Why no proper coupe for BMW?

[van_wilder]

TARGET MARKET...

whats the target market of BMW?
whats the image they want to project?

SHEER DRIVING PLEASURE and ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE...

for whom? for the rich people... more of luxurious driving experience than adrenaline rush...

[squala]

Of course I know the M Coupe and Roadster before, but like the current Z4, they competed with the Porsche Boxster. Perhaps they'll come out with a Z4 coupe to fight the Cayman and hopefully an M version of both.

But the topic here is a 911 competitor, and the Boxster and Cayman are a level down that car. One of you said BMW can just sell engines to manufacturers that want to create a 911 rival, but why not do it themselves? Besides, they're supposed to be the ultimate driving machine, right? With that Porsche around, I think they have yet to fulfill that slogan with a true purist's car.

[BlueBimmer]

Perhaps they'll come out with a Z4 coupe to fight the Cayman and hopefully an M version of both.

"Official: in june 2006 the arrival of the BMW Z4 and Z4M Coupe"

"Engine-wise, it's certain that the Z4 Coupè will have the three most performing 6 inlines of the Z4 Roadster range: the 2.5i (231 hp), the 3.0i (265 hp) and the 3.2 Motorsport with 343 hp on the Z4M Coupè"

the Z4 M Coupe isnt 'hopefully' coming, it IS coming very soon

[van_wilder]

Of course I know the M Coupe and Roadster before, but like the current Z4, they competed with the Porsche Boxster. Perhaps they'll come out with a Z4 coupe to fight the Cayman and hopefully an M version of both.

But the topic here is a 911 competitor, and the Boxster and Cayman are a level down that car. One of you said BMW can just sell engines to manufacturers that want to create a 911 rival, but why not do it themselves. Besides, they're supposed to be the ultimate driving machine, right? With that Porsche around, I think they have yet to fulfill that slogan with a true purist's car.

brand management... they want people to think of BMW as a luxurious brand rather than a porsche rival... they want the whole BMW concept to be luxury... thats why yachting and golf are the only ones in their lifestyle shop... and yun mga events na sponsored nila pansin mo puro pang-rich...

the question is not whether they can do it or not... but, if by doing it would it be harmful or beneficial for the brand?

imagine this, salvatorre ferragamo would make boots for delta force soldiers to show the world how durable his shoes are... they are not just stylish and classic but durable as well... none of his market would care, it would be harmful for the brand, clients would shy away from his brand...

if they would make a 911 rival... would it be more profitable and beneficial for the company in the long-run? does the target market want it?

i dunno... but their survey and marketing research says they dont need one...

[BlueBimmer]

e kung baliktarin natin, how come Porsche doesnt have a proper luxury car like the 7 series? hehe

how come Porsche doesnt have a proper fast saloon like the M5?

[theveed]

I repeat po, coz it's not worth it and Porsche is not their competitor.

It's like asking why Ferrari doesn't come out with a SUV to match the Cayenne.
Why BMW doesn't come up with a car to battle with the Camry/Accord in mid engine sales...
Or any Euro brand to come up a pickup to match the F150 Lightning.

It's not their market nor their goals.

Lastly, how many rear mounted boxer engine competitor there is regardless of brand???

[empy]

hey if you promise to buy enough units to cover their R&D, production line and other sunk costs, i'm sure they'll be more than willing to build it for you

[BlueBimmer]

^wow bigtime!

[wren]

The defunct Z8 had enough to go head-to-head with a Ferrari 360, but for some reason, it didn't draw as many fans as expected.

there lies your answer...

[squala]

there lies your answer...

That's probably because the Z8 was simply not a likeable car. It certainly had the potential, but for one thing, it isn't beautiful. A lot of rich people would choose the Ferrari just for sheer styling. The flagship roadster also didn't seem to be marketed very well. In a James Bond film, it was only driven a bit and chopped into half. So how were they supposed to win fans over?

On the other hand, it's a good thing the Z4 coupe is coming, with a choice of powerful engines to combat the Cayman.

Now going back to the 'Z6' I was talking about, it's more like filling the slot between the Z4 and the Z8, with the engine choices of the 6-Series, but smaller, lighter, more agile, and sharper. Like I said, the 6-Series itself is too big to be a pure GT despite being marketed as such. It's closer to a luxury 2-door than a true sports car. And personally, it isn't really justifiable over a 5-Series. The M6, for instance, is around 15K pounds more expensive than an M5, with only slightly better performance, if any. You also don't have to worry about letting people work themselves in and out of the rear seats in the sedan. I like the 5-Series styling better as well.

[theveed]

^^^ O nga no...

[BlueBimmer]

no fans no profit hehe

[Bry]

The upcoming Z4 //M coupe comes to mind.

Or the already existing //M Z4 (with the current //M3's engine).

[mazdamazda]

Here, I'm talking about a Porsche 911 rival. They make brilliant engines and chassis, but missed out on one model that could have been a proper GT. The 911 Carrera S can beat an M6 in a twisty road despite the latter having over a hundred hp more.

Btw, I think that you already answered your question on your first paragraph.

In terms of pricing... the 911's closest rival is the 6-series... whether the 645i or the wicked M6. Plus, the 6-series is really being marketed as the GT car of BMW.

In terms of performance, the M6 wouldn't be that far off from the Carrera. Flatout the Carrera might beat the M6, but can the Carrera carry 4 passengers and their luggages for a weekend getaway in Monte Carlo?

As one magazine said... the 6-series is practical with a dash of sportiness... while the 911 is sporty with a dash of practicality. So, you choose - practicality or performance.

[squala]

If you watched a recent Top Gear episode, they compared a 911 Carrera S to an M6 and the new Aston V8. The Porsche had less power, but perfect chassis balance and a smaller, lighter body got it through a twisty mountain road around 10 seconds quicker than the BMW, which had more than 100 hp. They quoted that it's not just power, but power you can use. By the way, the Porsche is the cheapest.

What I'm getting at here is that BMW can do it, and why not try? They've got the technology anyway. Porsche itself tried to cater to others with the Cayenne, but it's a joint venture with Volkswagen. BMW need not tie up with any other manufacturer to build a mid-class GT.

Yes, they did reach out to others who wanted a BMW but cannot quite afford, so they designed the 1-Series. But who would want (or need) a RWD hatch in the first place? Hatch buyers want practicality, both in acquiring and maintaining, but the small BMW isn't exactly cheap in either aspects. It's also not that spacious, doesn't ride so nicely with run-flat tires that are made standard to do away with the space-consuming spare. In short, it's a sports car, and people who have enough to buy a 1-Series will settle with something else, perhaps a Mini, which is also co-created by BMW.

It's all about building the right models for the right people.

[empy]

maybe i can humbly reiterate what theveed, fxt, mazdamazda and others have already said:

1. it costs a lot of money (hundreds of millions? a billion?) to design a new car model from the ground up
2. they tried both high-priced (Z8) and mid-priced (M coupe) GT's. both failed miserably.
3. they are doing great with their bread-and-butter, the sport/luxury sedans (3, 5 and 7 series)
4. a car manufacturer cannot be everything to everyone and still make money.
5. yes, bmw has the tech to make a great GT car, but because of reasons 1, 2, 3 and 4 above, they choose not to. maybe someday when everybody is buying GT's like they're buying SUV's now, and their market research says they should take a billion-euro risk, they might do so...but not now.

they really have no reason to

[Hero33]

Mercedes and BMW both concentrate on luxury, but they deviate from there. BMW goes for the sportier drive, hence the Ultimate driving machine and why the 7 series is a bit firmer than an S Class. Benz on the other hand is luxury and comfort. Thats why a CL or S class benzs feels a bit more detached than a relative BMW. The M6 is the direct competitor of BMW for the Porsche.

Market wise at least.

I think the Z8 was beautiful. I remember it being entered in some Museum for it. It's lines so sinuous has no end in the car.

BUT it was more of a muscle car than sport.

Why not the M3 CSL?

The Porsche is just unique I think.

[squala]

About the Bugatti Veyron, its makers didn't actually profit from it. I watched Top Gear yesterday and it was said that the car was made because they wanted to find out if a 1000 hp car was indeed possible. It was a long, expensive process though. Two V8s spliced to become a W16 and 4 turbos = over 400 km/h!

As for BMW, making a real GT isn't just about profit, but also about showing the world they really could. Besides, they're in F1, and this year, they're a complete works team. already. For me, they will even gain more credibility in their products.

[Wouie]

what's a proper coupe. alam ko basta 2 doors na sports ang dating coupe ang tawag.

[theveed]

You can probably ask why BMW/MB doesn't make a $15000 econo car... they have the technology...

Answer will be pretty close to why they wouldn't build a non-gt coupe.