp5]

sir jhnkvn, bout sa seps sir? nagtanong tanong kasi ako ng seps around 4k-5k, someone quoted me for JBL 609c for about 4.8k. Tinignan ko online sa amazon, it was priced for $230++. Twice ng price dito. Legit kaya tong 609c na binibigay sakin? Or too good to be true?